Darth Caedus vs. Darth Nihilus

Originally posted by kevin-nivek
Also Jacens hiding technique in no way weakens his force powers, he doesnt just minimize his force presence like most jedi does he blends in with the force to the point he seems to be just part of the universe,
the sith ship detected how he affected other people to track him, if it was one on one than nihilus wouldnt be able to find him even if he could use the same technique as the sith ship(which no one of its passengers seemed to be able to learn)

You obviously need to read the Legacy books. Jacen was unable to something as simple as search for his apprentice through the Force while hiding. He is hard to sense because he minimalizes his presence in the Force.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
I don't think that's accurate GLentract. An ancient sith ship was built by the ancient sith, who still had techniques future sith haven't heard of nor will. So there's nothing to suggest Nihilus should know how to detect Jacen, just because an ancient sith ship could.

Let me make it clear that I wasn't saying that Nihilus would be able to detect him. I was using that as proof that he was still part of the Force unlike the Exile and therefor drain-able. Nihilus would still need to see him with his eyes.

Jacen doesnt get weaker when he hides in the force, otherwise Jacen wouldnt use it all the time. In sacrifice when Jacens teaches ben how to use the technique he explains it step by step and none of it was making your pressence smaller but melding yourself with the force so that you cant be sensed seperately making yourself invisible in the force
When can he not find ben?

WTF are you talking about? Nihilus is a man. He has eyes. He can see Jacen even if he does hide his Force presence.

1. nihilus' entire physical body is dead, including his eyes, ergo they wouldnt function properly. know what your talking about fool

2. even if nihilus were able to visibly see jacen, jacen can also use the force to make himself invisible

nihilus wont be able to detect him, bottom line

BTW, an Ancient Sith ship detected Jacen, who it had never met before (the less you know someone the harder it is to detect them), in only a few seconds when Jacen was hiding. If a Sith ship can detect Jacen with the Force a powerful Force User actively searching for him would have no problem doing so.

please dont twist things, jacen was never looped out of the force when the ship detected him, that was just him in his natural state

They were never actively attempting to detect Jacen. If they engaged him in a fight they would be and would have no problem seeing him with the Force.

what the fvck are you smoking, force sense in nature is a passive power, it cant be actively applied

Jacen can bearly use the Force while in this state.

clearly youve only skimmed through the book, as you dont know what the hell ur talking about, there is never any indication given that jacen cant use the force to his utmost in this state

Seeing as Nihilus can still Jacen fine with his eyes

which dont function dipsh1t

and will still have full access to his tremendous Force Powers he can just annihlate Jacen with his tremendous Force powers (how about being battered with whatever happens to be in the room flying at him at 500 mph) since Jacen can't do anything with the Force to protect himself while hiding.

except youve yet to establish that jacen is weaker in this state or that nihilus will know where he is

If he comes out of hiding to do so he simply gets Force Drained in half a second and dies.

ignoring the fact that uve offered no proof for this crazy assertion, it wouldnt come to that

Not living.

how the hell will looping out of the force make him not living???? seriously, what the hell are you smoking?

You're trying to insult my brain? That's really funny when you're the one who appears to be unable to utilize some approaching proper gammar. Keep working on it though and I'm sure one day they'll let you off the short bus.

wow, clearly the fact that someone might not give a damn about how their grammar appears on an internet forum is such an alien idea to you huh mister try hard. btw what the hell is up with people here thinking grammar has any relation to someones intelligence? in case you dont know, it doesnt, education =/= intelligence. the fact that you would even make such an implication makes it pretty conclusive that your pretty average in the brains department. ((i put that full stop in especially for you by the way seeing as how important grammar is to you))

Nihilus has eyes. His body is not dead, if it was his corpse would have decayed long before the events of KOTOR 2 and Visas would not have been able to see him after his death.

clearly his lifeforce or his armour held it together, either way we know for a fact that his living body had the force removed from it during the mandalorian wars, and krayt seems to believe it was transferred to his armour though that hasnt been confirmed

Also note that his eyes are open when he is standning, which doesn't happen with death people.

ok now i know your talking bullsh1t, seeing as his eyes arent even visible behind his fricking armour

He's got eyes. And Jacen is a total weakling unless he opens himself to the Force, which he cannot do when hiding. Hiding or not Nihilus pwns him.

already been dealt with, youve yet to establish any of this

You know what really simple?

what really simple?

