Kingpin is on par with most high-end street levelers. He has wrecked Cap, Red Skull, Batman, etc. in H2H, and that was even when Cap had his shield.
Like it or not, somehow Marvel made it that he's beyond peak human in terms of strength, speed, and durability. Early (pre-upgrade) Spider-Man would routinely lose to KP unless he had some sort of plot device....and even then, KP simply has a few legit wins over Spidey.
So of the ones capt mentioned, current Spidey would wreck him, Wolverine's debatable because of the healing factor, but Daredevil and Cap would get told.
...it's a bit rough, however, since KP hasn't fought much in years. Most of his feats are from his "Classic" era. Now, there's no difference between then and now...no special retcons or downgrades. But Marvel has made him more of a planner than a fighter in recent years. So it's reasonable to assume he might not be at classic levels, but we really don't know.
Originally posted by llagrok
When using his batons, Daredevil should definitely take the majority against Kingpin. He has had a lot of good feats lately, like taking out Wolverine in hand to hand during "agent of hydra" and so on.
I would respectfully disagree. If KP is written like he was back in the day, he was every bit Spider-Man's equal. And even classic Spidey is >>> DD.
Currently, you may be right, especially because KP is a recurring figure in DD comics.
Originally posted by DigiMark007
I would respectfully disagree. If KP is written like he was back in the day, he was every bit Spider-Man's equal. And even classic Spidey is >>> DD.Currently, you may be right, especially because KP is a recurring figure in DD comics.
Although it's unfair to match up a villain against a comic's main character, I don't think that classic spidey would take Daredevil. Daredevil has great martial arts skills and heightened senses. I think you're taking the old comics a bit too seriously. A lot of things were very undefined and such back then.
Like Wolverine and Nightcrawler's appearances in the old Iron Fist comic, it's just pure nonsense. Wolverine looks like the feral Shi'ar member.
Anyways, most of KP feats are based off very old comics and crossovers where I think they thought of him as someone who was superhuman. This was retconned and he's a peak human.
KP has never been retconned??
Old comics are no less viable than new ones, they printed comics before 1990 you know and they were good too!
Hes always been classed as peak human strength but has feats that supass anything a peak human can do.
He schooled DD and Spiderman, Red Skull in a cloned caps body couldn't take him hand to hand.
He is and always has been a beast hand to hand and hes never been termed superhuman thoughout his history hes just big and strong and tough.
Originally posted by Hercules
KP has never been retconned??Old comics are no less viable than new ones, they printed comics before 1990 you know and they were good too!
Hes always been classed as peak human strength but has feats that supass anything a peak human can do.
He schooled DD and Spiderman, Red Skull in a cloned caps body couldn't take him hand to hand.
He is and always has been a beast hand to hand and hes never been termed superhuman thoughout his history hes just big and strong and tough.
Digi said that he was above peak human, which I disagreed with.
Old comics, you mean the ones where Professor X could bend steel girders with his mind? Those are all fine and dandy, just don't take them TOO seriously. Old comics are great, but the power descriptions can be very vague.
Originally posted by llagrok
Digi said that he was above peak human, which I disagreed with.Old comics, you mean the ones where Professor X could bend steel girders with his mind? Those are all fine and dandy, just don't take them TOO seriously. Old comics are great, but the power descriptions can be very vague.
Are you for real? 😕
Who takes comics seriously at all??
Kingpin has feats that suggest he is stronger than Peak Human, just like Bullet another DD foe who was meant to be human has strength feats that suggest other wise.
And how old are you saying is old? Kingpin vs Red Skull was 1990ish during the streets of poison arc in Captain America.
How are the power descriptions vague? the guys that wrote the comics back then created the characters, you telling me Stan lee doesn't know what the Hulk is capable of for instance?
Modern comics are so much better? when you have guys randomly apearing back from the dead with no explanation other than some writer thought it would be cool.
You want me to take that more seriously, you can't dismiss evidence based on the time the comic was written, canon is canon no matter how old it is.
Kingpin has been written pretty concistently throughout his history and him beating Spiderman, DD, Cap and Skull are cannon and they did happen.
Yes, they are canon, but sometimes they're still full of bullshit 🙂
Stan lee had Professor X bend steel girders and he had Emma Frost shoot a hole in the wall with her telepathy. Does that mean they can do it today? No, no it doesn't.
