Originally posted by Healing Artisan
before i go to sleep, i want answers to thesescenario:
a physician dies at the age of 80. throughout his career, he has saved over 9,000 lives. he's lived a moral life and has donated large amounts of cash to many charity organizations. he doesn't believe in God, he is an Atheist. does he end up in Heaven?
2nd scenario:
a man who believes in Zoroastrianism dies. does he end up in heaven?
IHO
Heaven and hell are not places you go when you die.
[i]CALL THE SPECIAL FORCES!! (or the power rangers... whichever's quicker) [/B]
Spiderman to the rescue!!
Originally posted by ThePittman
You have said on a number of occasions that if you repent and that you take Jesus into your heart you are forgiven of your sins, even for child molestation. The only thing that is not forgiven does not believe in God or sins against the Holy Spirit so by your own words and that of the Bible you can be a mass murder and still get into heaven if you repent. Then you have a memory problem because nearly every other thread you are telling someone to repent, and don't use semantics and say I didn't say "need".
I see where the problem is. There is a huge difference between committing mass murder before becoming born again (which is what you are talking about), and committing mass murder after you are born again (which is what I thought that you were talking about and is the vein that I understood and wrote the previous post in response to).
Do you follow me ThePittman.
In your scenario I thought you were talking about a person who is already saved (i.e. a born again, believer), who commits mass murder.
But a person who has never asked Jesus Christ to come into his/her heart and life, who is a rank sinner, and who commits mass murder is different from someone who is saved, knows Jesus, has been washed in the Blood of Jesus, and is on their way to Heaven. An unbeliever can receive forgiveness for mass murder, but once he/she becomes born again, I do not believe that if that person commits mass murder (after becoming saved) that he/she would be forgiven of that because their heart just isn't right before God (But this is my belief that does not mean that it is correct.)
Do you see the difference between the two scenarious ThePittman?
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
YouTube videoSpiderman to the rescue!!
SHOCK AND DISBELIEF! There's a Live Action Spiderman show?! And it's Japanese?! Well... beggars can't be choosers...
Originally posted by JesusIsAliveI see what you are saying but that doesn't negate that the person still killed many people and just because he didn't accept God at that time it is less of a crime than that someone that is already "saved". In either case they are still breaking one of God's laws, so what is the real difference?
I see where the problem is. There is a huge difference between committing mass murder [B]before becoming born again (which is what you are talking about), and committing mass murder after you are born again (which is what I thought that you were talking about and is the vein that I understood and wrote the previous post in response to).Do you follow me ThePittman.
In your scenario I thought you were talking about a person who is already saved (i.e. a born again, believer), who commits mass murder.
But a person who has never asked Jesus Christ to come into his/her heart and life, who is a rank sinner, and who commits mass murder is different from someone who is saved, knows Jesus, has been washed in the Blood of Jesus, and is on their way to Heaven. An unbeliever can receive forgiveness for mass murder, but once he/she becomes born again, I do not believe that if that person commits mass murder (after becoming saved) that he/she would be forgiven of that because their heart just isn't right before God (But this is my belief that does not mean that it is correct.)
Do you see the difference between the two scenarious ThePittman? [/B]
Originally posted by Healing Artisan
before i go to sleep, i want answers to thesescenario:
a physician dies at the age of 80. throughout his career, he has saved over 9,000 lives. he's lived a moral life and has donated large amounts of cash to many charity organizations. he doesn't believe in God, he is an Atheist. does he end up in Heaven?
2nd scenario:
a man who believes in Zoroastrianism dies. does he end up in heaven?
Scenario 1:
Healing Artisan, all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God (this means that everyone no matter how good they are is a sinner). Through one man (i.e. Adam) sin entered the world, and death through sin (because the wages of sin is death), and thus death spread to all people (that is why we die because we are sinners not just because we age. If we had no sin then we would not grow old and die. Perhaps we would reach a certain optimum age, possibly 30, then we would cease to grow any older. We would simply live forever in that optimum age.)
