Ken Masters v.s. Paul Phoenix

Started by Guilty Gear14 pages

Can't we all just drop it already?

They won't. Their pride as debators is making them go on and on in a never ending cycle to determine who has the bigger e-dick.

Well, that is what internet forums are for aren't they?

Yeah. It just surprises me for how long people can keep it up.

Lol.

I fear that a certain other thread will end up the same. 🙁

You probably know which one I'm talking about.

They won't. Their pride as debators is making them go on and on in a never ending cycle to determine who has the bigger e-dick.

MINE IS BIGGER!!! 😆
its not about pride. at least not for me. pride ruins arguments.
i dont know about DarkC. i have nothing against the guy aside from his mutating some of my points to ridicullous levels.

What does that have to do with this fight, breaking a neck in a fall?

YOU brought it up.

The thing about those feats, Sado, is that they’re not exactly ordinary things. And they are committed by not so ordinary people. It doesn’t make the physics any less important. Physics is an integral factor in any real fighting game regardless of abilities, it’s either there or it isn’t, and in fighting matches, it is. I’ve already mentioned my DBZ example above, because it is wildly unrealistic in some aspects, shouldn’t have anything to do with fundamental Newtonian physics of movement. They’re tough, but they’re still following physics.

yes, yes. we finally agree. THIS is what i've been saying: there are cases when it has been defied.

Oh, so being simply explanation negates its factor as a rant? It’s still a rant, despite you attempting to explain it. I have told you why your ‘explanations’ are wrong, that’s all there is to it. Attempting to dress a rant up with tags that it’s an explanation is about as useful as a fish up a tree

no need to get into this one. i'll like to leave it at this:
if someone dredges up my name in a way that i feel is wrong or through a misunderstanding, then i have to clear things out. you call it a rant. i call it clearing my name.

First of all, it wasn’t one ‘tourney’, it was three. According to you.
Second of all, the name of it was ‘US Martial Arts Tournament’. Learn to address it properly instead of dismissively labelling it a mere 'tourney'.
Third, ‘taking down schoolgirls’ puts Ken in a very bad light, he was lightly sparring with Sakura and Karin, I think that’s who you’re referring to.
And besides, they’re not exactly pixies themselves, are they?
Fourth: “not much accomplishments there”. Says it all. Winning a tournament, why isn’t that much of an accomplishment?
That’s my proof.

you're seriously clutching at straws now, broseph.
-i say tourny because its shorter. no need to pull semantics and start psy101 class on me for doing that. you're not going to blame me for using "cuz" now are you.
-and a correction: the guy was claiming it was TEN. and i cleared out the mistake by reminding everyone that it is only three. so you're wrong...unless clearing a mistake is downplaying the character.
-he was sparring with karin? karin is practicallly his rival, DarkC. they are family rivals that have been in rivals in business and practically everything else. Sakura was also NOT lightly sparring with him. they met in the streets and decided to fight...or at least she did.
-not much accomplishments is true. ken doesn't have much accomplishments. around here in KMC one of the most common flames Terry gets is that he beats up on nobodies. most people agree on it because the people he beat in South TOwn are no-name losers. going by the same light, i claimed that Ken is also gets his rep by noname losers. not ONE person he's fougth in the US tourney's (and i'll use tourny cuz its shorter) is known. hence its unimpressive.
and nice of you to ignore the real part:
-fighting sakura
-fighting karin
-fighting sean
-fighting unfocused Ryu

are 4 of his six known fights. care to explain to me why i should consider such a lame level of competition impressive if 3 out of these 4 are in their early teens and rookies while the next one was a man who was unfocused and conflicted? is it impressive that he beat down people who are not even in his league (the first 3 mind you)?
get serious man.

He’s not even ‘normal’ in the world of Tekken, unless every single character or human in that game can survive being thrown down a cliff, etc. It is very clear that he is far from a simple human. Despite not having the Devil Gene like his relatives do, he is still incredibly powerful from what you’ve claimed, and now you’re simply dismissing that by saying he’s just a ‘normal person’? Hypocrisy and self-contraction.

wow you just love to jump to conclusions and label people dont you?
despite every thing, Hachi is a normal person. you tried to negate my point by saying you were talking about normal characters from Tekken. i brought up hachi. try to keep up with what you're saying and asking me.