Your mind. My four year old brother can reason through things better than you.

wow, that was a great one, truly witty

and coming from mr 'more destructive force power ftw' while ignoring all other factors. such as how nihilus is only ever able to sense things on a grand scale?

Nihilus has all the senses of a normal person. Jacen hiding his Force presense will do nothing to prevent Nihilus from seeing him and seconds later killing him.

already been dealt with, youve yet to establish any of this

Basically there are two ways in which someone could in theory protect themselves from Nihilus' Force Drain.

1. Be a wound in the Force. You can't really gain this though. You just kinda have to be one. This is the only sure fire way to defend youself because the techniques that Luke and Jacen know leave them partially in the Force. This is because unless you are a wound in the Force, of which the Exile appears to be the only one, you automatically die when you completey cut youself off from the Force.

yeah, nice tactic, try to bore your opponent to death with some dull lecture, real clever

2. Hide your Force Presence so Nihilus can't find your Force presence and drain it. However, this isn't a very good course of action because when hiding your Force presense you can't use the Force in a powerful manner or else that would be detected. It's like a submarine having to maintain total silence when hiding from enemy ships. Even noise, or in this case usuage of the Force, is a possible way for the enemy ship, or Nihilus, to detect you and attack you with depth chargers, or a Force Drain that kills you no matter what.

wow, way to misunderstand how the technique works, i really dont need to address this, that other guy understands it much better than you do

Jacen would use the second method because the first requires him cutting off his connection to the Force, which he can only do partially so it still might not work, and leaves him totally vunerable to attack. The second method is flawed because Jacen can barely use the Force in while doing this, meaning he would be no match whatsoever for Nihilus. The more power Jacen uses the more likely Nihilus is to detect him. The problem for Jacen is that there is no way he can stand a chance against Nihilus and not be detected and therefor drained.

even going by your craptastic submarine analogy and applying it to the technique, jacen doesnt need to use the force in excess to destroy nihilus, he can just use his saber which last time i checked doesnt classify as a great usage of the force

Would you mind cleaning your post up? It's a little hard to read.

Edit: Thanks I'll get to it.

u were saying?

Originally posted by kevin-nivek
Jacen doesnt get weaker when he hides in the force, otherwise Jacen wouldnt use it all the time. In sacrifice when Jacens teaches ben how to use the technique he explains it step by step and none of it was making your pressence smaller but melding yourself with the force so that you cant be sensed seperately making yourself invisible in the force
When can he not find ben?

True

Originally posted by IOU
1. nihilus' entire physical body is dead, including his eyes, ergo they wouldnt function properly. know what your talking about fool

If his entire body is dead, then how is he there? Please use proper grammar. And cut the insults, you only make yourself look foolish.

Originally posted by IOU 2. even if nihilus were able to visibly see jacen, jacen can also use the force to make himself invisible

nihilus wont be able to detect him, bottom line

We are talking a about a guy who can sense a jedi on the other side of the galaxy with out a problem. Nihilus kills Jacen, even if he tries to hide.

Originally posted by IOU please dont twist things, jacen was never looped out of the force when the ship detected him, that was just him in his natural state

K

Originally posted by IOU what the fvck are you smoking, force sense in nature is a passive power, it cant be actively applied

Wow, you invented a new word; fvck.

Originally posted by IOU clearly youve only skimmed through the book, as you dont know what the hell ur talking about, there is never any indication given that jacen cant use the force to his utmost in this state

which dont function dipsh1t

Must you be a imbecile and go batshit crazy on someone you dislike?
Again, please user proper grammar and spelling, some people would like to understand your barbaric rants.

Originally posted by IOU except youve yet to establish that jacen is weaker in this state or that nihilus will know where he is

If Nihilus could sense a planet that has Jedi in hiding, he can sure sense Jacen.

Originally posted by IOU how the hell will looping out of the force make him not living???? seriously, what the hell are you smoking?

More unneeded insults..

btw what the hell is up with people here thinking grammar has any relation to someones intelligence?

Because comments like this "Omgz j0z p30pl3 r sup1d, btw 3x@r i5 t3h win!" Show ignorance of grammar and laziness to type full sentences.

