Street vs Cl100

Originally posted by leonidas
all right, so we've all seen it -- dc has just posted the most recent example of this type of stupidity -- cap (with spidey) PUNCHING OUT the hulk. 😑 we all know what wolverine has done, and deathstroke. there are LOADS of others.

so, here is my question: is it possible for a street level guy (and no, spidey is NOT street) to LEGITIMATELY and BELIEVEABLY defeat a cl100 character in h2h battle? do you think cl100 guys should just be able to destroy any street leveler?

i've my own thoughts but i don't want to steal anyone's thunder and i'm curious to hear others.

This goes for the class 1-2 guys as well. It's probably the biggest and most overused stupid comic book ploy. To think that with enough training you can overcome that large a gap in power is ridiculous.

Suspension of disbelief is common among all comics. Thats what gives characters like Batman, Wolverine, and Captain America there thunder. The more popular the character is along with the preferences of the writer determine the characters standing in most comics. This enables characters like Deathstroke, Spiderman or Black Panther to perform as well as they do with top tiers. As far as my opinion goes, it is rather necessary( if done correctly) for these occurrences to keep a majority audience attracted to a character despite their short comings in various fights. Can it be done believeably? (probably not) but thats one of the attractions to the comic genre in that no fight (no matter how lopsided) is set in stone.

Originally posted by leonidas
all right, so we've all seen it -- dc has just posted the most recent example of this type of stupidity -- cap (with spidey) PUNCHING OUT the hulk. 😑 we all know what wolverine has done, and deathstroke. there are LOADS of others.

so, here is my question: is it possible for a street level guy (and no, spidey is NOT street) to LEGITIMATELY and BELIEVEABLY defeat a cl100 character in h2h battle? do you think cl100 guys should just be able to destroy any street leveler?

i've my own thoughts but i don't want to steal anyone's thunder and i'm curious to hear others.

Originally posted by Newjak
Let me put it to you this way. If your body can take bullets and you can rip a normal humans' arms out of their socket with your pinky finger no street level should ever effect you.

This goes for the class 1-2 guys as well. It's probably the biggest and most overused stupid comic book ploy. To think that with enough training you can overcome that large a gap in power is ridiculous.

The only reason why it doesnt make any sense is if a character has not done it on a regular basis.

I just found out recently that Thor has WW syndrome. The guy take 100,000 tons of blunt force trauma but can be hurt by a bullet or sharp objects, I suspect hes not the only person in class 100 who can do this. That is also ridiculous. It could be argued even if you dont believe that Cap can KO the Hulk with his fists he can do it with his shield. Since the shield is indesctructible and Cap can throw it quite fast.

Its a comicbook they have their own laws of physics somehow top tier MAs can beat people in class 100. In all fairness I think its unlikely Cap will KO the real heavy hitters but I think he has a chance against low level class 100s.

Originally posted by Alfheim
The only reason why it doesnt make any sense is if a character has not done it on a regular basis.

I just found out recently that Thor has WW syndrome. The guy take 100,000 tons of blunt force trauma but can be hurt by a bullet or sharp objects, I suspect hes not the only person in class 100 who can do this. That is also ridiculous. It could be argued even if you dont believe that Cap can KO the Hulk with his fists he can do it with his shield. Since the shield is indesctructible and Cap can throw it quite fast.

Its a comicbook they have their own laws of physics somehow top tier MAs can beat people in class 100. In all fairness I think its unlikely Cap will KO the real heavy hitters but I think he has a chance against low level class 100s.

No street level MA no matter how skilled should in reality ever even get a class 100 to notice their attacks.

Even with a shield like Caps the metal does nothing it is the force behind it that matters. In reality to someone like Hulk Cap would get the same result with his shield as if he was hitting him with brass knuckles.

Nerve strikes only work if the person is strong enough ot actually effect them. Think if a baby hits an elephant in a pressure point is it really going to effect the elephant no it won't.

What if I could kick the elephant in his family jewels? 😄

Originally posted by Newjak

Even with a shield like Caps the metal does nothing it is the force behind it that matters. In reality to someone like Hulk Cap would get the same result with his shield as if he was hitting him with brass knuckles.

Ok in reality class 100s should be able to:

1. Flex their muscles and create powerful preesure waves. Some agree some disagree.

2. Should be able to jump out of orbit at supersonic speed.

3. should not be hurt by bullets.

4. Bruce Banner should be dead due to radiation.

Why are you talking about reality when so much of it does not fit reality? If you think about it your are picking and choosing what aspects make sense and those that do not.

No it shoudln't happen but yes it does happen.

There is a lot of suspension of disbelief in comics, thats why they are works of fiction after all.

Cap punching out the hulk without the use of skill just his own brute force is PIS yes but it did happen, what makes it even more PIS is the fact that in the past Cap has flat out said he couldn't beat the Hulk but could keep him busy.

