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If I told someone that likes the old Adam West Batman thQUOTE=9255854]Originally posted by Bat Dude
No offense, but you have to be one of the most biased people I've ever seen post... You talk about true Batman fans when YOU can't just accept Burton's films for what they are, FILMS! They're not crap! Tim Burton and the rest of the crew put a lot of time and effort to bring a vision to life. The crew made a film that brought Batman cinema back to the dark roots of the character. (until Schumacher took over and took it in a different, lighter direction) They are not the "Definitive Batman Adaptation" and they never will be... but they are entertaining, and I'll be damned if someone tells me that I'm not a real Batman fan just because I find them to be entertaining and good films!
at they aren't a real Batman fan, would I be right? Absolutely not! And no offense, but you have no proof or right to say someone isn't a real fan. A real Batman fan would accept any form of the character and would not bash it into the ground, because a real fan would see that it is the same character they know and love, only with the visions of someone else... Everyone has there own perfect Batman, and you have to accept that, and try to find the good in it, or you really aren't a true fan... That's why I don't bash B&R or BF anymore, I just say "B&R is a comedy and BF is decent"
Heck, you even let ORGANIC WEBBING get in the way of you enjoying a Spider-Man film, but that's for a different time and place...
If I offended anyone in anyway, I'm very, deeply sorry... But I got angry and sick of all this garbage about "true fans" and "looking the part" and etc. etc. etc.
And I hope that sounds intelligent... [/QUOTE]
well thats just my opinion that people who accept these crapfest Burton Batman movies arent true fans,you dont have to read my posts you know? 🙄 of course they're films,but they're crapfest films that are horribly written and horribly cast just like all of them are other the one and only true batman movie Batman Begins.I already explained to you that batman 89 was a boring snoofest that everytime i sit through the ONLY thing that keeps me awake and from falling asleep in the first hour in a half since its so boring watching people stand around and talk practically the whole damn entire time.of course I let organic webbing keep me from enjoying the spiderman movies,any true spidey fan would.i want to see spiderman on the screen,not this phony neautered man-spider version of sonys. 🙄
l I noticed i forgot to put in something there that I meant to say and the 15 minutes expired so I also want to add that I mean to say on one of those sentences there That the ONLY thing that keeps me awake and from falling asleep in the first hour in a half of that disgusting batman 89 film is looking at the hot looking Kim Basinger. 😄 I already told you its a horribly made FILM because the first hour in a half they are just standing around talking the whole damn freaking time with just a few action scenes here and there in that boring snoozefest of a movie.Like i said,you would expect a BATMAN movie to have TONS of action in it from start to finish like Batman Begins did.I hope someday in the future there is a spiderman begins and he gets to direct that so he get rif of THAT nightmare franchise the way he did with the burton/schumacher franchise.He obviosuly cares about the fans unlike those idiots Burton and Raimi
Originally posted by Bat Dude
No offense, but you have to be one of the most biased people I've ever seen post... You talk about true Batman fans when YOU can't just accept Burton's films for what they are, FILMS! They're not crap! Tim Burton and the rest of the crew put a lot of time and effort to bring a vision to life. The crew made a film that brought Batman cinema back to the dark roots of the character. (until Schumacher took over and took it in a different, lighter direction) They are not the "Definitive Batman Adaptation" and they never will be... but they are entertaining, and I'll be damned if someone tells me that I'm not a real Batman fan just because I find them to be entertaining and good films!If I told someone that likes the old Adam West Batman that they aren't a real Batman fan, would I be right? Absolutely not! And no offense, but you have no proof or right to say someone isn't a real fan. A real Batman fan would accept any form of the character and would not bash it into the ground, because a real fan would see that it is the same character they know and love, only with the visions of someone else... Everyone has there own perfect Batman, and you have to accept that, and try to find the good in it, or you really aren't a true fan... That's why I don't bash B&R or BF anymore, I just say "B&R is a comedy and BF is decent"
Heck, you even let ORGANIC WEBBING get in the way of you enjoying a Spider-Man film, but that's for a different time and place...
If I offended anyone in anyway, I'm very, deeply sorry... But I got angry and sick of all this garbage about "true fans" and "looking the part" and etc. etc. etc.
And I hope that sounds intelligent...
Damn right its was intelligent and you have every right to be annoyed.
