Originally posted by DigiMark007
I have no problem with the Authority losing this match, but it always pains me to see people who obviously don't know what they're talking about but like to appear confident. If you haven't read much Authority, and are authoritatively asserting an opinion, I'm likely talking to you.
Originally posted by Validus
Honestly, theres no need to talk to Batdude like this.
😂
...no, batdude and I understand each other. Also, Im bumping my last post because I took a while with it....end of the page sucks.
Originally posted by Space M ummy
3 people with telepathy versus Onslaught and Dark Phoenix??? you're insane if you don't think they'll be mind wiped in seconds here. I've read the authority, contrary to what you might think. there's no telepathic feats anywhere that put them anywhere close to the level of those two.Dark Phoenix is a TP/TK so powerful, it EATS STARS. Dark Phoenix most certainly could simply nova the sun and wipe out everyone here. The authority would not survive that.
The Doctor can eat stars if he wants....so I'm not really impressed by that. He's also cut off telepathic connections from high-level telepaths. And there's 2 others on the team with tp ability. So yeah, they don't have the tp advantage, but "OMFG Onslotzzz! and DP" isn't really a credible argument for saying that. They don't need to "win" at tp...just block it.
Also, the supernova would make Apollo stronger, and Jenny has swallowed supernovas before without any ill effects. So..um...still nothing.
Originally posted by Space M ummy
Don't forget: Onslaught is Franklin Richards + Nate Gray + Professor X + Magneto.
There's different versions of Onslaught. The default one is Xaver/Magneto in most threads. And based solely on feats, The Doctor is >>> franklin, despite the unbelievably asinine "Celestial Level" hype surrounding him.
Originally posted by Space M ummy
er..your problem here is that you're assuming that anyone on the authority's level can "stalemate" dark phoenix or onslaught. either one of those two would eliminate everyone short of the doctor inside of a few seconds. Dark phoenix in particular is certainly capable of reducing even a city the size of new york to ashes in moments. Jack isn't a factor at all.Then it's The Doctor (or Jenny) versus the entire villain team. it's not even a contest.
No, my problem is that: We're in agreement here in terms of the outcome. I said they'd lose and outlined what I thought. You're not really debating me then...you're just trying to tell me I have no idea what The Authority are capable of, when I'm more versed on them than pretty much anyone on the forum...and certainly not when I haven't seen a feat that Authority hasn't duplicated or topped.
Also, when is Jack fighting DP instead of the Authority's big guns??? If she gets to wipe him out in 5 seconds, then Jack gets to kill Omega Red, Nimrod, and Sinister in the same amount of time. It's not just New York sitting there waiting to be killed....it's trillions of tons of concrete and metal attacking the crap out of everyone.
honestly, maybe on KMC they would lose, but if this was an actual fight in a comic, the Authority would take this.
lets look through this. I'm a huge Authority fanboy, so if anyone disagrees with a point I'm making, lets hammer it out reasonably...
Apocalypse
Onslaught
Mr. Sinister
Omega Red
Nimrod
Classic juggernaut
Magneto
Dark Phoenix
Apollo
Midnighter
Doctor
Jack
Jenny Q
Jenny S
Swift
Engineer
if you're giving the Carrier to the authority, Apoc, Omega Red, Juggernaut, Sinister, and Nimrod can all be tossed into the Bleed. Sinister, Apoc, and Nimrod could probably find their way back, eventually (Bleed technology is WAY advanced...) but they would have to get through the various creatures and beings that live within it...
so we're left with....
Magneto, Dark Phoenix, and Onslaught
If you've ever read the Authority, you'd realize that telepathic attacks probably won't work on either of the Jenny's, the Doctor, or the Engineer. So a quick win from Onslaught isn't going to win. Magneto would probably f--- over Jenny Sparks or the Engineer... so if the Authority were playing this smart (which they ALWAYS do) ... they would put...say... Apollo and the Midnighter after Magneto. Magneto, in the long run, would probably pull the win against them... but they would be able to match him for a while at least.
so that leaves us with Dark Phoenix and Onslaught versus Jack Hawksmoor, Jenny Quantum, Jenny Sparks, the Doctor, Swift, and the Engineer (why didn't you include Rose Tattoo... she's a member also...)
Jenny Q. and the Doctor's feats have proven that they have better matter manipulation than I have seen out of Onslaught. You can bring up Franklin Richards feats... but that would be implying that Onslaught had full control of his powers, and had F. Richards at his full potential, a claim which I would LOVE to see proof of. The Doctor has a number of weapons to use against Onslaught... time manipulation, astral plane battles, energy absportion....between Jenny Sparks distracting Onslaught into focusing on his magnetic powers on her, and a bombardment from the Doctor, I don't see him winning. It honestly would not be that difficult AT ALL for the Doctor to simply kill both Magneto and Xavier at birth... read the storyline in which the previous doctor gains his powers back from Jeroem.
Dark Phoenix is the quandry though.... although I think Jenny Q. could stalemate her long enough for the Doctor and Jenny S. to finish off Onslaught... which would allow them to help with Midnighter and Apollo versus Magneto... and then bringing the full team against Phoenix...
The Carrier shouldn't be assumed unless the thread-starter specifies it, which he didn't.
Otherwise, yeah, you have a sentient baby universe with world destroying capabilities and the ability to phase in and out of various dimensions at will.
But you can't just insert it to give the Authority the win.
Originally posted by masterbruce
Battle begins...Dark Phoenix destroys the planet Earth in one swipe
Dark Phoenix ftw
It really depends on what your opinion is of DP. Hell, Magneto gave her a brain seizure once....so it's not like she's omnipotent.