You have not really proven to me anything in that topic besides that fireball conjuring doesn't follow physics.

and the part where you were insisting that game endings are all canon....which you conveniently ignored in your next replies. seems you're making this a matter of pride. i'm not going to sit around here and compare dick sizes with you. keep pride out of this. unless i wrong you or claim that you're doing something you aren't, dont get pride invovlved. it ruins the argument.

Again, by “people” I mean you. Not others, you. Don’t pretend I ‘dragged’ you into this, because you slipped and fell in yourself.

exactly. you've been onto me from day one. thank you for admitting it.

As if all that didn’t count, you then blame me for dragging you into it when you asked the original question that I responded to. Seriously. Am I supposed to be a scapegoat or something?

correct me if i'm wrong but weren't you the guy who jumped in here headlong and tried to prove something by asking me if i was an "adherent of the tekken church"?

True, Sado, and I wouldn’t have done otherwise if I didn’t think you deserved it

this is getting ridiculous. lets sum it up and leave it at that since we are, as you say, talking only about ken:
-you haven't been following whats going on here.
-you don't know the whole score between remy and me and me and darkstorm from other threads.
-you haven't debated with me ever prior to this.
-you jumped to a conclusion about me and decided to lecture me.

to be fair, i can see where you come from, but next time its only fair to know the whole deal and keep ourselves from "labelling" people regardless of how obvious it may seem. consider it food for thought🙂

Well, congratulations, Sado, you proved my assumption wrong here. You’re apparently not smart enough to distinguish if something so incredibly lame in appearance is meant to be taken seriously or if it isn’t.

calm down, tiger. your example was lame from all standards...that was the point. apparently YOU were the one who couldn't figure that out.

What am I wrong for, Sado? Telling you that your guess that I was new was wrong? That’s truth, Sado. If you meant that you’ve never seen me around, then say it instead of guessing that I’m new.

you're taking it too personally...and i didn't even HINT a flame here. normally when you don't see someone around its only natural to assume he's new. you want me to label my old neighborhood as full of people who jump to conclusions and are hasty in their judgements just cuz they assumed i'm new since they never saw me?

Are you trying to make fun of my logic terminology here?

🙂

Declaring that someone else said something stupid isn’t implying that they are stupid. You need to learn that. I may be quick to point the finger too but at least I don’t form wild assumptions out of extremely remote things

dont go back on your semantics game now C. and don't play innocent either. "someone with half a wit here" was your exact phrase.
no more games.

refrain from using “show me where I said” semantics when I can, because when I do it purposely (without having to defend myself from a hasty accusation like you did above), I feel like it’s a stupid meaningless shortcut without any real content towards the debate. You can take it how you like, but I don’t recommend it as a debating tactic.
See the “Idiotic Debating Tactics” thread in the General Discussion Board

you're getting pretty bent about this whole deal. as i said before, if i feel someone is being unfair in their dealing with me and accusing me without knowing the whole score, i would like to clear it out. there isn't anything more to it. no semantic games. not hasty generalization.

I don’t need to do anything, Sado, at all, let alone ‘fixing’ things that I don’t even feel need fixing. And yes, I am self-righteous. You are as well. Your point being?

i am self-righteous? well, to each his own, but at least at the end of the day i've shown to be more considerate towards other's view of me and in trying to clarify mine and other people's errors in a certain view. be it about me or about ken or about whatever.
you, however, not only disregard other people's opinion but also act indifferent and claim you'll do what you want and don't care about whatevers say.
as for not needing to fix anything, there alone you proved my point.
you play semantics games, you get extremely defensive, you are obviously taking things to heart with some of my replies and you have made this a matter of pride. funny how this is what you blame me for.
yes, i've gotten personal with remy but after prolonged silence.
yes, i've flamed him but again after a long time.
no, i've not been defensive unless someone was blaming me for something that wasn't entirely my fault. i admitted to the part where i was wrong but wanted to clear out that i wasn't the original offender. you talk about newtonian physics don't you: every action has an equal and oppositte reaction, remember?

