Cosmis Spiderman vs Superman

Originally posted by Blight
Because Gold Kryptonite is from Pre Crisis Earth.

Let me get this straight. You obviously know next to nothing about Superman and claim that other people know nothing about Spiderman and, in fact, tell the not to argue BECAUSE of that.

Do you see the hypocrisy?

No, but i see your reading comprehension level is equal to that of a fifth grader's (my bad maybe you are only in fifth grade). Telling people to prove why one would beat the other is not the same as saying "you know nothing about cosmic spiderman/superman!"

Originally posted by batdude123
Wait, Cosmic Spider-man is going to know about a destroyed and erased universe's history of kryptonite? Doubtful. "Cosmic Awareness" is not only a cop out answer for people to use in threads for characters to gain almost impossible knowledge (and in a lot of cases... nonexistent knowledge), but it's also a baseless and obtuse tactic to use when you can't prove anything. Can I possibly see some evidentiary support to back the claim that Cosmic Spider-man's cosmic awareness can do something even REMOTELY close to what people are saying he's going to do with it in this fight?

Originally posted by batdude123
That's what I thought. Spider-man wouldn't know anything about gold kryptonite.

Originally posted by batdude123
Besides, gold k-nite is worthless against E1 Superman.

Wait, that's all of them then.

Originally posted by batdude123
And therein lies the problem. Too many people think Cosmic Spider-man = Surfer. 😆 Not by a long shot.

But Surfer>Superman on the forums regardless.

Originally posted by batdude123
Also, when one asks for any amount of evidence at all as to why Cosmic Spider-man beats Superman, people throw assumptions and unsubstantiated crap out there.

Funny part is I didn't say that Cosmic Spiderman would win against Supes with ease, I said he can beat him, and he can. It's funny also because I damned sure remember you saying CS won the good majority before, but that was before Avalon and Juntai came in the thread and you felt comfortable supporting Superman. Your opinion has changed several times on the matter, while I simply think the thread is too limited to debate.

You ask me why he wins, I ask why he loses, because there's not enough info for a certain conclusion on either.

Originally posted by batdude123
Pitiful.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Cosmic Awareness is simply ability to know the makeup of whatever one is facing and gives them the ability to counter it. It's that simple. Not a copout, not an excuse, but a fact. A copout would be something along the lines of "Superman has faced worse", when he has also proven to be harmed by the same thing. Cosmic power isn't as limited as an earth based power and can detect anything from gamma radiation to adamantium. My whole point is that the ability would give him an edge against a character like Superman who is made of energy, and one can't deny him that.

Norrin with cosmic awareness can see light years away, and can see limited perceptions of the near future and past of the general vicinity he's in. He can even use it to track enemies across the cosmos. However, CA does NOT unlock every single secret of the universe for him. It doesn't give him the ability to gain knowledge from an erased and nonexistent universe.

Now, take Norrin and divide his power output by two, and you've got Cosmic Pete. Nothing he demonstrated suggests he's out and out more powerful than Supes.... like, at all.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Based on Supes supporters not wanting him to?

Um... based on the fact that it doesn't even exist anymore. 😕

The E2 (Pre Crisis) universe was erased from continuity, like it never happened.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
So which Superman are we even debating? The one that's a convienent plot device for whatever match he's in like on the forum. (I see what you are saying about the Earth one and two but still. Besides, there's not really too many true immunities out there, just a bunch of resistances. He can resist many of these things, but I don't find him immune to them as the supporters claim).

Which Superman? We're using normal, Earth 1, Post Crisis Superman. Ergo, gold kryptonite wouldn't do anything to Clark even if Pre Crisis Superman came back from the dead and TOLD Peter about it.

You may see him as a plot device, but there's no reason accost me about it. That's simply the way writers have made Superman. Whether his position of power was spoon fed to him or not, is completely irrelevant. All we have to go by is concrete evidence of what's been shown by both characters.

Advantage: Superman.

