Originally posted by StyleTimeLook dude, DUH! Someone with training in boxing will of course almost always be able to beat someone with no training at all.
I figured you all might appreciate these.Boxing > average schmoes.
Originally posted by StyleTimeLook dude, DUH! Someone with training in boxing will of course almost always be able to beat someone with no training at all.
I figured you all might appreciate these.Boxing > average schmoes.
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
MMA> Purist
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Look dude, DUH! Someone with training in boxing will of course almost always be able to beat someone with no training at all.
Butterbean is not a boxer, he is in fact a fat @$$H0LE who just swings his short stubby arms at guys who dont realize that he's fat and slow with 0 stamina. I will never forget the time he was beaten by submission in 46 seconds by a small Asian dude who could have only been 150 pounds. I just really hate him and this thread is already off topic anyway.
Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Butterbean is not a boxer, he is in fact a fat @$$H0LE who just swings his short stubby arms at guys who dont realize that he's fat and slow with 0 stamina. I will never forget the time he was beaten by submission in 46 seconds by a small Asian dude who could have only been 150 pounds. I just really hate him and this thread is already off topic anyway.
This has nothing to do with it, but Genki is one my favorite fighters of all time. It's too bad he retired though. He wants to be an actor now. 🙁
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Hey, Styletime what's your beef with Bruce Lee?
Me and many others already went through it in the General Discussion Forum a long time ago.
Originally posted by Violent2DopeButterbean not a boxer? he has great striking skills, and did you even see Butterbeans submission skills? he just submitted Zuluzinho who is a Vale Tudo (superheavyweight champion apparently) from Brazil.
Butterbean is not a boxer, he is in fact a fat @$$H0LE who just swings his short stubby arms at guys who dont realize that he's fat and slow with 0 stamina. I will never forget the time he was beaten by submission in 46 seconds by a small Asian dude who could have only been 150 pounds. I just really hate him and this thread is already off topic anyway.
Butterbean lost to Minowa and Genk Sudo is a submission specialist. The outcome wasn't that surprising. if you follow MMA, you would know.
Yeah that's what I'm talking about. SUPPOSEDLY, he had this grappling experience. I saw his only official fight. His grappling knowledge was limited to basically a front headlock. He only really introduced MMA into mainstream US. Vale Tudo and other similar competetitions existed for years before Lee. The Japanese karateka orginally trained Judo along with their striking. Hell, I remember seeing some reports on ancient Greeks falling into guard during their Pankration matches. Boxing originally also included some grappling and kicks. Lee wasn't really a pioneer of anything excluding kung fu movies.
As for the fights, that's my point. Lee has no fight record. Most anything he did is hearsay.
Originally posted by Healing Artisan
Butterbean not a boxer? he has great striking skills, and did you even see Butterbeans submission skills? he just submitted Zuluzinho who is a Vale Tudo (superheavyweight champion apparently) from Brazil.Butterbean lost to Minowa and Genk Sudo is a submission specialist. The outcome wasn't that surprising. if you follow MMA, you would know.
Originally posted by StyleTimeBruce trained ground fighting with "Judo" Gene LeBell and said he liked wrestling. Sure, he's no Kimura, but he cross trained in it.
Yeah that's what I'm talking about. SUPPOSEDLY, he had this grappling experience. I saw his only official. His grappling knowledge was limited to basically a front headlock. He only really introduced MMA into US.
Originally posted by StyleTime
Vale Tudo and other similar competetiions existed for years before Lee. Hell, I remember seeing some reports on ancient Greeks and Romans falling into guard during their Pankration matches. Boxing orginially also included some grappling and kicks. Lee wasn't really a pioneer of anything excluding kung fu movies.
Of Course MMA exsisted before him, but was it mainstream?
Bruce lee was one of the early MMA's that spoke to main stream audience. Sure, he didn't do as much as an impact as say the gracies, but in the world of Chinese Martial Arts he did.
Originally posted by StyleTime
As for the fights, that's my point. Lee has no fight record. Most anything he did is hearsay.
Many fighting records from the past are hearsay.
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Bruce trained ground fighting with "Judo" Gene LeBell and said he liked wrestling. Sure, he's no Kimura, but he cross trained in it.Of Course MMA exsisted before him, but was it mainstream?