but what's your problem? did i get your mom involved in this? did i flame you? despite you dredging up my name despite knowing the whole deal you're trying to act as if this thread is independent of what happens in other threads. in theory, yes. but that's not how it is because the SAME people from the other threads meet here. its a community. don't be so narrowminded. theory works everywhere but in REAL cases. the practical way it works is that remy, darkstorm and i will keep on coming across each other and things from past threads will carry over....this is true because Remy's flames and sidesnips sure as hell didn't stop. should it be this way? no. but what should isn't exactly what is. you SHOULDN'T be getting so bent about this. i SHOULDN'T have flamed remy...but these things happen.

I have not been continuously ignored or passed by when I’ve repeated to you that something is out of the topic at hand.
I have not directly insulted or flamed anyone other than implying a few things, which really aren’t exactly direct insults anyways.
I have not criticized you or jumped on your back without a given reason and explaining why.

the fact that you've played the semantics game when you criticized me for doing so. the fact that you're taking all of this VERY personally when you blame me for doing so. the fact that you are quick to take "hinting flame jabs" at me but criticize me for doing so.
THAT is what i mean. and you're offering explanation now aren't you? but i'm not callign it a rant since everyone deserves to be heard. you don't have to agree with what he's saying or try to justify it, but you should hear what he has to say. keep that in mind next time.

Something very easily seen via my profile, so I assume those are rhetorical questions. Congratulations Sado, you have been awarded an “I’m a Perceptive Puppy!” badge.

so i assume its a yes. I KNEW IT!
oh and i'm more of a cat lover😉

I’ll lecture who I want, Sado

by all means...but make sure you do it after you know the whole score. i know it would have been tedious for you to go from thread to thread seeing what kind of person i was really like, but at the end of the day, if you wanna start a lecture you need to get your facts straight.

I don’t care if you’re a senior student or a professor. I don’t even care if you’re a Nobel Prize winner. Supposed credentials mean absolutely nothing in a debate, which is why people rarely use them in debates. Darkstorm made a hasty claim too not long ago and he couldn’t prove it when I tested him. What am I supposed to do here, accede to you simply because you claim to have good credentials? You’re neither acting nor debating like a senior level student in Engineering and that isn’t exactly helping your supposed image, is it.

my, my...you're getting worked up or what. look dude i have nothing against you. cut back on your finger pointing and get your facts straight is all i'm saying.
and in Darkstorm's defense: he's a smart guy. not someone i always agree on but when its all said and done he is one of the most respected debators on KMC. yes, i flamed him but at the end of the day i'm also one of the few people who knows him better than the rest. not all things from videogames can be proved. some are assumed to be facts via hintings others are facts due to one's usage of common sense. others still are facts to a person because they seem to be. to prove a point: you think its a fact that ken can break bones. no matter what you say, there is no proof that he can in the literal sense of the word. i can't PROOVE that Iori is stronger than goenitz but i have proof in the forms of his in-game feats and comments from other fighters. again this proof is refutable is it not?
once again, maybe you ought not to jump to conclusions about people. if you didn't do that since day one, you and i won't be sitting on the 12th page of this thread ready to snip at eachother's crotches.

Sorry to disappoint you, but I don’t approve of authority anyways. And what you’re doing here is clearly an appeal to authority, which in this case, apparently yours.

typical aquarius.

See above, Sado. It’s only “losing it’s impact” if the majority of the population, not just the characters, are doing unrealistic things such as flying or firing fireballs.

-asuka punching Jin through a boulders and shattering it on impact
-asuka jumping from a building
-asuka jumping from one roof to another and kicking herself off walls
-xiao jumping very high in the air and sending people really high with kicks
-wang jinrei fighting at 150 years of age
-raven teleporting
-raven standing on a jetplane while it flies
these are off the top of my head. you think that physics doesn't lose its impact on these people now?

do ponder over what i have said.