And as for E1 Superman not being immune to gold kryptonite... it's been stated many times (and E1 Supes even demonstrated this against Pre Crisis Zod) that kryptonite from another universe doesn't have any effect on a Kryptonian from a different one. Another example would be in Infinite Crisis.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
He has many of the same abilities. The problem is that when Cosmic Spiderman was out, he was intended to be that strong, but he had very limited showings and most characters have been upgraded so it's difficult to argue.

Magneto wouldn't look superior to Norrin if they ever fought each other. That much I can be quite certain about. Peter didn't exactly show he was Surfer's match at all.

It may be writers' intention over at Marvel to make Sentry = to, or above Superman one day, but until then, I'm not going to say that Sentry is more powerful than Superman based on nothing.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
But Surfer>Superman on the forums regardless.

That's actually quite debatable by more than you realize on this board.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Yea, that coming from the supporters of a character who use more inconsistent plot devices than Wolverine. Speedblitz, and when that doesn't work, then a resistence that he got in one showing or another (since he has a million feats), will do despite the fact that the opposite is knowledge. Someone says a feat, posts a scan (whether related or unrelated), and the fans drool.

You think he's resisted kryptonite and red sun radiation only a couple of times in his career? Tell you what... produce a scan of Superman being completely taken out by kryptonite in the past five years. Really, I'd like to see one.

The reason people say k-nite and red sun radiation are becoming useless nowadays is because... well... they are.

Peter would do well to last 10 minutes in a fight against Superman before getting his ass knocked out for the majority of fights.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Funny part is I didn't say that Cosmic Spiderman would win against Supes with ease, I said he can beat him, and he can. It's funny also because I damned sure remember you saying CS won the good majority before, but that was before Avalon and Juntai came in the thread and you felt comfortable supporting Superman. Your opinion has changed several times on the matter, while I simply think the thread is too limited to debate.

Oh I don't think Superman would take 10/10 on good ol' CS, but definitely the majority. I just find it hilarious that people think Spider-man would win here based on assumptions, hearsay, some kind of uncorroborated basis... what have you.

Yeah, and I also used to believe Surfer would take 9/10 over Superman. Knowledge changes, and so does outlook. Logically, what is based on Cosmic Spider-man beating Superman? Well... not a whole lot.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
It is. I do respect you and the other posters here (just in case what I said offends you or someone else), but the point still remains.

Don't worry... I luvs ya too. 😍

Cosmic awareness is completely unproven. It surely hasn't helped SS in any other battle.... *cough DOOM stealing powers* and the one time he did claim it for Gladiator....it could have been a bluff.

Here's what I don't get. How does the Uni power put you even near Surfer's level or Superman's level? 😑 It only amps his stats by 50, or maybe just his strength. The other powers are pretty good, but.........how can he counter a FTL speedblitz? Or someone who is still far stronger than him?

I just don't see what he can do to counter a blitz. Hell, how would he even hit Superman? ❌

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Here's what I don't get. How does the Uni power put you even near Surfer's level or Superman's level? 😑 It only amps his stats by 50, or maybe just his strength. The other powers are pretty good, but.........how can he counter a FTL speedblitz? Or someone who is still far stronger than him?

I just don't see what he can do to counter a blitz. Hell, how would he even hit Superman? ❌

Apparently, even if you have minor matter manipulation, you own Superman 10x over.

Originally posted by batdude123
Apparently, even if you have minor matter manipulation, you own Superman 10x over.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Here's what I don't get. How does the Uni power put you even near Surfer's level or Superman's level? 😑 It only amps his stats by 50, or maybe just his strength. The other powers are pretty good, but.........how can he counter a FTL speedblitz? Or someone who is still far stronger than him?

I just don't see what he can do to counter a blitz. Hell, how would he even hit Superman? ❌

He won't.

The Blackrock can boost it's host billions of times over and give the same powers as the unipower...and Supes has stilled pwned hosts.

