Originally posted by Rampant oxIt was the RotS novel that stated Dooku's knowledge of Ataru, fyi Rampant. 😛
Of course he could pwn them. I dont remember the exact quote, but it talked about how Dooku knew all about the 'foolish acrobatics' of Ataru (might have been in the RotS Novel). It made it very clear that Dooku knew how to effectively destroy an Ataru practicioner. TPM Kenobi is practically a non factor. Dooku pwned [b]RotS Kenobi with the force, I dont see how his younger and far less experienced self will fair any better. [/B]
Originally posted by darthsith19
I seriously doubt that Dooku would [b]pwn Qui-Gon and TPM Obi-Wan at the same time, but he would probably win. Not at full strength Maul nearly did it, he had a double-bladed lightsaber, though, but still, I see no pwnage in Dooku vs. those 2.Which Boba is this? [/B]
I seriously don't. Look, if he sends out a push against both, neither of them has the force strength to parry it, and both will fly away. Doesn't matter if there are two of them, this is one padawan who has shown almost NOTHING in the force, and a master who hasn't really shown any impressive strength in force combat. This is against a Lord of the Sith, one of the best that is. He is not TO far from Yoda and Sidious as well.
He could easily toss away one before they even get close to him, and during the fight he could hit one with lightning (like he did Bulq), or just purley outmatch them in saber fighting, seeing how he kept both Rots Obi-Wan and Anakin at bay, who would pwn Qui-Gon and Obi at this state. Maul had a double bladed saber, yes, but Dooku doesn't need that, seeing how he could keep the other two mentioned above at bay for a while.
In pure saber it won't be pwnage, but it won't be pure saber, he could take them out any second.
I really want to say that Qui Gon and Boba could beat Dooku, but, I don't think that's the case. Boba could be put out of the fight instantly by lightning or a choke, maybe serving as enough of a distraction for Qui Gon to make it to melee, and be completely put on his ass. The ROTS Novel makes it clear that Dooku knows Ataru like the back of his hand, plus whatever spins Qui Gon might put on his own personal use of it, seeing as how Dooku taught Qui Gon and sparred with him literally thousands of times.
Maybe they could pull like... 4/10 if there were no offensive force powers allowed or Dooku wanted more of a challenge, maybe even take the majority, seeing as how Makashi isn't the best against blasters, plus he'd be under pressure from Qui Gon...
Is it actually a fact that Makashi isn't good against blasters, or is it just one of the things that they wanted to even out the style in KOTOR?
I seriously don't see why it would be. Dooku is still trained in other styles, has damn good pre-cog and has defended against many blasters for sure, I don't see him having a hard time at all.
Originally posted by kamikz
Is it actually a fact that Makashi isn't good against blasters, or is it just one of the things that they wanted to even out the style in KOTOR?I seriously don't see why it would be. Dooku is still trained in other styles, has damn good pre-cog and has defended against many blasters for sure, I don't see him having a hard time at all.
It doesn't have the same devestating effect that it does in melee, and while Dooku is still very skilled and has blocked all sorts of shots before, this is Boba fett.
Originally posted by darthsith19
No.
ROTS Kenobi uses a defensive form, so Dooku had many opportunities to use the Force. TPM Kenobi fought with offense, thus he could attack Dooku to keep him from using the Force.
DS, your kidding yourself, to think Padawan Kenobi could do anything to Dooku, and all what form he used, he got pwnd by Dooku twice b/c Dooku is so much more powerful than him, and wasn't ROTS Kenobi trying to attack Dooku when he got tossed? Kenobi as a padawan would be a complete non-factor, then Qui-Gon and Dooku would fight, and Dooku would beat him easily.
I seriously don't. Look, if he sends out a push against both, neither of them has the force strength to parry it, and both will fly away.
Doesn't matter if there are two of them, this is one padawan who has shown almost NOTHING in the force, and a master who hasn't really shown any impressive strength in force combat.
