Originally posted by Hercules
There are enough showings for it not to be BS, your way of debating seems to be veiled insults and scarcasm, nice skills you have there.
Oh sweet Irony.
Actual feats aren't ALWAYS right. Daredevil took down Wolverine is about as many shots as Namor did. This doesn't necessarily mean that Daredevil is stronger.
How many cases do you have of Kingpin overpowering Spidey in the 90s? Scans please.
Originally posted by llagrok
Oh sweet Irony.Actual feats aren't ALWAYS right.
No, but the fact remains that pretty much EVERY H2H showing KP has puts him well above peak human.
Claiming retcons is just plain false. You can believe whatever you want, but there's feats within the last decade or so that still have him at these levels, and there's never really been evidence to the contrary with him.
So, to make him "peak human" you'd basically have to ignore his entire canon and declare a retcon that doesn't exist.
Originally posted by DigiMark007
No, but the fact remains that pretty much EVERY H2H showing KP has puts him well above peak human.Claiming retcons is just plain false. You can believe whatever you want, but there's feats within the last decade or so that still have him at these levels, and there's never really been evidence to the contrary with him.
So, to make him "peak human" you'd basically have to ignore his entire canon and declare a retcon that doesn't exist.
What feats in the recent decade put him above peak human strength?
Originally posted by llagrok
What feats in the recent decade put him above peak human strength?
What feats don't?
See, that's the point. Nothing has ever been retconned with him, so the burden of proof is on those who feel he's less than his "classic" levels, since all of those feats are still valid.
Originally posted by llagrok
Oh sweet Irony.Actual feats aren't ALWAYS right. Daredevil took down Wolverine is about as many shots as Namor did. This doesn't necessarily mean that Daredevil is stronger.
How many cases do you have of Kingpin overpowering Spidey in the 90s? Scans please.
Yes Irony indeed, I don't recall throwing any inuslts your way, just pointing out that you were debating on opinion not evidence.
The onus on proof is not on me or Digi, its on you, your first tactic was to throw a non exsistant retcon out there.
What do the 90's matter, so anything before you were born is BS now?
Originally posted by Hercules
Yes Irony indeed, I don't recall throwing any inuslts your way, just pointing out that you were debating on opinion not evidence.The onus on proof is not on me or Digi, its on you, your first tactic was to throw a non exsistant retcon out there.
What do the 90's matter, so anything before you were born is BS now?
You haven't been reading my posts at all.
Marvel stated that he was peak human, so how can you explain him beating Spidey? Either it's PIS, Spidey holding back or Marvel did a mistake. Back in the 70s Marvel did a lot of mistakes like this, when it came to power and strength levels. Which is why I don't think that Digi should take those feats too seriously, because Marvel has put him at peak strength and the feats that claim otherwise are from times when these mistakes weren't uncommon.
Namor was capable of using electricity, we had a crappy definition of telepathy and so on. The Wrecking crew also knocked out Hulk in one punch, this doesn't necessarily mean that they are stronger than him.
I have no problem with Kingpin being above peak human, but that doesn't really make any sense, now does it? If anything, I think he's gotten weaker lately. Not counting Civil War one shot, have you ever seen him in a fight since 1990?
Originally posted by llagrok
You haven't been reading my posts at all.Marvel stated that he was peak human, so how can you explain him beating Spidey? Either it's PIS, Spidey holding back or Marvel did a mistake. Back in the 70s Marvel did a lot of mistakes like this, when it came to power and strength levels. Which is why I don't think that Digi should take those feats too seriously, because Marvel has put him at peak strength and the feats that claim otherwise are from times when these mistakes weren't uncommon.
Namor was capable of using electricity, we had a crappy definition of telepathy and so on. The Wrecking crew also knocked out Hulk in one punch, this doesn't necessarily mean that they are stronger than him.
I have no problem with Kingpin being above peak human, but that doesn't really make any sense, now does it? If anything, I think he's gotten weaker lately. Not counting Civil War one shot, have you ever seen him in a fight since 1990?
Marvel is full of mistakes now, lightening in outer space and BP putting an armbar on surfer spring to mind.
No I have been reading you posts and like I said if it was a one time deal I would call BS too but its not, its been consistantly written that way.
So if he has had very few physical fights since 1990 then that means hes weaker?
Or maybe they just shifted his character to be more behind the scenes?
Handbooks yes have stated Kingpin to be human and I have never seen him termed Superhuman in comics but his feats show otherwise, again PIS and BSn do happen, a lot more now than ever before imo but if something is consistently shown then it ceases to be PIS.
I not sure how it debatable wolverine vs kingpin I mean what is kingpin better at then wolverine? I not seen a single stat I give any edge to kingpin in.
also llagrok it was enemy of the stat and DD never beat wolverine a plot device knocked wolverine back into the drivers seat. What you have been using as evidence was false.
I think kingpin vs capt is debatable for the most part it seems it could go either way.
