Anyone here had enough of the new hate towards "Batman" (1989)?

Originally posted by xNIXSONx
hmm understandable i guess. Well i guess being the devil's advocate here, posting against Burton's bat flick, i gotta say, why hasnt Keaton's Bruce/Batman realized that must stay on one side of the line as a vigalante but also as a hero, comparing this to Anakin in the prequel trilogy of his journey from light to dark, as he gave into vengeance, etc.

Burton does seem new to the superhero type stuff, the only thing that he did that was experienced was create a morbid, unreallistic, and unproportionate world that you can find in all his films, and not only that but having a Batman that is introduced as if he was crime fighting for sometime, but who in reality is inexperienced, being beaten by ONE of joker's thugs, being shot down in a Batplane by a handgun...

yeah, i guess you could argue that he had to kill those bad guys cuz he was in a life or death situation, but there's always a choice, he couldve pulled out his grappling hook or not turn on the NOS or afterburners

Originally posted by Bat Dude
Well, there was fake Ras, who he just left there to die, not really caring what happened to him, and then there was the numerous ninja that didn't survive because he intentionally blew up the monastery... (sounds like the Axis Chemicals situation, doesn't it?) And then he left the real Ras to die on the monorail (though it remains to be seen if he survived), again, completely contradicting his "no one is beyond saving" motto...

So, actually, the Begins body count is pretty high, if you want to get technical...

he didn't kill fake Ras, he tosses a hot iron rod upstairs somewhere which landed on gunpowder, saved (the real Ras) and left sh*t to explode and even then, the ninjas that "died" from the monastery reappeared later in the film.

as i stated before, Ras' fate was the result of his own doing. If you guys aren't happy with Batman Begins, and prefer Burton's batman, jeez, i dont know where ive been doing, i dont know how you people sleep at night, sometimes this is a sick twisted world.

and if Burton's batman just started crimefighting, why does he look like he's 40 and where did he get all his stuff...

Originally posted by xNIXSONx
he didn't kill fake Ras, he tosses a hot iron rod upstairs somewhere which landed on gunpowder, saved (the real Ras) and left sh*t to explode and even then, the ninjas that "died" from the monastery reappeared later in the film.

as i stated before, Ras' fate was the result of his own doing. If you guys aren't happy with Batman Begins, and prefer Burton's batman, jeez, i dont know where ive been doing, i dont know how you people sleep at night, sometimes this is a sick twisted world.

and if Burton's batman just started crimefighting, why does he look like he's 40 and where did he get all his stuff...

I think Burton's Batman was doing vigilante stuff for a while but I think the Batman persona didn't develop until later in the myth because the criminals had too vague a description of him on the rooftop and he was considered a rumor and a myth that was fresh and new among the press so I don't think he had been operating for that long in the shadows, but he could have been. I just doubt he was taking things like the Batmobile out unnoticed.

Originally posted by SelinaAndBruce
Well just because someone complains about something in a movie does not mean they don't like it. I'm not all involved in it like that there are things I don't like about the three Batman movies I love but I'm not one of these pissy little fanboys/gurls who sit up and ***** and moan about one director over the next. Like I said I am a laid back Batman fan I enjoy any well made film about the character even if some liberties are taken as can be expected anyway.

I think Burton's Batman was doing vigilante stuff for a while but I think the Batman persona didn't develop until later in the myth because the criminals had too vague a description of him on the rooftop and he was considered a rumor and a myth that was fresh and new among the press so I don't think he had been operating for that long in the shadows, but he could have been. I just doubt he was taking things like the Batmobile out unnoticed.

im not a pissy moaning fanboy crying over the past but im trying to make a point here and that "burton is a moron when it comes to batman". Directors can make or break a film, its people like Peter Jackson who truly knows how to create a film of epic proportions, or you can pick joel schumacher to direct a film...I admire what Zack Snyder did with 300 and Frank Miller's exact adaptions of his graphic novels, its beautiful, and i love what Chris Nolan did with Batman, and i pray Jon Favreau does a good Iron Man movie cuz god, he sounds pretty damn convincing when he said he's bringing iron man back to its roots, and doing a 'true to its source' kinda there, where as no altered origins or powers just because he thinks its cooler (yes references to organics and sandman)

and yeah i can remember now that Batman 89, bats just started out, with the press ranting n whatnot over a 6 ft bat, its just, how the hell did he get all that stuff...lol

problem with Burton's batfilms was that it didnt focus too much on Batman...it focused on the dark, sinister, evil, deprived, perverse, misunderstood, and suffering villains that appeals to Burton...man is he sick minded...i think Burton's film dived deep into the villains and their motive were clear, what we didnt get to understand well was Batman and Bruce himself, a young man, a donald trump of his day w/ money, but where's the women? where's the publicity? In Bruce Wayne's place, was a half balding pudgy beer belly loner, who hangs out behind two way mirrors while people sample wine in his mansion...