Lol Superman is so overpowered. Cosmic Spidey takes this. Stupid Superman with his ridiculous overpowerdness.

Cosmic Spidey wips Supes' to death.

Originally posted by batdude123
Norrin with cosmic awareness can see light years away, and can see limited perceptions of the near future and past of the general vicinity he's in. He can even use it to track enemies across the cosmos. However, CA does NOT unlock every single secret of the universe for him. It doesn't give him the ability to gain knowledge from an erased and nonexistent universe.

Originally posted by batdude123
Now, take Norrin and divide his power output by two, and you've got Cosmic Pete. Nothing he demonstrated suggests he's out and out more powerful than Supes.... like, at all.

The first part is speculation at best, because we never saw cosmic Peter long enough to know what his output was, but he definitely doesn't have the same experience (I remember him having complete mastery in one of the older threads).

He's had a few feats, like punking Thor. But as I say again, nothing demonstrates him being out and out *weaker* than Supes either.

Originally posted by batdude123
Um... based on the fact that it doesn't even exist anymore. 😕
The E2 (Pre Crisis) universe was erased from continuity, like it never happened.

Anyways this point is becoming more minor, so I won't spend much more time on it.

Originally posted by batdude123
Which Superman? We're using normal, Earth 1, Post Crisis Superman. Ergo, gold kryptonite wouldn't do anything to Clark even if Pre Crisis Superman came back from the dead and TOLD Peter about it.

Originally posted by batdude123
You may see him as a plot device, but there's no reason accost me about it. That's simply the way writers have made Superman. Whether his position of power was spoon fed to him or not, is completely irrelevant. All we have to go by is concrete evidence of what's been shown by both characters.

Advantage: Superman.

Superman has the advantage of showings because Superman has been shown more, it's that simple and I never disagreed with that.

Originally posted by batdude123
And as for E1 Superman not being immune to gold kryptonite... it's been stated many times (and E1 Supes even demonstrated this against Pre Crisis Zod) that kryptonite from another universe doesn't have any effect on a Kryptonian from a different one. Another example would be in Infinite Crisis.

Originally posted by batdude123
Magneto wouldn't look superior to Norrin if they ever fought each other. That much I can be quite certain about. Peter didn't exactly show he was Surfer's match at all.

But off topic further it was concluded strongly that Omega Iceman could secure the majority of wins against Superman, simply because the anatomy of his physiology allowed water to pass through him, and I wouldn't put him on CS or definitely Surfer's level.

Originally posted by batdude123
It may be writers' intention over at Marvel to make Sentry = to, or above Superman one day, but until then, I'm not going to say that Sentry is more powerful than Superman based on nothing.

Originally posted by batdude123
That's actually quite debatable by more than you realize on this board.

Originally posted by batdude123
You think he's resisted kryptonite and red sun radiation only a couple of times in his career? Tell you what... produce a scan of Superman being completely taken out by kryptonite in the past five years. Really, I'd like to see one.

Originally posted by batdude123
The reason people say k-nite and red sun radiation are becoming useless nowadays is because... well... they are.

Originally posted by batdude123
Peter would do well to last 10 minutes in a fight against Superman before getting his ass knocked out for the majority of fights.

I don't think he or SS would need to fight that long. They aren't trying to "beat up" Superman, but take him out alternatively. The fight should go by very quickly win or no.

Originally posted by batdude123
Oh I don't think Superman would take 10/10 on good ol' CS, but definitely the majority. I just find it hilarious that people think Spider-man would win here based on assumptions, hearsay, some kind of uncorroborated basis... what have you.

That's no different than in a Wolverine thread where people say he can win for some unmade reason. If it isn't substantiated enough, then it goes both ways.

Originally posted by batdude123
Yeah, and I also used to believe Surfer would take 9/10 over Superman. Knowledge changes, and so does outlook. Logically, what is based on Cosmic Spider-man beating Superman? Well... not a whole lot.