As much as I love Stan Lee, he can still be wrong. Did they even have a proper definition of peak human back then? and is it the same as it is today? They could've been different.
Originally posted by llagrok
Yes, they are canon, but sometimes they're still full of bullshit 🙂
Stan lee had Professor X bend steel girders and he had Emma Frost shoot a hole in the wall with her telepathy. Does that mean they can do it today? No, no it doesn't.As much as I love Stan Lee, he can still be wrong. Did they even have a proper definition of peak human back then? and is it the same as it is today? They could've been different.
Wait, the people that created the universe write something and you write it off as BS 😕
Peak human has been described as far back as the early 80s as 800lbs lifting strength.
Man, you really are reaching here and how is say Prof X bending a steel girder once in a comic the same as KingPin repeatedly showing he has the ability to take it to highly skilled Martial artists and guys who are superhumanly strong and fast?
Something happening once can be written off as PIS, something happening again and again over a period of years can not.
Originally posted by Hercules
Wait, the people that created the universe write something and you write it off as BS 😕Peak human has been described as far back as the early 80s as 800lbs lifting strength.
Man, you really are reaching here and how is say Prof X bending a steel girder once in a comic the same as KingPin repeatedly showing he has the ability to take it to highly skilled Martial artists and guys who are superhumanly strong and fast?
Something happening once can be written off as PIS, something happening again and again over a period of years can not.
You need to stop looking for things to disagree with mate.
I already told you that I agree with Kingpin being peak human is reasonable, I only stated that his showing against classic spidey is BS, because peak humans aren't stronger than classic spidey. Old comics have a lot of things like this, that's all I'm saying.
Originally posted by llagrok
You need to stop looking for things to disagree with mate.I already told you that I agree with Kingpin being peak human is reasonable, I only stated that his showing against classic spidey is BS, because peak humans aren't stronger than classic spidey. Old comics have a lot of things like this, that's all I'm saying.
Stop giving me things to disagree with then, it isn't one showing, its a lot of showings over a period of years, which means its consistant which means its very much not BS.
What your calling BS is actually, I don't like it, it didn't happen.
Problem is you haven't even read the issues on question yet still your calling BS on them.
Your argument has no basis on evidence, just your personal opinion, Digi's argument which I support is based on, on panel evidence shown over a number of issues over a number of years.
And Instead of walking away or agreeing to disagree you continue to tout your opinion as fact and try to force it on others.
Originally posted by Hercules
Stop giving me things to disagree with then, it isn't one showing, its a lot of showings over a period of years, which means its consistant which means its very much not BS.What your calling BS is actually, I don't like it, it didn't happen.
Problem is you haven't even read the issues on question yet still your calling BS on them.
Your argument has no basis on evidence, just your personal opinion, Digi's argument which I support is based on, on panel evidence shown over a number of issues over a number of years.
And Instead of walking away or agreeing to disagree you continue to tout your opinion as fact and try to force it on others.
Right, so in your opinion peak humans can overpower class 5 characters and such? Logic.
I'm calling BS on it because it doesn't make sense, there aren't too many showings of Kingpin actually overpowering spiderman.
First you said that he was and has always been a peak human, but now you're saying that you agree with Digi who said that he was above peak human. Hmm, that's a bit confusing. Mind clearing that up?
Originally posted by llagrok
Right, so in your opinion peak humans can overpower class 5 characters and such? Logic.I'm calling BS on it because it doesn't make sense, there aren't too many showings of Kingpin actually overpowering spiderman.
First you said that he was and has always been a peak human, but now you're saying that you agree with Digi who said that he was above peak human. Hmm, that's a bit confusing. Mind clearing that up?
If you read my posts I have cleared it up, he is labeled as peak human but has feats that suggest otherwise.
There are enough showings for it not to be BS, your way of debating seems to be veiled insults and scarcasm, nice skills you have there.
On panel evidence suggests that Kingpin has some degree of Superhuman strength, marvels official line is that he has the strength of a man of his height and build who engages in intensive physical exercise.
And that is how it has always been, if he had managed to beat Spiderman the once, I would be right alongside you calling PIS, when hes doing it consistantly and Spiderman is needing a plot device to win, you can't call PIS anymore.
Digi is stating that on panel evidence suggests he is above peak human, I agree with that statement but he has never been said to be such.