Again, no offense Mr. Parker, but some things you use as arguments against Burton are pretty biased, shallow, and are double standards... You continually point out every flaw Burton's movies had but never once have I heard you point out a single flaw in Batman Begins... And don't tell me it didn't have any, because by your logic, it does...
(Note: I'm not bashing Batman Begins, I do not bash anything Batman, I'm merely proving a point)
Ok, so based on your logic of grading Batman movies as crap....
Katie Holmes: She can't be in a Batman movie, she doesn't have the ability, horrible casting choice... -1
Ras Al Ghul teaches Bruce: Ras never taught Bruce in the comics (just like Joker never killed the Waynes, right?), so it's not a true presentation of the character... -2
Flass: Mark Boone Jr. doesn't look anything like the Flass in the comics (just like Keaton Batman, right?), horrible casting choice... -3
Commissioner Loeb: Colin McFarlane doesn't look anything like the Loeb in the comics (just like Nicholson Joker, right?), horrible casting choice... -4
Bruce/Batman left Ras to die twice: Batman would never just leave someone to die (just like the Bat Body Count, right?), even if it is a villain... -5
Falcone: Tom Wilkinson doesn't look anything like the Falcone in the comics (Falcone should look like Don Corleone), horrible casting choice... -6
Ras is from the Middle East, not the Orient: Ras lived in the Middle East in the comics, so oops, sorry, wrong location... -7
See? I can make half-assed arguments against a film too, Mr. Parker... By your logic, Batman Begins took just as many liberties as Batman 89 did, and thus, isn't the "Definitive Batman Adaptation" everyone says it is... By your logic, we should be forming angry mobs around Nolan's house, complaining about Mark Boone Jr. being Flass and Batman pretty much killing Ras Al Ghul twice in one movie... See, your arguments about bad casting and killing are biased, as Batman Begins had it's share of both...
So, in hindsight, your arguments about "horrible casting decisions" are shallow and biased and your arguments about Batman killing is a double standard, I say this "So it's ok for Bruce/Batman to leave Ras Al Ghul to die twice in one film but it's not ok for Batman to blow up a chemical factory that was spreading poison through the city, killing many innocents?" That, my friend, is a double standard...
(Note: I'm NOT bashing Batman Begins at all, I'm merely using Mr. Parker's logic at grading a Batman film to expose the biased nature of it)
Originally posted by Bat Dude
Again, no offense Mr. Parker, but some things you use as arguments against Burton are pretty biased, shallow, and are double standards... You continually point out every flaw Burton's movies had but never once have I heard you point out a single flaw in Batman Begins... And don't tell me it didn't have any, because by your logic, it does...(Note: I'm not bashing Batman Begins, I do not bash anything Batman, I'm merely proving a point)
Ok, so based on your logic of grading Batman movies as crap....
Katie Holmes: She can't be in a Batman movie, she doesn't have the ability, horrible casting choice... -1
Ras Al Ghul teaches Bruce: Ras never taught Bruce in the comics (just like Joker never killed the Waynes, right?), so it's not a true presentation of the character... -2
Flass: Mark Boone Jr. doesn't look anything like the Flass in the comics (just like Keaton Batman, right?), horrible casting choice... -3
Commissioner Loeb: Colin McFarlane doesn't look anything like the Loeb in the comics (just like Nicholson Joker, right?), horrible casting choice... -4
Bruce/Batman left Ras to die twice: Batman would never just leave someone to die (just like the Bat Body Count, right?), even if it is a villain... -5
Falcone: Tom Wilkinson doesn't look anything like the Falcone in the comics (Falcone should look like Don Corleone), horrible casting choice... -6
Ras is from the Middle East, not the Orient: Ras lived in the Middle East in the comics, so oops, sorry, wrong location... -7
See? I can make half-assed arguments against a film too, Mr. Parker... By your logic, Batman Begins took just as many liberties as Batman 89 did, and thus, isn't the "Definitive Batman Adaptation" everyone says it is... By your logic, we should be forming angry mobs around Nolan's house, complaining about Mark Boone Jr. being Flass and Batman pretty much killing Ras Al Ghul twice in one movie... See, your arguments about bad casting and killing are biased, as Batman Begins had it's share of both...
So, in hindsight, your arguments about "horrible casting decisions" are shallow and biased and your arguments about Batman killing is a double standard, I say this "So it's ok for Bruce/Batman to leave Ras Al Ghul to die twice in one film but it's not ok for Batman to blow up a chemical factory that was spreading poison through the city, killing many innocents?" That, my friend, is a double standard...