Bruce lee was one of the early MMA's that spoke to main stream audience. Sure, he didn't do as much as an impact as say the gracies, but in the world of Chinese Martial Arts he did.Many fighting records from the past are hearsay.
.....so we agree. Even still, mainstream USA didn't really get into MMA until recently. Most people still think UFC is the first MMA organization. 🙁
Yes, but we're not talking about someone like Musashi here man. Bruce was around during the 60's and 70's. As you know, that was a boom for martial arts. We have other fighters who proved themselves like Benny Urquidez, Ali, Bill Wallace, Mas Oyama, Joe Lewis, Tadashi Nakamura and various others I don't feel like listing right now. Bruce had plenty of opportunities to show his assumed abilities literally around the world.
I don't blame him personally for not proving anything. He never claimed to be the best fighter. It's his fans who hype him up despite never doing anything outside of movies.
See what I'm saying?
Originally posted by StyleTime
I said he said he supposedly crosstrained in it. He never showed any real skill with it though.
If by Skill you mean he was not notably good in it, then sure. But, back in those days there were only a few people that even took ground fighting seriously. He could still kick a good amount of ass with his ground work.
Originally posted by StyleTime
Yes, but we're not talking about someone like Musashi here man. Bruce was around during the 60's and 70's. As you know, that was a boom for martial arts. We have other fighters who proved themselves like Benny Urquidez, Ali, Bill Wallace, Mas Oyama, Joe Lewis, Tadashi Nakamura and various others I don't feel like listing right now. Bruce had plenty of opportunities to show his assumed abilities literally around the world.
I was talking about his promotion of MMA, which few people did at the time in the US. Give the man credit, he could ass and was promoting mma in his own way. Ali and Joe lewis were not.
Originally posted by StyleTime
I don't blame him personally for not proving anything. He never claimed to be the best fighter. It's his fans who hype him up despite never doing anything outside of movies.See what I'm saying?
I never said he was the best fighter, but he was great.
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
If by Skill you mean he was not notably good in it, then sure. But, back in those days there were only a few people that even took ground fighting seriously. He could still kick a good amount of ass with his ground work.Dude, I never claimed he could compete with likes of Oyama, that's insane.
I was talking about his promotion of MMA, which few people did at the time in the US. Give the man credit, he could ass and was promoting mma in his own way. Ali and Joe lewis were not.
I never said he was the best fighter, but he was great.
I didn't really bring them up to say they kick his ass. I'm just saying that he could have fought anytime he wanted, much like his contemporaries.
I credit him with at least having his head in the right direction, but to say he could kick ass is severely overrating him. No Ali and Joe weren't MMA per se, but they did prove their abilities. Ali even fought under MMA like rulesets and I think Joe wrestled, but don't quote me on that one.
That's the thing. He wasn't even great. He knew what the good theories on fighting were, but he never truly applied them.
*sigh*. I've already been through this so many times in the General Discussion Forum it's tiring lol. I'm not going to try and convince you otherwise if you believe he was great. I'm just pointing out what I saw when I finally got to see his abilities in actual combat.
At least we agree that Oyama stomps him....as well as anyone else on that list.
Originally posted by StyleTime
I'm saying that I saw pretty much his only verified fight Emperor Ashtar. He used his grappling skills against Wong Jackman. Jackman did not train groundwork, yet Bruce looked like a 6 year old and could only use a front headlock. He couldn't really kick much ass with his grappling at all I'm afraid.
I never implied he was a great grappler though.
Originally posted by StyleTime
That's the thing. He wasn't even great. He knew what the good theories on fighting were, but he never truly applied them.
C'mon, so your telling me that despite the fact Jeet Kwan Do is the only Western styled CMA he never applied them?
Originally posted by StyleTime
*sigh*. I've already been through this so many times in the General Discussion Forum it's tiring lol. I'm not going to try and convince you otherwise if you believe he was great. I'm just pointing out what I saw when I finally got to see his abilities in actual combat.
Butterbean of course has great striking skills, with all that weight to back him up he should, but all anyone has to do to beat him is outlast him and dont let him get close enough. His arms are short and that's a weakness and because he cant stay away from the double bacon cheeseburgers his stamina is sh1t.