And now finally after reading your reply to my bone breaking theory. I guess I've been looking at it from a narrowpoint of view (being a boxer).
i concede. you are right about the bone breaking. yes, i guess ken CAN break bones.

~Sado

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
They won't. Their pride as debators is making them go on and on in a never ending cycle to determine who has the bigger e-dick.

Try not to form such a quick generalization, Superboy.

I'll agree with Sado here, at least to some extent, that this statement of yours was a bit too hasty.

I don't consider this a 'pride' matter. I happen to disagree with what Sado is saying, and I do it repeatedly and unerringly. How is this pride? And from what Sado says, you were incorrect in assumption as well.

Originally posted by Sado22
YOU brought it up.

Correct, Sado, and that was only an example, for when you asked me why physics were important and relevant in this fight between video-game characters where highly unrealistic feats happen. I showed you how the angle, for example of a fall can decide between a broken neck and a bruise. For some reason you decided to capitalize on it when it was completely unnecessary.

I’ve also asked why, when I’ve replied to those seemingly useless points, you were bringing it up in the first place. Check back. And your answer?

A largely childish “You brought it up”. How original. Give me a real reason here.

Originally posted by Sado22
yes, yes. we finally agree. THIS is what i've been saying: there are cases when it has been defied.

And this shouldn’t affect the rule of overall physics being able to govern the moves that Ken and Paul are able to pull off against each other. It’s still vitally important to any debate involving physical fights, it isn’t downplayed at all simply because a few individuals out of a big population are seemingly defying it.
Originally posted by Sado22
no need to get into this one. i'll like to leave it at this:
if someone dredges up my name in a way that i feel is wrong or through a misunderstanding, then i have to clear things out.

No, you didn’t clear your name at all, Sado. I still see you flaming on the same ground where others haven’t. This is irrefutable. I’m still here arguing against it, aren’t I?

Like I said so many times before, what happens in other events stays in other events. A grudge against people shouldn’t prevent you from reining in your temper when the others clearly are. For the most part, anyways. You readily matched whatever arrogant attitudes they presented as well, from what I see. Remy even had to remind you to fix any attitude problems you had.

Originally posted by Sado22
you call it a rant. i call it clearing my name.

Sugar it up all you like, Sado, but it’s still definitively a rant.
It’s really quite sad when people sometimes refuse to embrace realism to the point where they start trying to dress or sugar up truths to make themselves look better.

And you still haven’t cleared your name. Pointing your fingers at Remy and Darkstorm and attempting poorly to use them as scapegoats, that hasn’t accomplished anything. You’re still pretending that you mouthing off was justified. It isn’t.

Originally posted by Sado22
-and a correction: the guy was claiming it was TEN. and i cleared out the mistake by reminding everyone that it is only three.

Yes, Sado, I saw that in your very first utterance in the very first post you made. You made a correction, in your opinion, that he is a ‘three time champ’.

Then, in your very next post, you say: “winning a tourny with unheard, unnamed fighters”.
Why is it only one now when it was three before? Inconsistency, Sado.

Originally posted by Sado22
so you're wrong...unless clearing a mistake is downplaying the character.

I’m not, Sado, see above. You said it was one, when just before you said three. Which is it?
Originally posted by Sado22
-he was sparring with karin?

Was he? I chose to believe you because I didn’t recall any serious or real fights against Karin, and those two were the only ‘schoolgirls’ I could readily think of.

I assumed he was sparring, since I couldn’t think of a reason why he would seriously fight Karin when his primary rival was Ryu. Provide me with a legitimate resource stating that Karin fought Ken where both were taking it mighty seriously, Sado, because Tiamat’s guide doesn’t say anything about them fighting, let alone sparring.

Originally posted by Sado22
karin is practicallly his rival, DarkC.

