First off, since this thread is about the upcoming Spectacular Spider-man series, let me ask you all, have you guys even bothered to watch the trailer? Its pretty obvious that Venom is going to show up in the first season.... they give some pretty dang obvious hints towards his appearance. That and there is concept artwork for Eddie Brock floating around on the net...
Given the blatany shards of proof littered around the wondrous intarweb, I'm going to bet like a blind teenager on eBay that Venom is going to show up.
For those who haven't already seen the trailer, here it is:
http://www.marvel.com/videos/Spectacular_Spider-Man_Animated_Series_Trailer
So until there's as-solid evidence Carnage is going to make a cameo, I'd say stick to the research that should be being done.
Moving on, I'm going to clarify a few things about the old "Who's better: Venom or Carnage?" debate. Its been asked who would win in a fight between Eddie Brock and Cletus Kassady. The answer really depends on the circumstances of the fight. If its a straight out fist fight, Eddie would win. No questions asked. He possesses Olympic strength (as stated in the comics on multiple accounts). Now, if Kassady were able to acquire a weapon, even if its something as small like a knife, would be able to hold his own, to say the least. I honestly think he'd put up a good fight if he had a weapon. To just throw out blind statements like "one is better than the other" is just an ignorance proven through specific scenarios.
Continuing, the topic of Kassady's intelligence level (when compared to Brock's) has been put in question. I know someone used an example in which Venom says to him "Your reign of terror is over" and Carnage replies with "Rain?", claiming that the reason for his doing this was out of stupidity.
TOTALLY untrue. If you would have read his following statement, which of course is "rain?, we're talking hail baby!!!", it becomes quite obvious that Carnage is taunting Venom, twisting his words and throwing them back in Venom's face. Signifying Carnages self-proclaimed superiority. If read or understood any other way, pardon my bluntness, but Carnage is not the idiot the reader is.
Following that, Carnage has had multiple accounts of showing rather exceptional levels of intelligence. For heavens sake, he discovers a way to break his Symbiote's cellular structure down, allowing it the ability to travel through electrical circuits... Something that Venom learned afterwards and was never able to do at such an adept level.
Before I continue, in the comics, Eddie Brock was never a photographer. He was a journalist. And while yes. he is intelligent, his intelligence relies more on book smarts and a large vocabulary. Most of, if not all strategies formulated by Eddie have been formed in collaboration with other people and are more of him just playing a role in the given plan. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Eddie is an idiot, but people seem to think his intelligence level far outweighs that of Kassady's, when it simply isn't true.
As for who's actually stronger in their Symbiote form. The answer is Carnage. As other people have pointed out, within the comics, it states that a Symbiote's offspring is superior because it sheds some of the parent's weaknesses. In the case of Carnage and Venom, the Carnage symbiote is a more powerful entity. This is shown specifically during the Maximum Carnage story arc, when Venom fires a sonic gun at Carnage. Carnage appears to experience very little, if any at all pain. And even advances toward Venom, walking through the sonic blaster's beam. This is something the Venom Symbiote would never be able to do.
Also, another example would be in Carnage's first appearance, it is shown that he can pretty much decimate Spider-man or Venom in a one on one match. On top of that, he can more than hold his own in a two on one battle with Spidey and Venom. And keep in mind, people, that within this story, Kassady had just acquired his Symbiote, so he wasn't even accustomed to his abilities all that well yet.
Someone brought up the point that at the end of the issue, Venom shows outlasts the sonics of the speakers longer than Carnage does. And while this is true, its not due to the Symbiote's natural strength, instead its about willpower. Even in real life, people are able to do extreme acts or deter high levels of pain if they have a strong enough will.
All the battles between the two characters from there on out are circumstantial. Usually siding towards Venom or Spidey getting the win (whether it was easily acquired or not) because they are the heroes of the story (or anti-hero, in Venom's case). Carnage's ability to stand his own also probably weakened due to the characters lack of popularity with fans. Just look at all the people on this forum who say they hate him... Why would Marvel make him win a fight with a crowd like that?
For the record, people, it generally helps to actually read the comics and know what your talking about before you try to argue about this topic, or any topic for that matter.
If needed, I can post scans of the needed comics that support my claims. But I feel, at this point in time, it’s unnecessary.
Originally posted by Mr Parker
man some people dont get it that Venom next to green goblin is probably his most dangerous foe since they are the only two that know his identity.Its a must for venom to be in it.