Originally posted by capt it up
I not sure how it debatable wolverine vs kingpin I mean what is kingpin better at then wolverine? I not seen a single stat I give any edge to kingpin in.also llagrok it was enemy of the stat and DD never beat wolverine a plot device knocked wolverine back into the drivers seat. What you have been using as evidence was false.
I think kingpin vs capt is debatable for the most part it seems it could go either way.
What I have been using as evidence is false, oh noes.
Calm down mate, raging Wolverine fanboyism hasn't been cool since the 80s
Originally posted by llagrok
What I have been using as evidence is false, oh noes.Calm down mate, raging Wolverine fanboyism hasn't been cool since the 80s
Your sad attempt tp attack me just failled as always.
You need to learn to stop talking out your back end.
When you get caught talking out your back end you need to except it and not attack the person who is merely telling you what you have said was false.
So please grow up.
Nothing I said was rabbid fanboyism in the least, but again you show your self to be a little boy.
so read the issues before speaking and get the titles correct.
Kingpin is peakihuman to superhuman levels in every area for starters and his feats prove it.
Originally posted by capt it up
I not sure how it debatable wolverine vs kingpin I mean what is kingpin better at then wolverine? I not seen a single stat I give any edge to kingpin in.also llagrok it was enemy of the stat and DD never beat wolverine a plot device knocked wolverine back into the drivers seat. What you have been using as evidence was false.
I think kingpin vs capt is debatable for the most part it seems it could go either way.
He's >> Logan in strength. That's what we've said probably a dozen times.
Beyond that, I said personally in another thread that I have no problem with Wolverine beating KP in a regular fight, or even in a no-claws fight, due to his healing factor.
I've never been trying to make a case for KP being better than your boy...just attempting him to get the respect he deserves. Because KP would completely ruin guys like Cap. Period.
Originally posted by DigiMark007
He's >> Logan in strength. That's what we've said probably a dozen times.Beyond that, I said personally in another thread that I have no problem with Wolverine beating KP in a regular fight, or even in a no-claws fight, due to his healing factor.
I've never been trying to make a case for KP being better than your boy...just attempting him to get the respect he deserves. Because KP would completely ruin guys like Cap. Period.
What are kingpin strength feats that put him over wolverine? Becuase I like to see them.
I no problems with KP getting his respect he a bad ass, but I think your over doing it with the ruining capt part. Kingpins feats don't really out shine capts. Capts stats are extremely similar. Kingpin wins the majority probly, but ruining capt I not sure about that.
Originally posted by capt it up
see here were I disagree.What are kingpin strength feats that put him over wolverine? Becuase I like to see them.
I no problems with KP getting his respect he a bad ass, but I think your over doing it with the ruining capt part. Kingpins feats don't really out shine capts. Capts stats are extremely similar. Kingpin wins the majority probly, but ruining capt I not sure about that.
Enough with the fanboyism, it's common knowledge that you're a Wolverine fanboy.
Daredevil beat him, live with it.
Originally posted by capt it up
Becuase I like to see them.
Do I really need to copy/paste half the respect thread into here before you'll consider my viewpoint? Yeah, no thanks. He was murdering Cap in a H2H battle, so you're either choosing to ignore that, or you just haven't read any of it...which would make your "I know KP's a beast, but...etc etc." nothing more than speculation.
He'd lose to Wolverine. But he's stronger.
Originally posted by llagrok
Enough with the fanboyism, it's common knowledge that you're a Wolverine fanboy.Daredevil beat him, live with it.
You said DD beat wolverine like Namor did but in fewer shots........
DD never beat wolverine with punches in that issue of enemy of the state. Actaully all DD manage to do was hit Logan with a weight and Logan tripped over a hand ninjas legg and fell on a sword.......
Logan was still able to fight, but he had regained controll of his own body.
Thats not even a win for DD thats simply a very luck scenerio for the hurt DD.
honestly if your gunna use an issue to prove your point at least read the dam thing before hand.
still waiting for what I have said that was fanboyish.
by the way your known on the boards for talking out your ass. I rather be known as a wolverine fan boy then being known for talking out my ass such as your self.
also even if I am a wolverine fanboy as you put it. How does that discredit what I have to say? It does not.
If any thing you should be listening to me when, I am telling you your recalling the issue incorrectly.
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Do I really need to copy/paste half the respect thread into here before you'll consider my viewpoint? Yeah, no thanks. He was murdering Cap in a H2H battle, so you're either choosing to ignore that, or you just haven't read any of it...which would make your "I know KP's a beast, but...etc etc." nothing more than speculation.He'd lose to Wolverine. But he's stronger.
If you won't prove it I am going to assume it untrue.
Yes he did beat capt ive seen the issue however you of all people should know one comic does not prove one characters beter then another. It over all feats of the characters and there shown levels.
for example in DD firts fight with capt he beat capt in 3 pannels yet we all know thats not a likly out come. Also in a later fight DD did not do nearly so well.