[i]Originally posted by IOU in case you dont know, it doesnt, education =/= intelligence.

Then use proper grammar! if you want to make yourself look like a dunce, please continue with the crazy comments.

Originally posted by IOU ok now i know your talking bullsh1t, seeing as his eyes arent even visible behind his fricking armour

Again, you looked under Nihilus' mask? Holy shit! When did you meet him? Nihilus has eyes!

Originally posted by IOU and coming from mr 'more destructive force power ftw' while ignoring all other factors. such as how nihilus is only ever able to sense things on a grand scale?

The Force. 😕

Originally posted by IOU even going by your craptastic submarine analogy and applying it to the technique, jacen doesnt need to use the force in excess to destroy nihilus, he can just use his saber which last time i checked doesnt classify as a great usage of the force

Even Saber wise, Jacen is most likely to die.

If his entire body is dead, then how is he there?

pay attention to kotor2 and the legacy comics, nihilus died a physical death and transferred his lifeforce to his armour

Please use proper grammar.

🙄

And cut the insults, you only make the person your insulting look foolish.

indeed i do

We are talking a about a guy who can sense a jedi on the other side of the galaxy with out a problem. Nihilus kills Jacen, even if he tries to hide.

the difference is dipsh1t, nihilus was able to sense an entire planet filled with force sensitives that werent trying to hide themselves. in case u didnt know, the larger the presence in the force that your sensing is, the easier it is to sense. jacen is one person, who can hide his force presence form people like kyp durron and luke skywalker (who are >>>>>>> nihilus).

K. youre so clever iou

why thank you

Wow, you invented a new word; fvck.

yeah, werent you the guy telling me i need to work on my grammar? that was a colon you were supposed to put in there, not a semi colon silly one

Must you be a imbecile and go batshit crazy on someone you dislike?
Again, please user proper grammar and spelling, some people would like to understand your barbaric rants.

😆 😆
thats nice, refer to the above, get some proper grammar skillz yourself before trying to critique someone else

If Nihilus could sense a planet that has Jedi in hiding, he can sure sense Jacen.

again, know what ur talking about, a greater number of jedi would be easier to sense, not the other way round, it would be like me saying that because i can see a swarm of wasps from a distance i would therefor be able to do the same with a single wasp from the same distance with even more ease. see how silly that is?

More unneeded insults..

More whining like a b1tch..

Because comments like this "Omgz j0z p30pl3 r sup1d, btw 3x@r i5 t3h win!" Show ignorance of grammar and laziness to type full sentences.

no, it doesnt show ignorance of grammar you moron, it shows lack of caring and/or laziness

the fact that u come out with this sh1t makes it clear that you're the 'dunce'.

Then use proper grammar! if you want to make yourself look like a dunce, please continue with the crazy comments.

sure thing, and if you don't want to make yourself look like a dunce, id suggest you stop posting, because everything you come out with displays a clear lack of a brain

Again, you looked under Nihilus' mask? Holy shit! When did you meet him? Nihilus has eyes!

again, pay attention, get your facts straight before coming out with this crap. his physical body is dead (in case u didnt know, that includes his eyes), his eyes would in no way function properly

The Force. 😕

wow, clearly you missed how it was explicitly stated that nihilus sees only planets, not people, and how he wasnt able to sense the exiles party boarding the ravager

his power lies in his hunger, and no one person is worth his attention

Even Saber wise, Jacen is most likely to die.

disregarding the fact that u misread my post (i never said that they would engage in a saber duel you dunce, looks like im adding bad reading comprehension to your list as well as ignorance, stupidity and shoddy grammar skills), to even make the claim that nihilus would be able to stand up to jacen in a saber duel is ludicrous, last i checked he had no proven saber skills whatsoever, very little experience at best, and to even assume that hed care about his saber skills completely goes against his character

kyp durron and luke skywalker (who are >>>>>>> nihilus).

At the start of Battle Nihilus instantly takes this.
he's drain now, talk later.

yeah, werent you the guy telling me i need to work on my grammar? that was a colon you were supposed to put in there, not a semi colon silly one

😆 😆
thats nice, refer to the above, get some proper grammar skillz yourself before trying to critique someone else

You too, you too.

More whining like a b1tch..