Originally posted by xNIXSONx
im not a pissy moaning fanboy crying over the past but im trying to make a point here and that "burton is a moron when it comes to batman". Directors can make or break a film, its people like Peter Jackson who truly knows how to create a film of epic proportions, or you can pick joel schumacher to direct a film...I admire what Zack Snyder did with 300 and Frank Miller's exact adaptions of his graphic novels, its beautiful, and i love what Chris Nolan did with Batman, and i pray Jon Favreau does a good Iron Man movie cuz god, he sounds pretty damn convincing when he said he's bringing iron man back to its roots, and doing a 'true to its source' kinda there, where as no altered origins or powers just because he thinks its cooler (yes references to organics and sandman)

and yeah i can remember now that Batman 89, bats just started out, with the press ranting n whatnot over a 6 ft bat, its just, how the hell did he get all that stuff...lol

problem with Burton's batfilms was that it didnt focus too much on Batman...it focused on the dark, sinister, evil, deprived, perverse, misunderstood, and suffering villains that appeals to Burton...man is he sick minded...i think Burton's film dived deep into the villains and their motive were clear, what we didnt get to understand well was Batman and Bruce himself, a young man, a donald trump of his day w/ money, but where's the women? where's the publicity? In Bruce Wayne's place, was a half balding pudgy beer belly loner, who hangs out behind two way mirrors while people sample wine in his mansion...

I agree with some of what you're saying.

Originally posted by xNIXSONx
if you watch carefully, Ras closes his eyes before the train disconnects with the rail and launches into the building. That means, he accepts his own fate and demise, he was not murdered by any degree, nor did he commit suicide, he simply died by no ones hands but his own...or by a rail accident

Duhhhhhh. Now I Know how Bardock feels. durfist ,somenody please explain this to him again.

Originally posted by xNIXSONx
im not a pissy moaning fanboy crying over the past but im trying to make a point here and that "burton is a moron when it comes to batman". Directors can make or break a film,

There were quite a few things that annoyed me about Begins but it was still a good movie and I wouldn't sit around claiming Nolan is an idiot even if I did think the movie overall was rather uninspired and so desperately flat and unimaginative. It was still a well made movie and the story was good.

Originally posted by SelinaAndBruce
And I don't think Tim Burton broke the film. It was a well made entertaining film there are a few things that could have improved generally:more focus on Batman, Batman's martial arts, and maybe Batman not killing, though I did not care that much. But because there were things wrong with it doesn't mean it was a bad movie or that Burton is a moron IMO.

There were quite a few things that annoyed me about Begins but it was still a good movie and I wouldn't sit around claiming Nolan is an idiot even if I did think the movie overall was rather uninspired and so desperately flat and unimaginative. It was still a well made movie and the story was good.

well in terms of success, a broad audience loved batman 89 like Spider-Man 1-3 (despite the changes, why do they have to change so much stuff anyways?) and maybe in the future spider-man will be looked at just like Batman 89, a financial success, yet a mediocre film when compared to a later remake or re-envisioning (to me not horrible but the Spiderman films could be so much better, especially spiderman 3).

I loved Batman Begins, it was real and gritty almost a slap in the face of how the transition was from previous batfilms to this one. I love how it was grounded in realism, i understand why the fight scenes were done the way they were, i loved the orchestral score and the tone of the film. I can guess we wont ever see villains like Clayface or KillerCroc but its no big deal to me. Well afterall this i dont know if we have come to common ground or an understanding at all lol i still think Burtons a moron but atleast we like Batman Begins

Originally posted by xNIXSONx
yo STFU, (just kiddin lol)

well, it could make or break what many percieve as [B]a hero. A hero holds many morals and boundaries that cannot be crossed, there are great differences between ex// Superman and The Punisher.