By “the only two” you mean aside from the 30 or so other villains that do, too (pre-Civil War), right?
Originally posted by kiekan
First off, since this thread is about the upcoming Spectacular Spider-man series, let me ask you all, have you guys even bothered to watch the trailer? Its pretty obvious that Venom is going to show up in the first season.... they give some pretty dang obvious hints towards his appearance. That and there is concept artwork for Eddie Brock floating around on the net...Given the blatany shards of proof littered around the wondrous intarweb, I'm going to bet like a blind teenager on eBay that Venom is going to show up.
For those who haven't already seen the trailer, here it is:
http://www.marvel.com/videos/Spectacular_Spider-Man_Animated_Series_Trailer
So until there's as-solid evidence Carnage is going to make a cameo, I'd say stick to the research that should be being done.
Moving on, I'm going to clarify a few things about the old "Who's better: Venom or Carnage?" debate. Its been asked who would win in a fight between Eddie Brock and Cletus Kassady. The answer really depends on the circumstances of the fight. If its a straight out fist fight, Eddie would win. No questions asked. He possesses Olympic strength (as stated in the comics on multiple accounts). Now, if Kassady were able to acquire a weapon, even if its something as small like a knife, would be able to hold his own, to say the least. I honestly think he'd put up a good fight if he had a weapon. To just throw out blind statements like "one is better than the other" is just an ignorance proven through specific scenarios.
Continuing, the topic of Kassady's intelligence level (when compared to Brock's) has been put in question. I know someone used an example in which Venom says to him "Your reign of terror is over" and Carnage replies with "Rain?", claiming that the reason for his doing this was out of stupidity.
TOTALLY untrue. If you would have read his following statement, which of course is "rain?, we're talking hail baby!!!", it becomes quite obvious that Carnage is taunting Venom, twisting his words and throwing them back in Venom's face. Signifying Carnages self-proclaimed superiority. If read or understood any other way, pardon my bluntness, but Carnage is not the idiot the reader is.
Following that, Carnage has had multiple accounts of showing rather exceptional levels of intelligence. For heavens sake, he discovers a way to break his Symbiote's cellular structure down, allowing it the ability to travel through electrical circuits... Something that Venom learned afterwards and was never able to do at such an adept level.
Before I continue, in the comics, Eddie Brock was never a photographer. He was a journalist. And while yes. he is intelligent, his intelligence relies more on book smarts and a large vocabulary. Most of, if not all strategies formulated by Eddie have been formed in collaboration with other people and are more of him just playing a role in the given plan. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Eddie is an idiot, but people seem to think his intelligence level far outweighs that of Kassady's, when it simply isn't true.
As for who's actually stronger in their Symbiote form. The answer is Carnage. As other people have pointed out, within the comics, it states that a Symbiote's offspring is superior because it sheds some of the parent's weaknesses. In the case of Carnage and Venom, the Carnage symbiote is a more powerful entity. This is shown specifically during the Maximum Carnage story arc, when Venom fires a sonic gun at Carnage. Carnage appears to experience very little, if any at all pain. And even advances toward Venom, walking through the sonic blaster's beam. This is something the Venom Symbiote would never be able to do.
Also, another example would be in Carnage's first appearance, it is shown that he can pretty much decimate Spider-man or Venom in a one on one match. On top of that, he can more than hold his own in a two on one battle with Spidey and Venom. And keep in mind, people, that within this story, Kassady had just acquired his Symbiote, so he wasn't even accustomed to his abilities all that well yet.
Someone brought up the point that at the end of the issue, Venom shows outlasts the sonics of the speakers longer than Carnage does. And while this is true, its not due to the Symbiote's natural strength, instead its about willpower. Even in real life, people are able to do extreme acts or deter high levels of pain if they have a strong enough will.
All the battles between the two characters from there on out are circumstantial. Usually siding towards Venom or Spidey getting the win (whether it was easily acquired or not) because they are the heroes of the story (or anti-hero, in Venom's case). Carnage's ability to stand his own also probably weakened due to the characters lack of popularity with fans. Just look at all the people on this forum who say they hate him... Why would Marvel make him win a fight with a crowd like that?
For the record, people, it generally helps to actually read the comics and know what your talking about before you try to argue about this topic, or any topic for that matter.
If needed, I can post scans of the needed comics that support my claims. But I feel, at this point in time, it’s unnecessary.