This is against a Lord of the Sith, one of the best that is. He is not TO far from Yoda and Sidious as well.
He could easily toss away one before they even get close to him
and during the fight he could hit one with lightning (like he did Bulq)
seeing how he kept both Rots Obi-Wan and Anakin at bay
Maul had a double bladed saber, yes, but Dooku doesn't need that, seeing how he could keep the other two mentioned above at bay for a while.
In pure saber it won't be pwnage, but it won't be pure saber, he could take them out any second.
DS, your kidding yourself, to think Padawan Kenobi could do anything to Dooku, and all what form he used, he got pwnd by Dooku twice b/c Dooku is so much more powerful than him, and wasn't ROTS Kenobi trying to attack Dooku when he got tossed? Kenobi as a padawan would be a complete non-factor, then Qui-Gon and Dooku would fight, and Dooku would beat him easily.
Originally posted by darthsith19
He's going to Force Push them both at once? What if they try to Force Push him first? I doubt it will be that simple, or AOTC Anakin and Kenobi would have been gone in seconds.Qui-Gon taught himself how to become a Force Ghost, even Yoda couldn't teach himself that. Proves that Jinn is very strong with the Force. Kenobi kept up with him when they were using Force Speed to run from the droideka's, he jumped very high, Force Pushed battle droids, ect.
Jinn is one of the strongest Jedi of his era as well, and Kenobi's damn strong for a Padawan. Together they make a perfect team. Dooku isn't that close to Yoda or Sidious, either, against Yoda in the Force duel Yoda seemed to be casually blocking all his attacks, he never seemed to be struggling at all as he was with Sidious.
Is that why he didn't do that against Tholme and Bulq, is that why he was only able to do that when he went up against Anakin and Kenobi in AOTC because Anakin rushed in rashly?
Yes, however he wasn't able to do that right away, he had to do it when Sora had his defenses down. That took any unknown amount of time since we don't see ihe beginning of the fight, for all we know it could have taken him several minutes to get to that point in the duel.
Yes, for what? A minute? And then (and I can quote the script if need be) he was getting tired and was forced to use the Force to dispsoe of Kenobi. Then Anakin took him out in 30 seconds. Lets not kid ourselves, Dooku wasn't going to last much longer in pure saber combat either way.
Yes, your right, it is possible to fight two people at once without a double-bladed lightsaber, but let's not kid ourselves, having a double-bladed lightsaber when fighting two opponents at once is an advantage, however slight.
He could take them out any second with the Force? if that's true, then how come he didn't take AOTC Anakin or Kenobi out any second with the Force when he fought them [b]one on one
? If he couldn't do it in one on one combat I don't see how he could do it here, unless you're proposing that AOTC Anakin > TPM Jinn and Kenobi at the same time.Did I ever say that Padawan Kenobi could do anything to Dooku? No, he could atatck him with a blade to stop him from using the Force, though. Yes, Dooku is a lot more pwoerful than he is, but it's not like it's going to be over in one second or anything, AOTC Anakin lasted 50 some seconds against Dooku and TPM Kenobi is just a little bit behind AOTC Anakin. If Kenobi was trying to attack him then he wasn't very quick at it, remember than he hardly ever uses offense so he's not that great at it, he mostly uses Soresu which is all defense. [/B]
DS, no, just NO. He didn't defeat AOTC Anakin and Kenobi, because he wanted them to see, how powerful he was, this is from Labyrinth of Evil
Obi-Wan folded his arms. "I've thought long and hard about that day, Master, and I believe Dooku couldn't help revealing himself - - even though he may have regretted it. When he was fleeing for his ship, it was almost as if he allowed himself to be seen; almost as if he was attempting to draw us into an engagement. -Kenobi
But my instincts tell me that he wanted desperately to demonstrate how powerful he had become. I think he was genuinely surprised to see you turn up. But instead of killing Anakin or me, he deliberately left us alive,
to send a message to the Jedi." "Right you are, Obi-Wan. Pride undid him. Forced him, it did, to show us his true face. -Kenobi and Yoda
And so what if Qui-Gon taught himself that and Yoda couldn't, what does this help him in combat. Yoda is still allot better combatant, then Jinn.