No. Sakura is Karin’s rival, Sado. Ryu is Ken’s primary rival. Both sets get along quite well, actually. I don’t even know that much about Street Fighter and I can tell you this.
I don’t even think she fought Ken seriously, the plot guide doesn’t even mention it.
What Tiamat writes:
When she heard about Sakura, she challenged her. When she did, she got beat by Sakura with ease. Now she goes around thinking she and Sakura are eternal rivals.

Originally posted by Sado22
they are family rivals that have been in rivals in business and practically everything else.

Again, her being aware of the Masters family and fortune and being part of a very wealthy family herself doesn’t mean that they’re rivals in business, let alone ‘practically everything’. Try not to exaggerate so much, Sado. It’s notoriously inaccurate, in your case anyways.
Originally posted by Sado22
Sakura was also NOT lightly sparring with him. they met in the streets and decided to fight...or at least she did.

I see, and can you find a legitimate source that clearly states this?
Neither the Tiamat guide nor Wikipedia page says that they do anything even remotely resembling a fight.
Originally posted by Sado22
-not much accomplishments is true. ken doesn't have much accomplishments.

No, it isn’t, he’s won three US Martial Arts tournaments. Consecutively.

Even an unbiased person could say that a feat like that is more than “not much accomplishment”, Sado. You’re still clearly downplaying.

Originally posted by Sado22
i claimed that Ken is also gets his rep by noname losers. not ONE person he's fougth in the US tourney's (and i'll use tourny cuz its shorter) is known. hence its unimpressive.

Precisely, Sado, here we are. You claim that they are “no-name losers”. Why is this, when nothing of any sort, no information whatsoever is given about these contestants that he faces in the tournaments? Why do you automatically assume, instantly, that they’re “losers” and defeating them to win a national tournament is “unimpressive”? Simply enough, you’re downplaying Ken here. Just from this statement, that’s proof that you’ve been doing such.

Being unnamed does not mean that they can pack a nasty punch, Sado. If someone ‘unknown’ was challenging and you know absolutely nothing about their tactics, strategies, tendencies, they’re considered with even more caution.

Originally posted by Sado22
and nice of you to ignore the real part:
-fighting sakura

Which technically hasn’t been proven yet.
Originally posted by Sado22
-fighting Karin

Neither has this one.

Sado, if you’re going to start laying claims left and right, wouldn’t you think it would be a good idea to provide a source where you got it from in the first place?

Originally posted by Sado22
wow you just love to jump to conclusions and label people dont you?

Of course I do, Sado. Not without a good reason, however. See below.

If you read what you just said in this quote, it’s actually rather ironic of you to say it.

Originally posted by Sado22
despite every thing, Hachi is a normal person.

I see, and do “normal people” get blown mile high by bombs and survive readily?
Do “normal people” survive weeks without food and water and air?
Do “normal people” survive being thrown down a cliff by their son?
Do “normal people” have the ability to ‘pwn’ bulletproof cyborgs with a single punch?
From his appearance that he’s a muscular, fierce, wild-haired old man doesn’t mean that he’s normal, Sado, for appearances can be very deceiving.

See, Sado? Insisting that he’s a ‘normal’ person is an incredibly foolish thing to say. See above feats, the very same ones you’ve been trying to push under my nose for a while. He’s unordinary, he’s much more powerful than normal people, not to mention a hundred times as durable as the average human. I personally don’t think Lei or Xiaoyu can survive a megaton yield bomb.

He is not a normal person, otherwise he would not have these abilities or durability or strength.

Originally posted by Sado22
you tried to negate my point by saying you were talking about normal characters from Tekken.

No, Sado, not just normal characters, the population in that world as well. If it was considered ‘normal’ then most, if not all of the world’s population would be doing it. Not just in-game either.
See, if an old martial arts master in the world we live in got held down by a walking cyborg that blew up, the crime scene investigation team would have trouble finding anything to use as his DNA.
Originally posted by Sado22
i brought up hachi.

Yes you did, Sado, and you claimed that he is a normal person. Which is wrong.