By “the only two” you mean aside from the 30 or so other villains that do, too (pre-Civil War), right?
THANK YOU!
God, this is all stuff I've been saying from the start (Besides the intelegence part. Thats new to me. Still, great to know.). Unfortunately, the people who thought otherwise outweighed the ones who agreed with me (which is absolutely nobody... until now of course...). I adding this post to favorites. 💃
Originally posted by Neo DarkhalenLol, I'm talking about Venom and Carnage. Your talking about Eddie and Cletus?
Come on, even without the Symbiote and CK. using a weapon, Eddie would either knock the weapon away and beat him to a pulp, or break his arm, Eddie would take CK, down all the way down!!!!!!!
As Keikan said, if Cletus had a weapon, he could probably hold his own, considering he probably had a lot of experience with it. Without a weapon, sure, he would be wasted, but with a weapon, it would be way more even.
Originally posted by Neo Darkhalen
Oh Carnage and Venom, well in the Trial of Venom, Venom beat Carnage, yes Carnage to a pulp, as well as in Maximum Carnage; he was able to absorb the Carnage Symbiote, another thing is that In Carnage Unleashed Venom beat Carnage.
Originally posted by Arachnid1
THANK YOU!God, this is all stuff I've been saying from the start (Besides the intelegence part. Thats new to me. Still, great to know.). Unfortunately, the people who thought otherwise outweighed the ones who agreed with me (which is absolutely nobody... until now of course...). I adding this post to favorites. 💃
-bows- Why thank you! Yeah, we're obviously on a higher plane of intellegence and understanding. So go us!
Originally posted by Neo Darkhalen
Oh Carnage and Venom, well in the Trial of Venom, Venom beat Carnage, yes Carnage to a pulp, as well as in Maximum Carnage; he was able to absorb the Carnage Symbiote, another thing is that In Carnage Unleashed Venom beat Carnage.
Technically speaking, when Venom absorbed the Carnage Symbiote it shouldn't be possible. The Carnage Symbiote was actually killed back in Maximum Carnage, but embedded its DNA into Kassady's, meaning that as long as Kassady is alive, so is the Symbiote. Why did it happen anyways? Simply to please fans.
Originally posted by Neo Darkhalen
Oh Carnage and Venom, well in the Trial of Venom, Venom beat Carnage, yes Carnage to a pulp, as well as in Maximum Carnage; he was able to absorb the Carnage Symbiote, another thing is that In Carnage Unleashed Venom beat Carnage.
Originally posted by Arachnid1Well, his first showing was the ONLY time Carnage beat Venom, so it's safe to say that this isn't about fan base. Any super villain when introduced needs a badass showing. I'm pretty sure Vulture kicked Spidey's butt first time they fought...
As Keikan said dude, its because he is the hero and has a bigger fan base. Fans would hate it if Venom constantly lost against Carnage so writers wised up to that. You've seen what Carnage is really capable of in his first showing.
Originally posted by kiekanWell, it's true but I believe there's nothing wrong with Venom being able to absorb it seeing how the symbiote leaves Kassidy few times after the MC story. Like when it bonds with Scarlet Spider or Silver Surfer...
Technically speaking, when Venom absorbed the Carnage Symbiote it shouldn't be possible. The Carnage Symbiote was actually killed back in Maximum Carnage, but embedded its DNA into Kassady's, meaning that as long as Kassady is alive, so is the Symbiote. Why did it happen anyways? Simply to please fans.
Originally posted by Sam Z
You're forgetting Venom vs Carnage where Venom also beat Kassidy. Also in trial of Venom he actually beat him twice.🙂Well, his first showing was the ONLY time Carnage beat Venom, so it's safe to say that this isn't about fan base. Any super villain when introduced needs a badass showing. I'm pretty sure Vulture kicked Spidey's butt first time they fought...
Well, it's true but I believe there's nothing wrong with Venom being able to absorb it seeing how the symbiote leaves Kassidy few times after the MC story. Like when it bonds with Scarlet Spider or Silver Surfer...
First off, in his first showing, he beat both Venom and Spiderman. After, Spidey and Venom had to CONTSTANTLY team up to fight carnage. The times that Venom beat carnage either included a weakened Carnage or loads of PIS due to fan base, the hero factor, and some major jobbing. And you said that that was the only time Carnage beat Venom? I don't think so. Let me find a carnage respect thread.