But he still did it to Sora, he can do it in a fight with Qui-Gon and Kenobi as well, it would just take some time to set it up, especially because TPM Kenobi is very naive.
He was getting tired mostly because of Anakins strikes and Anakin is the best ligtsaber fighter in the movies.
Having a double-bladed sabers isn't always an a advantage, in small areas, it could be a disadvantage and Dooku is better dualist then Maul, by some margin.
AOTC Anakin is better by TPM kenobi by great margin, AOTC Anakin gave Dooku a hard time, TPM Kenobi would get demolished. And TPM Kenobi was a Ataru user, like his master, he switched styles after.
DS, no, just NO. He didn't defeat AOTC Anakin and Kenobi, because he wanted them to see, how powerful he was, this is from Labyrinth of Evil
Okay, yes, and how would owning them both in seconds not show how powerful he was?
And so what if Qui-Gon taught himself that and Yoda couldn't, what does this help him in combat. Yoda is still allot better combatant, then Jinn.
But he still did it to Sora, he can do it in a fight with Qui-Gon and Kenobi as well, it would just take some time to set it up, especially because TPM Kenobi is very naive.
He was getting tired mostly because of Anakins strikes and Anakin is the best ligtsaber fighter in the movies.
Having a double-bladed sabers isn't always an a advantage, in small areas, it could be a disadvantage and Dooku is better dualist then Maul, by some margin.
AOTC Anakin is better by TPM kenobi by great margin, AOTC Anakin gave Dooku a hard time, TPM Kenobi would get demolished. And TPM Kenobi was a Ataru user, like his master, he switched styles after.
No, he is greater, but by a small margin. Anakin would get pwnd by TPM Kenobi and Jinn, 2 on 1. He would lose to Jinn alone as well.
Oh, I agree, however, what I was trying to say is that he won't be able to do it right away to one of them and then own the other in seconds.
Dooku owned him as a master and that was with ROTS Anakin on him as well, who in a duel is much stronger than Jinn, Kenobi got force pushed hard first and then tried to attack Dooku, and got thrown across the room, i don't know how you figure that as a padawan, he could even pose Dooku any threat at all. Kenobi could swing at him and the Dooku could just back up and do excatly what he did to him in ROTS, but much easier, since ROTS Kenobi is so powerful and TPM Kenobi was not that powerful.
No, it was the combined efforts of Kenobi and Anakin that wore him out, seeing as he was getting tired before he disposed of Kenobi.Where does it say that? In the novel, its describe than when hes fighting Anakin alone, it takes all his efforts just to block the blows b/c their so hard. Kenobi did not excatly take alot out of him in that duel, since he was out of it in less than a minute.
No, he is greater, but by a small margin.Its not that small of a margin, considering hes a better swordsman and stronger in the force.
Originally posted by jollyjim311
It doesn't have the same devestating effect that it does in melee, and while Dooku is still very skilled and has blocked all sorts of shots before, this is Boba fett.
I never argued that, I argued wether it was not effective or outright bad against blasters, which I believe only KOTOR made up to make the gameplay style of Makashi have a weakness.
Well, Makashi is designed for saber duels only, the Jedi have been drooping it for some time before the PT for other forms, because there wore no opponents to fight with sabers, all of their opponents had blasters. Maybe Makashi isn't bad against blaster, (it also depends on a user, how good he is), but it is the last preferred form against blasters.