(Note: I'm NOT bashing Batman Begins at all, I'm merely using Mr. Parker's logic at grading a Batman film to expose the biased nature of it)
My friend, I understand completely what you are saying.
Originally posted by Bat Dude
Again, no offense Mr. Parker, but some things you use as arguments against Burton are pretty biased, shallow, and are double standards... You continually point out every flaw Burton's movies had but never once have I heard you point out a single flaw in Batman Begins... And don't tell me it didn't have any, because by your logic, it does...(Note: I'm not bashing Batman Begins, I do not bash anything Batman, I'm merely proving a point)
Ok, so based on your logic of grading Batman movies as crap....
Katie Holmes: She can't be in a Batman movie, she doesn't have the ability, horrible casting choice... -1
Ras Al Ghul teaches Bruce: Ras never taught Bruce in the comics (just like Joker never killed the Waynes, right?), so it's not a true presentation of the character... -2
Flass: Mark Boone Jr. doesn't look anything like the Flass in the comics (just like Keaton Batman, right?), horrible casting choice... -3
Commissioner Loeb: Colin McFarlane doesn't look anything like the Loeb in the comics (just like Nicholson Joker, right?), horrible casting choice... -4
Bruce/Batman left Ras to die twice: Batman would never just leave someone to die (just like the Bat Body Count, right?), even if it is a villain... -5
Falcone: Tom Wilkinson doesn't look anything like the Falcone in the comics (Falcone should look like Don Corleone), horrible casting choice... -6
Ras is from the Middle East, not the Orient: Ras lived in the Middle East in the comics, so oops, sorry, wrong location... -7
See? I can make half-assed arguments against a film too, Mr. Parker... By your logic, Batman Begins took just as many liberties as Batman 89 did, and thus, isn't the "Definitive Batman Adaptation" everyone says it is... By your logic, we should be forming angry mobs around Nolan's house, complaining about Mark Boone Jr. being Flass and Batman pretty much killing Ras Al Ghul twice in one movie... See, your arguments about bad casting and killing are biased, as Batman Begins had it's share of both...
So, in hindsight, your arguments about "horrible casting decisions" are shallow and biased and your arguments about Batman killing is a double standard, I say this "So it's ok for Bruce/Batman to leave Ras Al Ghul to die twice in one film but it's not ok for Batman to blow up a chemical factory that was spreading poison through the city, killing many innocents?" That, my friend, is a double standard...
(Note: I'm NOT bashing Batman Begins at all, I'm merely using Mr. Parker's logic at grading a Batman film to expose the biased nature of it)
I have never denied that Batman Begins did things in the movies that were different from the comics,I didnt like what they did to the batmobile for instance, but I have said countless of times before that Begins was 100' times better than Batman 89 was mainly because Bale unlike keaton at least looked the part and it had tons of action in it.well those characters you mentioned I dont know of,I just know that from what i have seen by others on message boards like punky hermy and bakerboy,is that they have the same agreements as me.Maybe if I was into batman as much as I am spiderman and knew all those characters.I WOULD be pissed but not getting THOSE characters right is not ANYWHERE near as important as getting someone who looks the part of the main character BATMAN. oh please,not saving someone and cowardly murdering people like he did in the burton batman films are two total different things and according to YOUR logic,I should blindly love the man-spider movies if they gave him 8 arms as well and not let that ruin the movie for me,oh please. 🙄 after all according to your logic,if I shouldnt let organics keep me from enjoing that movie-since YOU brought that up,then I ALSO shouldnt let him having 8 arms in those movies keep me from enjoying it either. 🙄 okay I see. 😆 😆 😂 😆
seriously its time to end this,this will just go on and on forever.
First of all, Spider-Man did have 8 arms at one point in time in the comics, so yes, I'd only assume you'd be ok with it since it DID come straight out of the comic book...
Second of all, you should be overall open minded when it comes to a character you like... It's just someone else's vision spliced on to it, which makes for a different, interesting, unique take on the character you thought you knew so well...
Third of all, letting someone die is very much like murder, you know they'll die, but you don't make an active effort to save them... You cowardly let them die because you are scared of what they'll do if they survive the ordeal...You let them die because you think they're unable of being saved, and that's exactly what Batman opposed in Begins, that nothing is beyond saving, yet he let Ras die for that same reason... But if we're going by "comic book Batman" and not any other director's vision, he wouldn't do that... He wouldn't leave the fake Ras to die in the monastery and he wouldn't let Ras die on the monorail... He wouldn't let any of that happen because he made a promise to never kill, it's in his code of honor... Sure BB Batman never killed anyone in the traditional sense, but he let Ras die, and that's just as bad... So according to your logic, BB Batman is just as cowardly...
