All that matters to me is if the said artist or band can influence me to buy their music. If not the hell with em. Anyway...Rush is pretty influential if only for being virtuosos in their respective instruments...
Also I endorse the Velvet Underground. And Mike Patton should be up there. I bet 10-20 years from now Tomahawk will be revered! (at least they should be!)
If Mike Patton was widely known in the mainstream, with the same material, people would say his name.
It's only because he isn't as known that people won't suggest him. Materialwise he deserves to be there ahead of many bands deemed unquestionably eligible.
Originally posted by the welsh one
lots of bands
Name them.
Not just bands who say it, bands who have actually be influenced musically.
-AC
Originally posted by Nellinator
Influence is generally measured by the amount of people that you have influence. Patton is popular and has a strong cult following and has influenced a selected following, but I don't think it's that wide.
It's about lasting impact, not direct impact or how many people you directly touch or how many people cite you. Dog Fashion Disco have never specifically cited Patton as an influence, but listen to their music and it's more or less undeniable.
There are a shit load of vocalists, known or otherwise, who take influence from Mike Patton. Serj Tankien, Josh Homme, Greg Puciato, Daryl Palumbo, M. Shadows, Maynard James Keenan, James Hetfield, Cory Taylor. It tends to be the best musicians who aren't just out there to play to TRL, that know him. Genuine fans of music.
So even if you wanted to argue that his influence wasn't the biggest, it's arguably one of the most important. He's influencing the influential, not just making a half-way safe album that's good enough for real musicians and music fans to dig, and idiots to cite so they feel smarter.
*Awaits the inevitable reply from that inevitable poster*
-AC
Originally posted by BobbyD
Well said.RATM should make it? You think they command that much "oomph"?
How about the Who? No Prince either-very underrated in many aspects, songwriting, talent, musicianship, etc, etc.
Originally posted by Alpha CentauriHowever, I think you are highlighting an important aspect influence. False influence. I've seen lots of people claim people as influences then not have any in their work. Now, I'm not saying Patton isn't influential because he was/is, but look at your example of Hetfield. Patton influence? Pretty minimal. Hetfield obviously enjoys Patton and likes his music and this often leads people to be claimed as influences. Is Patton an influence on Hetfield? Fairly doubtful when his clear ones are Lemmy and Sean Harris. It's the same problem with the Beatles. A lot of people claim influence from them when they haven't actually been influenced.
It's about lasting impact, not direct impact or how many people you directly touch or how many people cite you. Dog Fashion Disco have never specifically cited Patton as an influence, but listen to their music and it's more or less undeniable.There are a shit load of vocalists, known or otherwise, who take influence from Mike Patton. Serj Tankien, Josh Homme, Greg Puciato, Daryl Palumbo, M. Shadows, Maynard James Keenan, James Hetfield, Cory Taylor. It tends to be the best musicians who aren't just out there to play to TRL, that know him. Genuine fans of music.
So even if you wanted to argue that his influence wasn't the biggest, it's arguably one of the most important. He's influencing the influential, not just making a half-way safe album that's good enough for real musicians and music fans to dig, and idiots to cite so they feel smarter.
*Awaits the inevitable reply from that inevitable poster*
-AC
Originally posted by Nellinator
However, I think you are highlighting an important aspect influence. False influence. I've seen lots of people claim people as influences then not have any in their work. Now, I'm not saying Patton isn't influential because he was/is, but look at your example of Hetfield. Patton influence? Pretty minimal. Hetfield obviously enjoys Patton and likes his music and this often leads people to be claimed as influences. Is Patton an influence on Hetfield? Fairly doubtful when his clear ones are Lemmy and Sean Harris. It's the same problem with the Beatles. A lot of people claim influence from them when they haven't actually been influenced.
How does this disprove what I'm saying? Minimal or not, it's there.
Undoubtedly a fan more so, and you're correct, that shouldn't be mistaken for influence, because that's inspiration, but it's there, even slightly. You say Lemmy and Sean Harris like they're the only ones. Jaz Coleman from Killing Joke, also another.
-AC
I wasn't trying to disprove you. I don't hold Patton to be not influential, I just don't consider him top ten material.
When I think of influence I try to think of how different they would be without the influence. SOAD probably wouldn't be much different if Patton hadn't existed, but I can see influence there. Hetfield would have happened anyways, Maynard James Keenan wouldn't be the same at all, etc. Sure Patton is enjoyed by a lot of musicians, but I think you are giving him too much credit in terms of influence.
I think The Beatles get name dropped a lot. And they are probably not as influential as people generally make them out to be, but I think it can't be denied that people like The Beatles, Bob Dylan, Brian Wilson, Rolling Stones, shaped popular music in the 60s and influenced people subsequently. I think that's probably what AC means anyways.
Originally posted by Nellinator
It's the same problem with the Beatles. A lot of people claim influence from them when they haven't actually been influenced.
I would call it a degree of separation kind-of-thing.
A was influenced by B, who was influenced by C, who was influenced by the Beatles. Thus the Beatles have their roots in A.
...sorta like a family tree, except this is a geneology of music.
Originally posted by BobbyD
I would call it a degree of separation kind-of-thing.A was influenced by B, who was influenced by C, who was influenced by the Beatles. Thus the Beatles have their roots in A.
...sorta like a family tree, except this is a geneology of music.
That's like saying we're all part-African because that's where life began.
Silliness. Just another excuse for people to give The Beatles credit.
If I write a song inspired by Ozzy Osbourne, who was influenced by The Beatles, it doesn't mean I am being inspired by them. Nothing The Beatles have done has influenced me.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
That's like saying we're all part-African because that's where life began.Silliness. Just another excuse for people to give The Beatles credit.
If I write a song inspired by Ozzy Osbourne, who was influenced by The Beatles, it doesn't mean I am being inspired by them. Nothing The Beatles have done has influenced me.
-AC
Point taken. I'm sorry you feel that way.