I merely compared his abilities, strength, and survivability to that of other fighters and other humans, and deducted that he is far from “normal”.

Originally posted by Sado22
try to keep up with what you're saying and asking me.

Amazing that you could find it in yourself to say such an incredibly hypocritical thing, after me repeatedly lecturing you on the fact that you were ignoring me when I said that Paul was not part of the argument. During the ‘Ken cannot break bones’ arguments. Or rants. Remember?

I’m not sure if this silly little sentiment of yours is meant to be an ego-stroker, but If you’re going to act like a raging hypocrite, well…hey, be my guest.

Originally posted by Sado22
conveniently ignored in your next replies

You would have a point here, Sado. Except for one thing.

Remember the Julia “dodging” a bullet part of the argument? Tell me, why did you never bother replying to that?
Chances are, I’m betting that the exact answer you give me will be the exact answer for this you just mentioned.

Originally posted by Sado22
seems you're making this a matter of pride.

Tell me, Sado, how am I taking it as a matter of pride? See your comment below.
I’m not going to sit around here and compare dick sizes with you. keep pride out of this.

This is where you’re wrong. You’re seeing this as a matter of pride, I don’t. I see it as a debate. I have not readily accused you of random things without justifying it first, such as “ranting” or “complaining”. You’re not, you, for some reason, accused me for “whining” and “crying”. What a bunch of nonsense. The only time where I displayed anything was annoyance during when I was during the “breaking bones” rant.

You even accusing me of such is making it clear that you, in fact, are seeing it as pride.

Originally posted by Sado22
unless i wrong you or claim that you're doing something you aren't, dont get pride invovlved. it ruins the argument.

Precisely, Sado, so why bring it up in the first place?

You see it as a ‘pride’ argument. I don’t. End of story.
Don’t tell me to quit something I don’t even believe in, it’s pointless.

Originally posted by Sado22
exactly. you've been onto me from day one. thank you for admitting it.

Lies. According to your logic, “you slipped and fell in yourself” translates to “I’ve been onto you from day one”? Ridiculous. I’m not even remotely close to admitting anything. I’m denying, that should be as clear as spring water.

As I’ve said many times before, I have not been onto you from day one. It was maybe day two or three. If you read through, the first post was directed loosely at you and Darkstorm, and most of my lecturing was putting down FortressXRuler. If you don’t like me ragging on you the whole time, that’s your problem, not mine. But don’t put or lie like I’ve been there and ever since from the very beginning.

Originally posted by Sado22
correct me if i'm wrong but weren't you the guy who jumped in here headlong and tried to prove something by asking me if i was an "adherent of the tekken church"?

Yes, Sado, you are completely wrong again. I was asking you, without even looking back:

“I’m a mild fan of both Street Fighter and Tekken. Does saying that Ken would win over Paul here make me a member of said church?”

It was a sarcastic satire view, intended to lay some light on how such a stupid and caustic remark to Darkstorm that was. The other part of that was confirming your logic on how mechanisms work in games. I was agreeing with you there, Sado, and you apparently still see it as hostile.

Originally posted by Sado22
this is getting ridiculous. lets sum it up and leave it at that since we are, as you say, talking only about ken:

No, not only Ken, Sado; that was a specific part of the debate, one that which only had to do with Ken, remember? You were claiming that he was not able to break bones.

That was Ken, not Paul, and yet you kept bringing him up. It doesn’t apply to the entire debate, however.

Originally posted by Sado22
-you haven't been following whats going on here.

I choose mainly not to talk about the actual conflict, Darkstorm and Remy have apparently done most of that anyways. Does that restrict me from picking out a few points that I see and expanding on them? No, it doesn’t.

I’ll debate about what I want, thanks. As long as it has to do with the characters, the games that they come from, or the conflict itself.
As per agreed in the rules of this forum.

Originally posted by Sado22
-you don't know the whole score between remy and me and me and darkstorm from other threads.

I don’t have to, Sado, as I’ve said many times throughout the course of this debate.