Well, now that I'm done with my little rant, I think I'll end by saying Burton's Batman is enjoyable to me, and I've read Batman comics and watched Batman tv shows and movies and I all around have knowledge about the core character and how he evolved, so do you judge me as "a non fan" just because I watch and enjoy Burton's Batman? I'll let you guys decide, maybe I'll make a poll about it...
Originally posted by Mr Parker
I have never denied that Batman Begins did things in the movies that were different from the comics,I didnt like what they did to the batmobile for instance,
Well there you go thats one point to Burtons Batman the Batmobile was better.
Originally posted by Mr Parker
but I have said countless of times before that Begins was 100' times better than Batman 89 was mainly because Bale unlike keaton at least looked the part and it had tons of action in it.well those characters you mentioned I dont know of,I just know that from what i have seen by others on message boards like punky hermy and bakerboy,is that they have the same agreements as me.Maybe if I was into batman as much as I am spiderman and knew all those characters.I WOULD be pissed but not getting THOSE characters right is not ANYWHERE near as important as getting someone who looks the part of the main character BATMAN.
Thats true but getting supporting characters correct is important as well you were also b*tching about Robin in Batman Forever.
Originally posted by Mr Parker
The thing that ruind that movie for me more than anything else though was the horrible casting choice of chris o'donnel as robin.
If you want to ***** about Robin why arent you b*tching about Ras Al Ghul? Liam Neeson doesnt like Arabic to me he looks very European.
Originally posted by Mr Parker
oh please,not saving someone and cowardly murdering people like he did in the burton batman films are two total different things and according to YOUR logic,I should blindly love the man-spider movies if they gave him 8 arms as well and not let that ruin the movie for me,oh please. 🙄 after all according to your logic,if I shouldnt let organics keep me from enjoing that movie-since YOU brought that up,then I ALSO shouldnt let him having 8 arms in those movies keep me from enjoying it either. 🙄 okay I see. 😆 😆 😂 😆seriously its time to end this,this will just go on and on forever.
Thats absolute rubbish that the same as murder. Batman could have saved Ras but he didnt, therefore he let him die. Furthermore didnt Batman kill The Joker in DKR and the leader of the mutants? So its ok for Batman to kill in DKR but when he does in Burtons movie hes a coward.......wow.
Furthermore arent some parts of Gotham gothic, like Arkham Asylum? I can show you scans of how Arkham Asylum looks in the comic book. In the movie its modern. Burtons Gotham was better as well.
Has Batman ever had a fear of bats being part of what made him Batman? As far as I know DKR never showed him fearing bats and neither in Year One, Batman admired bats and the rabbit hole incident was refered to in Burtons Batman when he said "They're great survivors."
So....
Points against BB
Ras Al ghul was not Arabic
The batmobile sucked
Gotham wasnt gothic
Points for Burton
Batman killed, but Batman killed in DKR
Batmobile was better
Gotham in general was better.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Well there you go thats one point to Burtons Batman the Batmobile was better.Thats true but getting supporting characters correct is important as well you were also b*tching about Robin in Batman Forever.
If you want to ***** about Robin why arent you b*tching about Ras Al Ghul? Liam Neeson doesnt like Arabic to me he looks very European.
Thats absolute rubbish that the same as murder. Batman could have saved Ras but he didnt, therefore he let him die. Furthermore didnt Batman kill The Joker in DKR and the leader of the mutants? So its ok for Batman to kill in DKR but when he does in Burtons movie hes a coward.......wow.
Furthermore arent some parts of Gotham gothic, like Arkham Asylum? I can show you scans of how Arkham Asylum looks in the comic book. In the movie its modern. Burtons Gotham was better as well.
Has Batman ever had a fear of bats being part of what made him Batman? As far as I know DKR never showed him fearing bats and neither in Year One, Batman admired bats and the rabbit hole incident was refered to in Burtons Batman when he said "They're great survivors."
So....
Points against BBRas Al ghul was not Arabic
The batmobile sucked
Gotham wasnt gothicPoints for Burton
Batman killed, but Batman killed in DKR
Batmobile was better
Gotham in general was better.