But not alot based on him losing easily.

Originally posted by batdude123
Don't worry... I luvs ya too. 😍

Originally posted by tooa/presence
No, but i see your reading comprehension level is equal to that of a fifth grader's (my bad maybe you are only in fifth grade). Telling people to prove why one would beat the other is not the same as saying "you know nothing about cosmic spiderman/superman!"

You told someone on here that they only know about Superman and know nothing about any other character when you, yourself, know nothing about Superman. That is where your hypocricy lies...

I don't know about the rest of your post because it does not pertain to anything I had ever said so it doesn't really make sense... must be my fifth grader reading ability...

Originally posted by Blight
Are you serious?

You told someone on here that they only know about Superman and know nothing about any other character when you, yourself, know nothing about Superman. That is where your hypocricy lies...

I don't know about the rest of your post because it does not pertain to anything I had ever said so it doesn't really make sense... must be my fifth grader reading ability...

"You told someone on here that they only know about Superman and know nothing about any other character when you, yourself, know nothing about Superman. That is where your hypocricy lies..."

I didn't say anything like that. You wish I did so you could be right. Must be your fifth grade reading comprehension kicking in. 😆

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Cosmic awareness is completely unproven. It surely hasn't helped SS in any other battle.... *cough DOOM stealing powers* and the one time he did claim it for Gladiator....it could have been a bluff.

That's not even close to a bluff... unless Surfer can't shoot out radiation... 🙄

Also, they didn't touch up on his awareness until after Doom stole his powers, I believe... so...

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
It doesn't need to unlock every single secret of the universe to him, but it can give away the aspects of a characters being to him. Like Hulk and his energy being supplied from a pocket dimension for example.

Which, in this case, means that Spider-man wouldn’t know about gold kryptonite.

There… problem solved.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
The first part is speculation at best, because we never saw cosmic Peter long enough to know what his output was, but he definitely doesn't have the same experience (I remember him having complete mastery in one of the older threads).

You have to debate him as he was shown during his run in the comics. Anything other than such is completely ridiculous. I don’t use speculation. Speculation is saying he’s = to Surfer without anything to back it up. I avoid assumptions like that by doing the only logical thing. Going by what he’s done in the comics.

You’d have a point if a character had absolutely no showings to go with his hype.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
He's had a few feats, like punking Thor. But as I say again, nothing demonstrates him being out and out *weaker* than Supes either.

Thor, while impressive in a lot of cases, has quite a few instances in his long history of embarrassing defeats.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
That is a logical point, but I still stand by the fact that anything is possible in the forming of two universes on the forum. Hell the flash fans get away with it.

Anyways this point is becoming more minor, so I won't spend much more time on it.

Yeah… I’m done with the whole gold k-nite topic.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Read avove.

*reading* ermmhappy

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
It's not how his powers were spoonfed, but how they are there for whatever situation necessary. The way he's written makes people think he can take people way out of his league with some new power he continues to acquire. And the consistency of them for that matter.

Well, this is irrelevant namely because:

1. He beats people out of his arbitrarily given “league” all the time.
2. Cosmic Spider-man isn’t out of his league at all.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Superman has the advantage of showings because Superman has been shown more, it's that simple and I never disagreed with that.

Another excuse I see thrown out there all the time is this one. People use this when they don’t want to admit that Superman is portrayed better or more powerful than the character they are debating against him.

You can have a lot less showings and be more powerful than another character; that just happens to not be the case here.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Hmm a bit off topic, but I see Magneto is a SS lite of sorts. Magneto with his shields up could go awhile with Superman.

Perhaps, but this is of course assuming Superman gives him the chance. Even then, he has ways of ending the fight against Erik.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
But off topic further it was concluded strongly that Omega Iceman could secure the majority of wins against Superman, simply because the anatomy of his physiology allowed water to pass through him, and I wouldn't put him on CS or definitely Surfer's level.