The thing about what you’ve been doing in this thread is that you’re the one that’s been doing most of the majority of flaming. What happens in other threads stays in other threads.
If Remy can curb whatever temper he, according to you, is supposed to have, then why can’t you?

Why are you the one telling me that he’s directly “flaming” people when he actually isn’t in this thread? He’s been acting like a snob, I’ll concede to that, but then again, if he’s a snob then you’re downright arrogant.

Originally posted by Sado22
-you haven't debated with me ever prior to this.

And what does that have to do with anything?

I debate with who I disagree with, Sado. In this case, it’s you.

Originally posted by Sado22
-you jumped to a conclusion about me and decided to lecture me.

And I didn’t do so without a good reason first. See below.

You have yet to prove me factually wrong.

Originally posted by Sado22
but next time its only fair to know the whole deal and keep ourselves from "labelling" people regardless of how obvious it may seem. consider it food for thought🙂

No, I’ll consider myself what I deem fair, Sado. If I see something I don’t like or agree with, I step in, it’s as simple as that. I don’t need to know background behind the debaters or potential conflicts or tendencies. All of that is moot.

Besides, I already told you I didn’t “jump in” without a good reason, and I had one here:
You were flaming. Remy was not.
I didn’t need to know any background behind it.
You were overreacting. Remy was not.

If he did absolutely nothing except for silly little sidepokes that could easily be ignored despite any circumstances regarding the past and you took major offense to it, then it is very clearly your inability to keep that ol’ temper of yours reined in, Sado.

Originally posted by Sado22
calm down, tiger. your example was lame from all standards...that was the point.

Ah, yet another example of what is considered an ‘Idiotic Debating Tactic’.

Telling me to ‘calm down’ when I was, in all actuality, nonplussed that such a simple and silly concept of my example of showing you how false your logic was in Paul not being kicking a soccer ball, of all things? Really, Sado.

Do you think that a person like me would get ‘worked up’ over something as stupid as this? Don’t go around trying to wave non-truth out as though if it were a flag.

Originally posted by Sado22
apparently YOU were the one who couldn't figure that out.

Figure what out, that I used an example purposefully intended to be silly?

Really, Sado, delusions of grandeur have started to really wear thin here. You’re still, as I see it, replying just for the sake of it. I intended for it to be silly enough to not be considered seriously, and yet you still did. I had, before, already conceded to the fact that Paul is stronger than Ken and all those feats you mentioned. Does it strike you as ‘sense’ that I would use a soccer ball as a serious example?

Originally posted by Sado22
you're taking it too personally

I’m not, Sado, so don’t run around hurling wild non-truths out left, right, and center as though they were fact. I’m not a mind reader, Sado, neither are you. Neither you or I have started actively flaming each other and I have not suggested anything implying that you are, yet you still accuse me, for some reason, of taking it personally?

Not once did I bring anything personal into it. Why accuse me of such?
If anything, Sado, you’re taking this more poorly than I am.

Originally posted by Sado22
and i didn't even HINT a flame here.

Neither was I implying anything of the sort, Sado.
I was:

1.) Correcting you for implying that I’m wrong for telling you that you were incorrect in your guess that I was new.
2.) Telling you to word things literally instead of implying something else.

And you tell me that I mutate your statements around? Ludicrous. The “angel and demon” cliché debate tactic doesn’t work with me, Sado.

Originally posted by Sado22
normally when you don't see someone around its only natural to assume he's new.

I’m not telling you that you’re unjustified for guessing.

It doesn’t change anything, it’s still incorrect, isn’t it? I’m not wrong for telling you that you made a mistake, which you clearly did.

Originally posted by Sado22
you want me to label my old neighborhood as full of people who jump to conclusions and are hasty in their judgements just cuz they assumed i'm new since they never saw me?

That was one assumption, Sado, not every single one you’ve ever made nor what others have done or said. And by the way, that was another hasty generalization. What I’m seeing here is a lot of failed attempts at literal ripostes by you, mainly because you’re not bothering to think them through thoroughly or you’re taking it the wrong way.