Yes I know I was bitching about Robin in Batman Forever because he is his partner so thats imperative that they get him right.with the OTHER supporting characters, its not that big a deal.
did you even bother to read my post? I said that maybe if I was as familiar with the batman comics as I am with spiderman I would have b!tched about Ras Al Goul as well but like i said,I am not near as familiar with batman as I am with spiderman.
No its NOT rubbish.Not saving someone is not murder and also it would have been stupid for him to save him anyways.Look at the gratitude he showed him when he saved him before.He went out and tried to destroy the city of gothem.He would have done the same thing if he had saved him again.Also Ras Al Goul was no normal criminal like say Joker or penguin where they would easily have not had a chance to escape that train.we dont know for sure beyond a doubt that he DIDNT die.they never showed that happen.Ras Al Goul is such a good escape artist Batman probably figured he would escape and get out of that train somehow anyways.dont be surprised if he is in a sequal int near future.
Let me guess DKR was written sometime like in the 80's or 90's right? well Batman didnt kill the joker for over 50 years in the comics then obviously,pretty idiotic to go and betray the original comics and have him killed off immediately in his FIRST movie. the bastard. 😠 same with penguin.
at least Nolan made an arkham.Burtons films never did.I got the impression Nolans Gothem looked gothic.Burton had the right idea of the set design for Gothem making it dark like he did but he went overboard and made it TOO dark to the point you could not see what was going on in the night scenes.I like to be able to actually see what I am looking at.Nolan had just the right perfect touch though making it dark and gothic but not too dark to the point where you could not see what was going on though.
stop using DKR as a reference because again didnt DKR not come around until like the 80's at least?
Originally posted by Mr Parker
Yes I know I was bitching about Robin in Batman Forever because he is his partner so thats imperative that they get him right.with the OTHER supporting characters, its not that big a deal.did you even bother to read my post? I said that maybe if I was as familiar with the batman comics as I am with spiderman I would have b!tched about Ras Al Goul as well but like i said,I am not near as familiar with batman as I am with spiderman.
No its NOT rubbish.Not saving someone is not murder and also it would have been stupid for him to save him anyways.Look at the gratitude he showed him when he saved him before.He went out and tried to destroy the city of gothem.He would have done the same thing if he had saved him again.Also Ras Al Goul was no normal criminal like say Joker or penguin where they would easily have not had a chance to escape that train.we dont know for sure beyond a doubt that he DIDNT die.they never showed that happen.Ras Al Goul is such a good escape artist Batman probably figured he would escape and get out of that train somehow anyways.dont be surprised if he is in a sequal int near future.
Let me guess DKR was written sometime like in the 80's or 90's right? well Batman didnt kill the joker for over 50 years in the comics then obviously,pretty idiotic to go and betray the original comics and have him killed off immediately in his FIRST movie. the bastard. 😠 same with penguin.
at least Nolan made an arkham.Burtons films never did.I got the impression Nolans Gothem looked gothic.Burton had the right idea of the set design for Gothem making it dark like he did but he went overboard and made it TOO dark to the point you could not see what was going on in the night scenes.I like to be able to actually see what I am looking at.Nolan had just the right perfect touch though making it dark and gothic but not too dark to the point where you could not see what was going on though.
stop using DKR as a reference because again didnt DKR not come around until like the 80's at least?
What a load of crap. I hope everybody else can see the rubbish hes coming out with especially his last point.
BB is based more on Batman Year One, and is quite similar to it. I think Batman year one came out after DKR, so by your logic BB is a load of crap because it based on something that came out in the late 80s.
Anyway thats you just looking for an excuse because we can use DKR to justify some of the things Burton did, so now all of a sudden you invented this principle that DKR cant be used because it came out in the late 80s.
I'll respond to the other parts later but I just had to mention this main point.
Originally posted by Alfheim
What a load of crap. I hope everybody else can see the rubbish hes coming out with especially his last point.BB is based more on Batman Year One, and is quite similar to it. I think Batman year one came out after DKR, so by your logic BB is a load of crap because it based on something that came out in the late 80s.
Anyway thats you just looking for an excuse because we can use DKR to justify some of the things Burton did, so now all of a sudden you invented this principle that DKR cant be used because it came out in the late 80s.
I'll respond to the other parts later but I just had to mention this main point.