Concluded strongly? Why, because of Blair’s wanking of Iceman (no offense, B-dub)? I also believe it was Blair who said Iceman would beat Thor in a similar fashion.

Superman beats Iceman via T-Vo, or by changing the environment around them into a plasmatic substance via heat vision, thus ridding it of all H2O molecules.

Besides, I really don’t think it can be conclusively evident that Superman has water running through him. He has a completely different alien physiology (I believe he also has extra organs in his body as well), and doesn’t require food or water to survive.

Anyway, Iceman recently got his body blown apart from a speedblitz by Northstar, and was unable to reform himself. Seriously, the Iceman that BW likes to portray on the forums doesn’t exist in the comics. Iceman really isn’t on Superman’s level.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I know that, both have relatively limited showings. But I wouldn't say that Sentry is weaker than Superman based on that, I would deem it more inconclusive than anything, like now.

Sentry has been around for over 7 years now. He has plenty of feats for us to use. Based on what he’s shown, he’s not Superman’s equal… and that’s not inconclusive at all.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Not more than I realize, I've been here back in '05 where it was no question he won against him, or that GL won against him or that CS won against him. It just depends on the time and which posters are posting. The unbiased reader with knowledge on both give him the majority due to his versatility and easy access to Superman's weaknesses. Superman can win, but I definitely think Bloodlusted Surfer would take the good majority. Add in fanbases, which Supes has the advantage in, and the numbers sway. Perfectly normal.

Yes, more than you realize. Rather than most being quick to say Norrin takes 8-9/10 against Clark, it’s now around 6-7/10 against him. Versatility doesn’t always win the day. Superman’s power output and creative usage of his power set is what makes it a close fight. And access to Superman’s “weaknesses” definitely isn’t an automatic win, considering they’re getting futile in his battles. Norrin might as well just use normal blasts of cosmic energy. Superman’s superior strength combined with his superior COMBAT speed (many here used to and still do confuse that with travel speed) would give SS trouble without question. I personally think they split down the middle, or perhaps Surfer 5.5/10.

Same deal with Green Lanterns. Superior reaction speed, combat speed, and strength would give a good Green Lantern hell… including guys like Hal and Kyle. Anybody saying GL or Surfer wins more than 6.5-7/10 is just simply not giving Kal his due props.

And a bigger fan base on KMC being an advantage for Superman? Please, Superman was voted the most hated character on these forums and almost everyone here loves Surfer. That advantage easily lies with SS around here.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I'm not sure if that's what it came across like I said. I am talking about his immunities and resistances and consistency. I understand that he has the kryptonite ring to make matches more of a challenge and build resistances. And it makes good sense that over time they would become less effective. But I don't believe they are completely ineffective. I hope that cleared that up. I just believe it weakens him, as part of his character has been intended to, to some degree. I'm just saying there's a difference between a resistance and an immunity. Immunities tend to be very, very rare.

He might as well be considered immune, considering he can still move planets under a red sun. People seriously overrate the effectiveness it has on the guy. All they have to do is pick up a few recent Superman arcs and Action Comics to realize this. Speaking of which, Superman recently took a supernova of a red sun at ground zero without being KO'd. If Norrin decided to use nothing but red sun blasts or k-nite blasts… he’d lose.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I don't think he or SS would need to fight that long. They aren't trying to "beat up" Superman, but take him out alternatively. The fight should go by very quickly win or no.

If you don’t think Surfer would have a grueling and tough fight on his hands against Supes, then you’re nuckin’ futz.

But regardless, we are talking about Cosmic Spider-man, who isn’t Surfer. Pete goes down.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I wouldn't support a win or loss based on those, which is what I'm trying to get at. I just tend to find myself on the middle of the road or defending Spider man in this case, because he's usually outnumbered on the thread.

I support Superman’s wins based on the feats and abilities Cosmic Spider-man demonstrated in the comics. That’s the best way to go about if, rather than hypothesize what else he’s capable of.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
That's no different than in a Wolverine thread where people say he can win for some unmade reason. If it isn't substantiated enough, then it goes both ways.