Originally posted by DigiMark007
The Carrier shouldn't be assumed unless the thread-starter specifies it, which he didn't.Otherwise, yeah, you have a sentient baby universe with world destroying capabilities and the ability to phase in and out of various dimensions at will.
Wouldn't that be universe destroying capabilities?
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Wouldn't that be universe destroying capabilities?
Meh, it's never done anything quite that powerful...I really doubt it could have that kind of scope. If you paired it with Doctor's time travel abilities though, you might be able to make a case for universe-destroying, but that's obviously a bit of a loophole to "attack" the universe at a young state.
Originally posted by DigiMark007
The Doctor can eat stars if he wants....so I'm not really impressed by that. He's also cut off telepathic connections from high-level telepaths. And there's 2 others on the team with tp ability. So yeah, they don't have the tp advantage, but "OMFG Onslotzzz! and DP" isn't really a credible argument for saying that. They don't need to "win" at tp...just block it.
the phoenix force is infinite- how exactly would the doctor or jenny "block" it? It's a primal force of the universe.
There's different versions of Onslaught. The default one is Xaver/Magneto in most threads. And based solely on feats, The Doctor is >>> franklin, despite the unbelievably asinine "Celestial Level" hype surrounding him.
There are indeed different versions of onslaught, but the OP failed to define him, so I'm assuming all characters are at their most powerful points. and based solely on feats, Onslaught blinked a sun into existence from nothing at all, implying some fairly high end matter manipulation.
Whether or not you wish to ignore franklin's "celestial level" feats is up to you, but Onslaught does have his abilities and demonstrated it using the above feats. it's enough for me.
No, my problem is that: We're in agreement here in terms of the outcome. I said they'd lose and outlined what I thought. You're not really debating me then...you're just trying to tell me I have no idea what The Authority are capable of, when I'm more versed on them than pretty much anyone on the forum...and certainly you, who can't even name me a feat that Authority hasn't duplicated or topped.
no, I was saying you're vastly underrating the marvel team and overrating the authority. at one point the watcher called the phoenix force "second only to the creator" which, though it's since been retconned, is still leauges above the power levels of the authority.
The phoenix force as an abstract has no limits at all to what it's capable of- even residue is sufficient to time travel thousands of years into the future.
Jean Grey at her full potential (White Phoenix) telekinetically controlled every atom in the entire universe and "rewound" them back 150 years worth...spacially controlling every single atom and moved it through 150 years worth of motion, state changes, chemical reactions, and whatever else occured during those 150 years. She can also exists outside of space/time, beyond conventional laws of physics and whatnot, and is directly linked to the nexus of realities.
I'd say that's fairly high up there in terms of feats.
Also, when is Jack fighting DP instead of the Authority's big guns??? If she gets to wipe him out in 5 seconds, then Jack gets to kill Omega Red, Nimrod, and Sinister in the same amount of time. It's not just New York sitting there waiting to be killed....it's trillions of tons of concrete and metal attacking the crap out of everyone. [/B]
ignoring the fact that Sinister and Nimrod would not be killed by any amount of concrete and metal attacking them, Phoenix and Onslaught are capable of fairly massive area attacks that would render most of the authority irrelevant.
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Meh, it's never done anything quite that powerful...I really doubt it could have that kind of scope. If you paired it with Doctor's time travel abilities though, you might be able to make a case for universe-destroying, but that's obviously a bit of a loophole to "attack" the universe at a young state.
If it was set loose Angie implied it would simply write over the universe as it expanded. srug
Originally posted by DigiMark007
The Carrier shouldn't be assumed unless the thread-starter specifies it, which he didn't.Otherwise, yeah, you have a sentient baby universe with world destroying capabilities and the ability to phase in and out of various dimensions at will.
But you can't just insert it to give the Authority the win.
It really depends on what your opinion is of DP. Hell, Magneto gave her a brain seizure once....so it's not like she's omnipotent.
hence the fact that I asked... my post begins with "if the carrier is allowed."
I was attempting to reason out a way for the Authority to win if they were not allowed the Carrier. I asked the question a while back, but it has yet to be answered.
I apologize if I sound like I'm not paying attention.
Mummy, If you think Dark Pheonix in this match is an abstract level entity, then there was never really a reason to start the debate in the first place.
I won't pretend to be able to counter that...I already admitted the Authority would lose, and I also hate the abstract nonsense in any comic universe. But I do know that there's a huge difference between the Pheonix Force itself and its avatars...which have been brought down before by regular comic characters (like the Magneto feat I referenced earlier).
So if I'm fighting the Abstract entity, then woot...I'll just go ahead and close this. Otherwise, it might actually be a decent fight.
Originally posted by tjcoady
hence the fact that I asked... my post begins with "if the carrier is allowed."I was attempting to reason out a way for the Authority to win if they were not allowed the Carrier. I asked the question a while back, but it has yet to be answered.
I apologize if I sound like I'm not paying attention.
No worries...it's just an aspect of thread protocol that I thought might need clarifying. I hadn't seen the earlier post. Your assessment of the battle with the Carrier was good though.
🙂
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
If it was set loose Angie implied it would simply write over the universe as it expanded. srug
Hmm. Possibly. Though a dimension hop via Onslaught might avoid it.
one other thing, though...
the Authority has had exactly one fight where they couldn't use the Carrier, which was the battle against Bendix right before Morisson took over the title. so yea, I could understand why the Carrier is not included in a fight... but to me it seems like standard equipment, even if it is sentient, or semi-sentient.
Originally posted by tjcoady
one other thing, though...the Authority has had exactly one fight where they couldn't use the Carrier, which was the battle against Bendix right before Morisson took over the title. so yea, I could understand why the Carrier is not included in a fight... but to me it seems like standard equipment, even if it is sentient, or semi-sentient.
It's a member of the team them 😛