So, as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners. Every person has inherited their sin nature from Adam. It is this sin nature that subjects us to death. Without sin there would be no death. But because we are sinners we are subject to death because the wages of sin is death.
Do you follow me Healing Artisan?
That is why the gospel which means good news is that Jesus not only washes away our sins in His own Blood, but He gives us eternal life. One day our bodies will catch up to our spirit which has eternal life. This will happen at the Rapture. The physical body of every person who is a born again, saved, sin-washed, believer in Jesus Christ will be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead (i.e. those believers whose bodies are in the grave but whose spirits are in Heaven) will be raised incorruptible (i.e. without sin), and we shall be changed (i.e. our bodies will become immortal). For this corruptible (i.e. sinful human flesh) must put on incorruption (i.e. sinless human flesh), and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written:
“Death is swallowed up in victory.”
“ O Death, where is your sting?
O Hades, where is your victory?”
(See 1 Corinthians 15:51-55)
Scenario 2:
Any and all people who do not know Jesus Christ go to Hell at death.
Originally posted by Healing Artisan
i disagree, yet i respect your post because it makes sense.i would have said both individuals are worthy of entering 'heaven' (if it exists or not).
i want to see what JIA would have said
No person is worthy of entering Heaven on their own merit (that is why God sent Jesus to pay for our sins so that we could be worthy, but it is only possible through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ and our acceptance of that sacrifice on our behalf that gives us entry into Heaven). But getting into Heaven is not automatic. We must bow our knees to Jesus Christ as it were and sincerely ask Jesus Christ to save us from our sins (this is why many people have a problem with Jesus because we are full of so much pride that we will not humble ourselves before Him even though He humbled Himself for us, left His throne in Heaven, relinquished His glory and power, subjected Himself to all of the limitations of being human, put up with all of the flak, ridicule, criticism, persecution, hatred, rejection, and misunderstanding, allowed Himself to beaten beyond human recognition, impaled to a rugged Roman cross naked and humiliated in front of people who loved Him, looked up to Him, respected Him, were counting on Him, as well as in front of those who hated Him, couldn't stand His guts, harassed Him, persecuted Him, mocked Him, and wanted Him dead.
All for what?
Jesus did nothing wrong.
There are people today (who don’t even know Jesus) who readily admit that Jesus was a good person. Yet, there were evil, hateful people who wanted Jesus dead (they were inspired by the devil to put Jesus to death).
Pilate even admitted that Jesus was innocent, asking the question, “What then shall I do with Jesus who is called Christ?” They all said to him, “Let Him be crucified!” Then the governor [i.e. Pilate] said, “Why, what evil has He done?” But they cried out all the more, saying, “Let Him be crucified!” When Pilate saw that he could not prevail at all, but rather that a tumult was rising, he took water and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, “I am innocent of the blood of this just Person. You see to it.” And all the people answered and said, “His blood be on us and on our children.” (See Matthew 27:22-25).
Pilate, the Governor of Judea, wanted to release Jesus because He knew that He was innocent of the charges that the Jewish religious leaders had trumped up against Jesus because they wanted Him dead. According to the Bible the chief priests and all the council sought testimony against Jesus to put Him to death, but found none. Many bore false witness against Him, but their testimonies did not agree (See Mark 14:55-56). Furthermore, the Bible reveals that the scribes, chief priests, and the leaders of the people sought how they might destroy Jesus because He taught daily in the temple, all the people were astonished at His teaching, and because they (i.e. the scribes, chief priests, and the leaders of the people) feared Him (See Mark 11:18 and Luke 19:47).
Why would anyone want to destroy (not just kill, but destroy a good, just, innocent person)? Jesus Christ went through all of that pain, suffering, and torment because He knew that no one was capable of getting to His Father in Heaven on their own merit (i.e. ability or individual worthiness).
Why not?
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
P.S. Jesus did all of this on His own initiative. It was His and His Father’s plan jointly to save sinners from their sins so that we could be brought back to God because they know that know one is worthy of entering Heaven.