If Superman burnt a robber to death using his heat vision, if Spider-Man intentionally pushed the killer of Uncle Ben out of a warehouse window, If the Thing clobbered a mugger causing him to die from internal bleeding. IF BATMAN RAN OVER, SHOT AND USED HIS TURBO ENGINES TO BURN BAD GUYS , i ask you, where is the heroism in that

Daredevil left Kingpin to the authorities, Fantastic Four left Dr Doom in a shipping crate, Batman left Carmine Falcone tied up, and Keaton left his victims in a pool of their own blood with bullet wounds, extreme degree burns from a jet engine on the back of the Batmobile, and tread marks...what kind of hero is that? [/B]

💃 💃 🤘

Originally posted by xNIXSONx
im not a pissy moaning fanboy crying over the past but im trying to make a point here and that "burton is a moron when it comes to batman". Directors can make or break a film, its people like Peter Jackson who truly knows how to create a film of epic proportions, or you can pick joel schumacher to direct a film...I admire what Zack Snyder did with 300 and Frank Miller's exact adaptions of his graphic novels, its beautiful, and i love what Chris Nolan did with Batman, and i pray Jon Favreau does a good Iron Man movie cuz god, he sounds pretty damn convincing when he said he's bringing iron man back to its roots, and doing a 'true to its source' kinda there, where as no altered origins or powers just because he thinks its cooler (yes references to organics and sandman)

and yeah i can remember now that Batman 89, bats just started out, with the press ranting n whatnot over a 6 ft bat, its just, how the hell did he get all that stuff...lol

problem with Burton's batfilms was that it didnt focus too much on Batman...it focused on the dark, sinister, evil, deprived, perverse, misunderstood, and suffering villains that appeals to Burton...man is he sick minded...i think Burton's film dived deep into the villains and their motive were clear, what we didnt get to understand well was Batman and Bruce himself, a young man, a donald trump of his day w/ money, but where's the women? where's the publicity? In Bruce Wayne's place, was a half balding pudgy beer belly loner, who hangs out behind two way mirrors while people sample wine in his mansion...

great point,to that logic that would apply to the Keaton/Burton Lovers who piss and moan over the past of the schumacher Batman films as well,that they need to join that group as well of moaning fanboys who cry over the past to make a point. 😆

Great point on Keaton.the Keaton apologists though -as someone else said so brilliantly over on the Burton is a moron thread-lol,they just dont get it though no matter how many times you try and drill it into their heads. also as you said earlier,thats a weak point brought up that he killed any of those ninjas in the cabin fire because all you got to do is look at and freeze the frames and you can see they are going out the windows in the cabins,yes they are on fire but theres no evidence that he killed them.Obviosuly since they came back later,they were just minor scars on their skin that they easily were able to put out the fires on their clothes in the snow.

Originally posted by xNIXSONx
well in terms of success, a broad audience loved batman 89 like Spider-Man 1-3 (despite the changes, why do they have to change so much stuff anyways?) and maybe in the future spider-man will be looked at just like Batman 89, a financial success, yet a mediocre film when compared to a later remake or re-envisioning (to me not horrible but the Spiderman films could be so much better, especially spiderman 3).

I loved Batman Begins, it was real and gritty almost a slap in the face of how the transition was from previous batfilms to this one. I love how it was grounded in realism, i understand why the fight scenes were done the way they were, i loved the orchestral score and the tone of the film. I can guess we wont ever see villains like Clayface or KillerCroc but its no big deal to me. Well afterall this i dont know if we have come to common ground or an understanding at all lol i still think Burtons a moron but atleast we like Batman Begins

Originally posted by Mr Parker
great point,to that logic that would apply to the Keaton/Burton Lovers who piss and moan over the past of the schumacher Batman films as well,that they need to join that group as well of moaning fanboys who cry over the past to make a point. 😆
.

Originally posted by Mr Parker
great point,to that logic that would apply to the Keaton/Burton Lovers who piss and moan over the past of the schumacher Batman films as well,that they need to join that group as well of moaning fanboys who cry over the past to make a point. 😆

Great point on Keaton.the Keaton apologists though -as someone else said so brilliantly over on the Burton is a moron thread-lol,they just dont get it though no matter how many times you try and drill it into their heads. also as you said earlier,thats a weak point brought up that he killed any of those ninjas in the cabin fire because all you got to do is look at and freeze the frames and you can see they are going out the windows in the cabins,yes they are on fire but theres no evidence that he killed them.Obviosuly since they came back later,they were just minor scars on their skin that they easily were able to put out the fires on their clothes in the snow.

yeah exactly, like they did not show any of those ninjas actually dying. Thats why they came back by the masses for the climax!! lol they're ninjas, illusions and stuff!!

i walked away from Batman Begins with a sense of renewal, a breath of fresh air, the fact that they took time to show the journey of Bruce becoming Batman gives the audience more of an idea of why he actually parades around as a bat. I cannot stress enough that Nolan hit the nail straight on the head with Batman Begins

Originally posted by xNIXSONx
yeah exactly, like they did not show any of those ninjas actually dying. Thats why they came back by the masses for the climax!! lol they're ninjas, illusions and stuff!!