However it does happen and will continue to happen but it shouldn't I have seen guys who have black belts get decimated in a pub fight by someone who has virtually no skill at all but is a hell of a lot bigger and an out an out brawler.

However in the comic world "Martial Arts" (and by martial arts they are refering to those arts from the eastern world even though the term Martial Arts encompases any art that is used to fight.) equals the ultimate equaliser it allows normal humans to roll with and block punches that would go through steel.

As has been said this isn't real life, if it was most of our favourite heroes would be dead by now and villians wouldn't monologue and allow the Hero to recover.

If for instance you read a comic and it stayed close to what we equate real life to be then as soon as the Hulk connected with a punch to a street levers face most of the time that face would evaporate in a cloud of blood, brains and bone fragments.

But Marital arts skill in the comic world is the plot device that is used to say why this doesn't happen and on the whole I can live with that, its only really bad writing when the street level seems to out brawl someone hundreds of times stronger than them, as seen in the recent Loeb fight.

In conclusion, it shouldn't happen, it does and it will continue to do so.

Originally posted by Jebus reborn
It did though, and Batman consistently proves it.
If you have super powers, you're going to taste boot one of these days.

Colossus is a 100 tonner though... plus Colossus is extremely durable, bad comparison.
Thing as well.

What Marvel class 100 aren't extremely durable?

Originally posted by Alfheim
Why are you talking about reality when so much of it does not fit reality? If you think about it your are picking and choosing what aspects make sense and those that do not.

The question posed was should MA's be enough to help street levelrs take down class 100s. I answered the question was all and the answer is no.

This has nothing to do with me nitpicking comics I was simply answering the question being asked.

Originally posted by Jebus reborn
It did though, and Batman consistently proves it.
If you have super powers, you're going to taste boot one of these days.

Originally posted by Big Sexy
Suspension of disbelief is common among all comics. Thats what gives characters like Batman, Wolverine, and Captain America there thunder. The more popular the character is along with the preferences of the writer determine the characters standing in most comics. This enables characters like Deathstroke, Spiderman or Black Panther to perform as well as they do with top tiers. As far as my opinion goes, it is rather necessary( if done correctly) for these occurrences to keep a majority audience attracted to a character despite their short comings in various fights. Can it be done believeably? (probably not) but thats one of the attractions to the comic genre in that no fight (no matter how lopsided) is set in stone.

Exactly ✅

Still just for fun here are some various points of stupidity involved with comic MAs 😛

1) That by training yourself in many styles you are automatically better than someone who has learned less styles than you.

2) That by training yourself non stop you all of sudden get superhuman agility and speed to out react people with real superhuman abilities

3) That by rolling with a class 100 punch that it completely negates the entire blow. Despite the fact that you are still probably getting hit with no less than 25 tons of force.

4) That somehow your blows hit with greater force and impact than a bullet just because you learned how to hit someone

5) That pressure points and weak spots (like behind the the knee) are still exploitable despite the person's body basically being stronger than steel girdles.

6) That weapons of great durability actually somehow allow someone greater hitting power despite the fact it is still the force behind the blow that matters.

Originally posted by Hercules
If for instance you read a comic and it stayed close to what we equate real life to be then as soon as the Hulk connected with a punch to a street levers face most of the time that face would evaporate in a cloud of blood, brains and bone fragments.

Like in the Authority?

Originally posted by Hercules
But Marital arts skill in the comic world is the plot device that is used to say why this doesn't happen

Which marital arts are we talking about?

naughty

Originally posted by Scoobless
Like in the Authority?

Which marital arts are we talking about?

naughty

From what I have read of Authority, which admitedly is limited, yes probably just like that!

The ancient and mystical art of North Yorkshire, Ecky Thump, no one can beat an Ecky Thump master! 😎

blowing up someone's head with a punch happens in various what ifs as well.

there's some irony there. 🙂

Originally posted by leonidas
blowing up someone's head with a punch happens in various what ifs as well.

there's some irony there. 🙂

Like in "What If a Class 100 was written properly"? 😆

😂

Originally posted by Hercules

But Marital arts skill in the comic world is the plot device that is used

Ok but people gaining powers from radiation shouldnt happen either. Also every class 100 should be bullet proof if MA skills are plot devices then so are my prvious examples. I dont even think its a plot device I just think the laws of physics are different.

Originally posted by Newjak
No I'm not.

The question posed was should MA's be enough to help street levelrs take down class 100s. I answered the question was all and the answer is no.

This has nothing to do with me nitpicking comics I was simply answering the question being asked.

Are you sure? Do you have a problem with class 100s

1. not being bulletproof.

2. not being able to leap put of orbit at supersonic speed.