Dooku owned him as a master and that was with ROTS Anakin on him as well, who in a duel is much stronger than Jinn, Kenobi got force pushed hard first and then tried to attack Dooku, and got thrown across the room, i don't know how you figure that as a padawan, he could even pose Dooku any threat at all. Kenobi could swing at him and the Dooku could just back up and do excatly what he did to him in ROTS, but much easier, since ROTS Kenobi is so powerful and TPM Kenobi was not that powerful.
Where does it say that? In the novel, its describe than when hes fighting Anakin alone, it takes all his efforts just to block the blows b/c their so hard. Kenobi did not excatly take alot out of him in that duel, since he was out of it in less than a minute.
Posted more than just the first sentance so that it is clear I didn't make it up. The first sentence could easily be forged.
Its not that small of a margin, considering hes a better swordsman and stronger in the force.
Originally posted by darthsith19
He's going to Force Push them both at once? What if they try to Force Push him first? I doubt it will be that simple, or AOTC Anakin and Kenobi would have been gone in seconds.Qui-Gon taught himself how to become a Force Ghost, even Yoda couldn't teach himself that. Proves that Jinn is very strong with the Force. Kenobi kept up with him when they were using Force Speed to run from the droideka's, he jumped very high, Force Pushed battle droids, ect.
Jinn is one of the strongest Jedi of his era as well, and Kenobi's damn strong for a Padawan. Together they make a perfect team. Dooku isn't that close to Yoda or Sidious, either, against Yoda in the Force duel Yoda seemed to be casually blocking all his attacks, he never seemed to be struggling at all as he was with Sidious.
Yeah, not so hard, a push can be aimed at several persons at once. And I don't see them force pushing likely because...
1. It's not a part of their strategy. Unlike Dooku, who does use the force when outnumbered.
2. Even if they did, I doubt it would have great effect. A padawan and a somewhat good force user against one of the best ever known. Says itself...
No, that speaks for force knowledge and understanding of it. It clearly doesn't require THAT much potential, seeing how Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon themselfs could do it, neither with an amazing potential.
And Obi keeping up with Qui-Gon more likely downgrades Qui-Gon, seeing how we don't know shit about TPM Obi anyway, and he doesn't impress that much. Seriously, speed, jump and push are the most basic of powers, and none are really that powerful related in combat for padawan Obi-Wan.
Wasn't Kenobi almost on the edge of not getting trained? And he might be good for a padawan, but "damn good"? What states that? He got tooled by Maul except for when he used rage and surprised him, but Maul got to the point where he, from being beaten down to the highest degree from Sidious, really slaughtered, to almost besting him. It's a huge leap in power, certainley nothing that can be taken into account of normal TPM Obi's power.
My point is, if Maul can defeat these two, not at full strength, and not by straining himself THAT much, Dooku could certainley do it easily. Not only is Dooku ahead of him in saber combat, he is miles and miles ahead of him in force powers. I didn't see Qui-Gon nor Obi-Wan getting close to Maul in that either. They could do nothing to change the face of the battle through force powers.
And Dooku did use the force on Anakin and Obi-Wan in AOTC, he took Anakin out with ease, then duelled Obi and had a little fun. He was toying around in that battle.
Once again (the need to repeat myself here is ridiculous) Kenobi winn NOT pose a threat to Dooku alone, he will, however, be able to attack Dooku to stop him from using the Force. ROTS Kenobi was unable to do this as he has mastered a defensive form.
and once again you are completly kidding yourself to think that it matters what form he uses. Padawan Kenobi could attack Dooku all he wants he is not strong enough in any way to even threaten him, he would be thrown immediatly. Kenobi in the TPM is a level 6 and not that strong in the force, using the darkside yes he could push Maul, but Dooku it wouldn't matter what he did, he would be gone quick.
As the battle proceeds, OBI-WAN and COUNT DOOKU are tiredSo Kenobi after what 20 seconds is tired 😐 ? Thats about how long he last in the movie, but later on is able to fight Anakin for about 10 minutes, yeah DS that makes alot of sense, im sure he got tired from that long fight with Dooku.