Originally posted by SelinaAndBruce
Still doesn't change the fact Bruce didn't care if he killed them or not.

the key line is "he didnt kill them"

he put a simple plan into action, gunpowder igniting and blowing the place up and escape. Any ninjas that did die, did not die by Bruce but by dangerous elements and hazards in the environment, the risk of living within/practicing ninjitsu in a monastery filled with hallucinogens, weapons, fire arms and explosives, its a ticking time bomb waiting to go wrong, they chose to be in the monastery, there are escape routes and everyone always has a choice and they chose to be there...

revenge and justice are very different things. 😉

Originally posted by xNIXSONx
the key line is "he didnt kill them"

he put a simple plan into action, gunpowder igniting and blowing the place up and escape. Any ninjas that did die, did not die by Bruce but by dangerous elements and hazards in the environment, the risk of living within/practicing ninjitsu in a monastery filled with hallucinogens, weapons, fire arms and explosives, its a ticking time bomb waiting to go wrong, they chose to be in the monastery, there are escape routes and everyone always has a choice and they chose to be there...

revenge and justice are very different things. 😉

Well then...

Keaton Batman put a plan into action, placing a bomb and blowing Axis Chemicals up to prevent the poison from doing any more harm to Gotham. Any thugs that did die, did not die by Batman, but by dangerous elements in the environment, the risk of working within/ producing poison in a factory filled with guys with weapons, firearms and explosives, it's a ticking time bomb waiting to go wrong, they choose to be in the factory, there are escape routes and everyone always has a choice and they choose to be there...

Burton Haters, just like "Keaton Apologists" need to make peace, because, to quote Jack Nicholson, "Nobody wants a war", if we can't agree, "we'll just shake and that'll be that." Again, no one said you had to like Burton's movies, but you don't have to completely bury it on a public forum... There are people who like those as films and need to be respected...

Originally posted by Bat Dude

Burton Haters, just like "Keaton Apologists" need to make peace, because, to quote Jack Nicholson, "Nobody wants a war", if we can't agree, "we'll just shake and that'll be that." Again, no one said you had to like Burton's movies, but you don't have to completely bury it on a public forum... There are people who like those as films and need to be respected...

Exactly.

Originally posted by Bat Dude
Well then...

Keaton Batman put a plan into action, placing a bomb and blowing Axis Chemicals up to prevent the poison from doing any more harm to Gotham. Any thugs that did die, did not die by Batman, but by dangerous elements in the environment, the risk of working within/ producing poison in a factory filled with guys with weapons, firearms and explosives, it's a ticking time bomb waiting to go wrong, they choose to be in the factory, there are escape routes and everyone always has a choice and they choose to be there...

Burton Haters, just like "Keaton Apologists" need to make peace, because, to quote Jack Nicholson, "Nobody wants a war", if we can't agree, "we'll just shake and that'll be that." Again, no one said you had to like Burton's movies, but you don't have to completely bury it on a public forum... There are people who like those as films and need to be respected...

This is very true

Originally posted by Bat Dude
Well then...

Keaton Batman put a plan into action, placing a bomb and blowing Axis Chemicals up to prevent the poison from doing any more harm to Gotham. Any thugs that did die, did not die by Batman, but by dangerous elements in the environment, the risk of working within/ producing poison in a factory filled with guys with weapons, firearms and explosives, it's a ticking time bomb waiting to go wrong, they choose to be in the factory, there are escape routes and everyone always has a choice and they choose to be there...

Burton Haters, just like "Keaton Apologists" need to make peace, because, to quote Jack Nicholson, "Nobody wants a war", if we can't agree, "we'll just shake and that'll be that." Again, no one said you had to like Burton's movies, but you don't have to completely bury it on a public forum... There are people who like those as films and need to be respected...

you're good ill give you that 😛

the only way to know for sure is if Keaton's real motive was to infact prevent poison from harming gotham. Because i know Bale's motive was to create a diversion and escape from having to kill the prisoner.

Originally posted by Bat Dude

Again, no one said you had to like Burton's movies, but you don't have to completely bury it on a public forum... There are people who like those as films and need to be respected...

You can say that again. To misquote the upcoming movie "Some men arent looking for anything logical, they cant be bullied, bargained or reasoned with some men just wanna see Burton burn."
😆