Originally posted by Newjak
Still just for fun here are some various points of stupidity involved with comic MAs 😛

I hope that this is not in response to my post because if it is you have missed the point, but i'll respond to some of the posts.

Originally posted by Newjak

1) That by training yourself in many styles you are automatically better than someone who has learned less styles than you.

Thats true.

Originally posted by Newjak

2) That by training yourself non stop you all of sudden get superhuman agility

Well conisdering that human beings were experimented on by the Celestials, The Supreme intelligence stated that one day all human beings woiuld have vast psionic powers and even normal human beings can gain powers from exposure to radiation and practicning magic, why is it illogical to think they can get superhuman skills from training? 😐

Originally posted by Newjak

and speed to out react people with real superhuman abilities

The logic behind it is that the MA has superhuman stats and lots of skill but the other person with "real" superhuman powers has less skill. This is why Cap would get his ass kicked by Wonder Man he is superhuman but with alot of skill.

Originally posted by Newjak

3) That by rolling with a class 100 punch that it completely negates the entire blow. Despite the fact that you are still probably getting hit with no less than 25 tons of force.

Who cares they are superhumanly skilled. Bullseye make paper aeroplanes go through windows. Dr Doom can build time machines. Cap rolls with class 100 punches. Cap by the way has taken a bullet to the head and is already wearing kevlar.

Originally posted by Newjak

4) That somehow your blows hit with greater force and impact than a bullet just because you learned how to hit someone

Well considering that Cap can see bullets in slow motion and is one of the greatest MAs on earth...yeah why not.

Originally posted by Newjak

5) That pressure points and weak spots (like behind the the knee) are still exploitable despite the person's body basically being stronger than steel girdles.

Yeah thats true but people like Cap already have low superhuman strength and alot of skill, so they will be applying superhuman force to a part of the body that is sufficently less superhumanly durable.

Bullseye can make papera eroplanes go through windows. Dr Doom builds time machines Cap can exploit a class 100s knees.

Originally posted by Newjak

6) That weapons of great durability actually somehow allow someone greater hitting power despite the fact it is still the force behind the blow that matters.

Not if you use the edge. Wolverine claws are supersharp because they are made of indestructible material. Therefore the edge of Caps shield would be similar. Cap already has low superhuman strength and as skilled in H2H as Bullseye is in throwing stuff. It dont matter how skilled yopu are yopur not throwing a paper aeroplane through a window...but the laws of phsyics are different.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Ok but people gaining powers from radiation shouldnt happen either. Also every class 100 should be bullet proof if MA skills are plot devices then so are my prvious examples. I dont even think its a plot device I just think the laws of physics are different.

Its a comic, really 99% of the things that happen shouldn't thats where the suspension of disbelief comes in.

Yes Radiation giving you powers is a plot device, cause in reality it would just kill you.

I don't even see what point your making, if the laws of Phsyics are different in comics then hey, thats another plot device.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Ok but people gaining powers from radiation shouldnt happen either. Also every class 100 should be bullet proof if MA skills are plot devices then so are my prvious examples. I dont even think its a plot device I just think the laws of physics are different.

Are you sure? Do you have a problem with class 100s

1. not being bulletproof.

2. not being able to leap put of orbit at supersonic speed.

I hope that this is not in response to my post because if it is you have missed the point, but i'll respond to some of the posts.

Thats true.

Well conisdering that human beings were experimented on by the Celestials, The Supreme intelligence stated that one day all human beings woiuld have vast psionic powers and even normal human beings can gain powers from exposure to radiation and practicning magic, why is it illogical to think they can get superhuman skills from training? 😐

The logic behind it is that the MA has superhuman stats and lots of skill but the other person with "real" superhuman powers has less skill. This is why Cap would get his ass kicked by Wonder Man he is superhuman but with alot of skill.

Who cares they are superhumanly skilled. Bullseye make paper aeroplanes go through windows. Dr Doom can build time machines. Cap rolls with class 100 punches. Cap by the way has taken a bullet to the head and is already wearing kevlar.

Well considering that Cap can see bullets in slow motion and is one of the greatest MAs on earth...yeah why not.

Yeah thats true but people like Cap already have low superhuman strength and alot of skill, so they will be applying superhuman force to a part of the body that is sufficently less superhumanly durable.

Bullseye can make papera eroplanes go through windows. Dr Doom builds time machines Cap can exploit a class 100s knees.

Not if you use the edge. Wolverine claws are supersharp because they are made of indestructible material. Therefore the edge of Caps shield would be similar. Cap already has low superhuman strength and as skilled in H2H as Bullseye is in throwing stuff. It dont matter how skilled yopu are yopur not throwing a paper aeroplane through a window...but the laws of phsyics are different.

And the answer is that no these kind of things shouldn't happen through MAs