That has nothing to do with this thread. Besides, Wolverine wins against somebody via a claw swipe or stab, whereas Superman has numerous ways to beat someone.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Damned right you do. 😎

Don’t get cocky, CM. 😎

Originally posted by Tyrant
A bluff?
He found out what Gladiator's weakness is, and the only bluff that is even possible, is that Surfer can shoot out the type of energy needed.

That's not even close to a bluff... unless Surfer can't shoot out radiation... 🙄

Also, they didn't touch up on his awareness until after Doom stole his powers, I believe... so...

Sentry also beat Galactus! Spidey said so! 😉

If he really knew it.. he would have shot Glads with it right there and then instead of telling him about it.

What SS did is sort of like robbing someone with an unloaded gun. Either way there is no real proof that SS knew or could produce the said radiation.

Originally posted by tooa/presence
"You told someone on here that they only know about Superman and know nothing about any other character when you, yourself, know nothing about Superman. That is where your hypocricy lies..."

I didn't say anything like that. You wish I did so you could be right. Must be your fifth grade reading comprehension kicking in. 😆

originally posted by tooa/presence
"I just know him better than most do"

No, you just know Superman better than you know other characters.

So you didn't say this? 🙄

You were trying to debunk him by calling him a fanboy because he "Doesn't know about anyone but superman". But you, yourself know nothing about Superman so basically you're just as un-credible as he is... ASSUMING he's un-credible (which I believe is false).

Yup..... fifth grade, aren't I?

Cosmic spidey is outclassed here. He's a poor mans SS.. Superman wins

Originally posted by Blight
Really? 😕

So you didn't say this? 🙄

You were trying to debunk him by calling him a fanboy because he "Doesn't know about anyone but superman". But you, yourself know nothing about Superman so basically you're just as un-credible as he is... ASSUMING he's un-credible (which I believe is false).

Yup..... fifth grade, aren't I?

""I just know him better than most do"
No, you just know Superman better than you know other characters."

He was stating an opinion that he knows Superman better than "most do". I said "no" because I'm sure there are far more people that know superman better than him and that he's just average when it comes to knowledge on superman. I said "you just know Superman better than you know other characters" because he really only knows superman better than he knows his other characters, he doesn't really know superman better than "most do" that is an assumed opinion. If you didn't have a fifth grade reading comprehension, you would have understood this.

"You were trying to debunk him by calling him a fanboy because he "Doesn't know about anyone but superman". "

No if I wanted to say he didn't know about anyone but superman, I would have simply stated "you don't know about anyone except superman."

"But you, yourself know nothing about Superman so basically you're just as un-credible as he is... ASSUMING he's un-credible (which I believe is false)."

love the hyperbole 🙄. His alter-ego is Clark Kent. HOORAY! I just said one thing about superman. But how? I know NOTHING about superman. 🙄

Originally posted by tooa/presence
""I just know him better than most do"
No, you just know Superman better than you know other characters."

He was stating an opinion that he knows Superman better than "most do". I said "no" because I'm sure there are far more people that know superman better than him and that he's just average when it comes to knowledge on superman. I said "you just know Superman better than you know other characters" because he really only knows superman better than he knows his other characters, he doesn't really know superman better than "most do" that is an assumed opinion. If you didn't have a fifth grade reading comprehension, you would have understood this.

"You were trying to debunk him by calling him a fanboy because he "Doesn't know about anyone but superman". "

No if I wanted to say he didn't know about anyone but superman, I would have simply stated "you don't know about anyone except superman."

"But you, yourself know nothing about Superman so basically you're just as un-credible as he is... ASSUMING he's un-credible (which I believe is false)."

love the hyperbole 🙄. His alter-ego is Clark Kent. HOORAY! I just said one thing about superman. But how? I know NOTHING about superman. 🙄