Great points, excellent post... 🙂
Originally posted by Bat Dude
First of all, Spider-Man did have 8 arms at one point in time in the comics, so yes, I'd only assume you'd be ok with it since it DID come straight out of the comic book...Second of all, you should be overall open minded when it comes to a character you like... It's just someone else's vision spliced on to it, which makes for a different, interesting, unique take on the character you thought you knew so well...
Third of all, letting someone die is very much like murder, you know they'll die, but you don't make an active effort to save them... You cowardly let them die because you are scared of what they'll do if they survive the ordeal...You let them die because you think they're unable of being saved, and that's exactly what Batman opposed in Begins, that nothing is beyond saving, yet he let Ras die for that same reason... But if we're going by "comic book Batman" and not any other director's vision, he wouldn't do that... He wouldn't leave the fake Ras to die in the monastery and he wouldn't let Ras die on the monorail... He wouldn't let any of that happen because he made a promise to never kill, it's in his code of honor... Sure BB Batman never killed anyone in the traditional sense, but he let Ras die, and that's just as bad... So according to your logic, BB Batman is just as cowardly...
Well, now that I'm done with my little rant, I think I'll end by saying Burton's Batman is enjoyable to me, and I've read Batman comics and watched Batman tv shows and movies and I all around have knowledge about the core character and how he evolved, so do you judge me as "a non fan" just because I watch and enjoy Burton's Batman? I'll let you guys decide, maybe I'll make a poll about it...
actually No I wouldnt.That actually pissed me off big time when they did that in the comics.thank god it was just temporarily.just because they did that in the comics doesnt mean i want EVERYTHING that was done in the comics done the same way in the movies. 🙄 for example in the comics,the green goblin threw pumpkin bombs at spidey,the pumpkin bombs were real pumpkins, where in the movies when the goblin threw pumpkin bombs at him,the pumpkin bombs were metal.see I was cool with THAT change because it was a reasonable change that made sense.Im all for changes as long as they make sense.organics was a pointless and idiotic change that made no seense at all.it was only done because that idiot Raimi was too damn lazy to take the 5 extra minutes of screentime it would take to put the mechs in.
I already addressed that about Ras.He isnt your ordinary criminal.Batman knew that and that he would probably find some way to escape anyways so with a criminal like him,I did not mind that he did not rescue him.AGAIN he already rescued him before and look at the thanks he showed him. 🙄 and i didnt say your a non fan,just not a true fan.which again is just my opinion so no need to have a cow about it. 😄
Its it had LITTLE action in it. Well maybe that poster Punky Hermy that you mentioned said that before but I've never come across anybody before that I have ever heard say that myself on any message boards over the years.However I have indeed come across tons of people such as Mr Parker who they also hated it because of the lack of action in it and their disgust over Keaton being cast in the role.
I fail to see how thats crap when saying he didnt look the part.For Batman,thats essential to at least come close to looking the part and having the right physical build. (sarcastic) If you dont,you bring no credibility to the role and Keaton was no exception.There really are thousands out there who hated the choice of Keaton because of those valid reasons.Kilmer wooden? Okay maybe as Batman.I'll admit keaton was a decent Batman but he was a horrible Bruce Wayne.He acted nothing at all like him.Kilmer at least did that and gave a great performance as Bruce Wayne as well.Bale on the other hand was better than either as Both Bruce Wayne and Batman in his portrayal easily.True,we cant say his Batman was crap because he didnt look the part but we can say his Bruce Wayne was crap for not looking the part.a guy with a rug on his head because he was almost bald? what a joke for a Batman movie.
Also thats absurd and total rubbish to say that Batman murdered that guy in Batman Begins just because he didnt save him.Not saving him AFTER he went out and tried to destroy a city after he had already saved him once before and cowardly murdering someone like Batman did in those pitiful Burton Batman movies are like comparing apples and oranges,anybody with logic and common sense would know that
I'm sorry I just don't get the appeal of Val Kilmer as Batman besides the hard on fanboys had that he looked like their fantasy of Bruce Wayne. His performance was one of the worst.
"I'll get drive thru"
"I've got to get you out of those clothes."
"Harvey, I'm Batman!"
Among other hideously delivered lines. He fell flat as hell. I don't care if Keaton didn't look like Bruce Wayne in the comics like I said I don't think Toby M looks like Peter Parker either but it worked and Keaton overall was able to sell it too.
That argument to me has always remained shallow. Just like Daniel Craig as James Bond. Not the handsomest guy in the face but apparently he sold it.