Another insult from the peanut gallery....

no, it doesnt show ignorance of grammar you moron, it shows lack of caring and/or laziness

That's even worse! 😄

the fact that u come out with this sh1t makes it clear that you're the 'dunce'.

"Must the weak minded speak strong?"

sure thing, and if you don't want to make yourself look like a dunce, id suggest you stop posting, because everything you come out with displays a clear lack of a brain

"Must the weak minded speak strong?"

again, pay attention, get your facts straight before coming out with this crap. his physical body is dead (in case u didnt know, that includes his eyes), his eyes would in no way function properly

Just because he kept himself alive by binding his essence to his armor doesn't mean he wouldn't still have a physical body. In fact, it implies that he would necessarily have a physical body, as he'd otherwise be both a ghost and unable to use the Force.

last i checked he had no proven saber skills whatsoever, very little experience at best, and to even assume that hed care about his saber skills completely goes against his character [/B]

"Darth Nihilus wielded a red-bladed lightsaber and fought in a one-handed aggressive style; however, he rarely had to use it. He had learned the greatest of the Sith teachings but such practices took the form of dependence."

Originally posted by ThoraxeRMG
In fact, it implies that he would necessarily have a physical body as he'd otherwise be both a ghost and unable to use the Force.

Wrong. Warb Null, who essentially did the same thing (merged his essense with armor), was able to call upon the Force:

"...[Null's] practice in the dark side of the Force.

The evil warrior pressed a dark force against his opponent". You were saying?

<edit> And to top it off

God damnit people! CHARACTERS. ARE. NOT. OMNIPOTENT. They can't predict or anticipate an opponent's move that they never faced. WHICH MEANS THEY WON'T GO OUT OF THE FORCE LOOP, CAUSE THEY. WON'T. KNOW. GET IT INSIDE YOUR HEADS.

"or maybe, just maybe, the fact that nihilus would be an unknown threat as well as his unusual force presence would convince jacen into realising that nihilus could be for all he knew a threat like no other that he had ever faced and force him into bringing his a-game."

Originally posted by IOU
"or maybe, just maybe, the fact that nihilus would be an unknown threat as well as his unusual force presence would convince jacen into realising that nihilus could be for all he knew a threat like no other that he had ever faced and force him into bringing his a-game."

j00 cannot read people's mind. Nor say what they're gonna do.

Originally posted by JesusTheChrist
God damnit people! CHARACTERS. ARE. NOT. OMNIPOTENT. They can't predict or anticipate an opponent's move that they never faced. WHICH MEANS THEY WON'T GO OUT OF THE FORCE LOOP, CAUSE THEY. WON'T. KNOW. GET IT INSIDE YOUR HEADS.

True

neither can j00

at least my scenario makes sense, unlike your's where jacen will apparently let an unknown and mysterious threat make the first move, and just stand there...

Originally posted by IOU
"bringing his a-game."

Nice one, Numan.

Originally posted by IOU
neither can j00

at least my scenario makes sense, unlike your's where jacen will apparently let an unknown and mysterious threat make the first move, and just stand there...

We can't predict, we're not inside Jacen's head are we? But we can assume, Nihilus will try to drain Jacen as his first move as, its evident in KOTOR 2, Nihilus is "DRAIN FIRST, SABERFIGHT LATER"

really, i always got the impression that he was a "STUN FIRST, DRAIN LATER" kind of guy, like he was against the exile and her party

or a "FORCE PUSH FIRST, LET SION KICK ASS LATER" kind of guy like he was with traya

hmm, looks like your theory that nihilus will just go and attempt to drain jacen right away is completely unsupported now huh?

and you say 'we can't predict, but we can assume' well i can just do the same and assume that jacen will loop out right away based on reasons already mentioned, which is clearly more logical than your stance. and jacen can do so at the speed of thought, we know that nihilus at least has to raise his hand to perform a drain... face it, in all scenarios, nihilus gets OWNED

Originally posted by Advent
Nice one, Numan.

i thought it was nebaris? come on now, make up your mind

You know, I'm not so sure Numan is even a separate person from Nebaris. Both claimed to be extremely young, stole Lana's signatures (if I recall correctly), and acted like pompous jackasses (albeit, it was/is funny).

Even so, now I know you're Nebaris.