The Mark of the Beast (666)

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
no and no. give up?

you know this, i am sure......god allowed his only son to be crucified to atone for our sins. for this, he demands that we follow a certain set of rules, to acknowledge this sacrifice.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
you know this, i am sure......god allowed his only son to be crucified to atone for our sins. for this, he demands that we follow a certain set of rules, to acknowledge this sacrifice.

And that's okay.

But, if he demands that and if we don't obey we are tortured for an eternity he is not loving. That's all I am saying.

Originally posted by Bardock42
And that's okay.

But, if he demands that and if we don't obey we are tortured for an eternity he is not loving. That's all I am saying.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
so if it was your son who you allowed to be tortured and sacrificed, and mankind did not acknowledge and/or appreciate it, you would be fine with it?

No.

I would not claim to be loving though.

Originally posted by Bardock42
No.

I would not claim to be loving though.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
he is loving, as long as you acknowledge what was sacrificed so that we were forgiven for our sins.

Not like my father loves me. But like the hooker loves me I gave 50$ (i.e. not)

And, I am sorry, but people died way worse deaths than Jesus (if he existed) and if the bible is true they go through way worse stuff in Hell....sure, it's not fun, but it's not that big of a deal either.

Originally posted by Bardock42
So, not loving, but making demands and conditions.

Not like my father loves me. But like the hooker loves me I gave 50$ (i.e. not)

And, I am sorry, but people died way worse deaths than Jesus (if he existed) and if the bible is true they go through way worse stuff in Hell....sure, it's not fun, but it's not that big of a deal either.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
roasting in fire for all of eternity is not that big of a deal?

Oh that is.

Being crucified for a bit is not.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Oh that is.

Being crucified for a bit is not.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
roasting in fire for all of eternity is not that big of a deal?

Sounds fun!

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
doesn't matter how he died, just that he died. do you have any idea how much courage it must have taken for Jesus to know all through his teens and adult years what would hapen to him, and still carry on his fathers wishes?

Yes, none.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Yes, none.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
so you think it took no courage, no conviction whatsoever?

He is not a man, is he?

If he was, then yes, it would take some (not as much as many other humans have shown, but quite a lot more than I will ever).

Originally posted by Bardock42
He is not a man, is he?

If he was, then yes, it would take some (not as much as many other humans have shown, but quite a lot more than I will ever).

Originally posted by Ytse
Guess not. Explain it.

No, the spirits make your sound seem to bounce off the walls.

God made the world in a way that would make us think that cannon walls reflect sound, but the truth is that spirits call back to us.

The above is the same kind of thinking as the kind of thinking that you are putting forth.

We make observations about the universe. We have found that there are laws that govern the universe. These laws can be tested. Now you are saying that these laws do not exist. That somehow a god is doing all of the things that we see as laws. That is the same as saying that an echo is really spirit calling back to us instead of a wall reflecting a sound.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Now you are saying that these laws do not exist. That somehow a god is doing all of the things that we see as laws.

Not at all.

The laws themselves do not even govern the universe in a naturalistic world. They only describe the world around us. What I am saying is that what these laws describe aren't a natural world but a created one.

Originally posted by Ytse
Not at all.

The laws themselves do not even govern the universe in a naturalistic world. They only describe the world around us. What I am saying is that what these laws describe aren't a natural world but a created one.

I don't know what you mean by a created world. There is a natural world, and a supernatural world. A created world is a supernatural world, unless you do not take the bible literally, then there is a way to see the world as a created world that is natural.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I don't know what you mean by a created world. There is a natural world, and a supernatural world. A created world is a supernatural world, unless you do not take the bible literally, then there is a way to see the world as a created world that is natural.

I've addressed this already. What specifically don't you understand?

Originally posted by Ytse
Supernatural has no meaning at all outside a dualistic metaphysic. I'm saying there is no such dualism. All is created and god is self-sustaining and sustains his creation. There is no "nature" to be beyond or above in the first place since everything was created.

Originally posted by Ytse
I've addressed this already. What specifically don't you understand?

That sounds like a naturalist world to me. I believe that universe is God. As for creation, God was never created, therefore that universe was never created.

But I don't think that is what you are saying. What I think you are saying is that there is not natural world only supernatural. You just don't like to use the word supernatural. So, you made up a distinction that somehow changes a supernatural world into a “created world”. Spilt hairs if you like, but a “created world” is a supernatural world.