That one assumption was hasty and was wrong, but it doesn’t mean that every assumption that your ‘old neighborhood’ makes is hasty nor wrong. Typical definition of a hasty generalization, in short.

Originally posted by Sado22
dont go back on your semantics game now C.

My semantics game? Are you trying to pull off a reverse scapegoat here? Pointing the finger back at me doesn’t work, because you’re only essentially making a hypocrite out of yourself. Semantics isn’t about the study of logic, but meaning.

I can readily recall one instance where you’ve repeated the phrase “Show me where I said (x)” three times in the same paragraph from me believing you were implying it. That’s my proof that you’re acting like a raging hypocrite right now. See?

Show me where i said that. In fact show me where i said that this fight is biased or too one sided. and while you're at it, show me where i said that Paul will win because he has power.

Bang, bang, bang, Sado. And you tell me I’m attempting to use semantics as a “game”.
Yet another bunch of nonsense and hypocrisy from the great Sado. Don’t accuse if what you’re accusing you’ve done yourself to a greater extent.

If you believe I’m attempting a “semantics” game, Sado show me five examples where I’ve expressly used it outside of explaining something to you that you took something I said in the wrong way. Like above. I don’t like it when people adhere to some half-baked false cause like it’s a lifeline and shooting randomly here like you are. Give me proof, give me examples, but repeating something like it’s fact isn’t going to make it any more true.

I don’t accuse someone unless I have a very good reason and can argue for it, Sado, so whenever someone attempts to point the finger back at me they’re making themselves look like hypocrites. You are doing so right now, in fact.

Originally posted by Sado22
and don't play innocent either. "someone with half a wit here" was your exact phrase.

And that technically is not a direct flame, Sado. What’s your point?

Telling someone to “shut the f*** up” or calling them obscene or uncalled-for names is.
Telling someone that they’re acting stupid isn’t.
Learn to tell the difference instead of automatically overreacting with the tags of flame and not flame.

Anyways, you were acting fairly witless there in my opinion, for not being able to distinguish between satire and seriousness.

Originally posted by Sado22
no more games.

Nobody is playing games here, Sado, it’s simply a matter of you believing otherwise. Such as with the “angel and demon” cliché method.

I’ve seen this “no-more-games-let’s-get-serious-now” façade before. Ask any debator, any real debator. It’s largely useless, beside the point and it’s pretty much only a rhetoric. Don’t try and attempt to establish a sense of me, you, or us not taking it seriously.

Originally posted by Sado22
you're getting pretty bent about this whole deal.

Actually, no I’m not. I find it annoying, though, when someone who’s been primarily using semantics as a substitute for a real argument not long ago accuses me for it when I’ve been mindfully watching what I say as to minimize whatever effect of someone, in this case, you, accusing me of using semantics as my “little game”.

I have not altered my way of debating nor my choice in diction, Sado. And suddenly you, out of the blue and without any real proof or examples of me doing so, accuse me of semantics right back. Congratulations, Sado, you’ve just made yourself a considerable hypocrite in this one regard. See above.

Originally posted by Sado22
as i said before, if i feel someone is being unfair in their dealing with me and accusing me without knowing the whole score, i would like to clear it out. there isn't anything more to it.

I’ve also explained to you, many times, that I don’t blame you unless I have a good reason. And I’ve provided to you maybe a dozen times by now.

And I had a good reason. You were flaming, and Remy wasn’t.
Your anger is justified, Sado, I’ll give you that much, but your actions weren’t. Because someone is acting arrogant to you and that you have a grudge does not mean that you have leave to flame them.

Originally posted by Sado22
i am self-righteous? well, to each his own, but at least at the end of the day i've shown to be more considerate towards other's view of me

And is that necessarily a bad thing for me, to not be so considerate of what others think of me? I’ll follow the rules, I’ll promise that much, but other than that I’m fairly aloof of other people’s opinions regarding personality.

See the page where FortressXRuler called me a “b**** prick”, didn’t affect me too much.

Originally posted by Sado22
and in trying to clarify mine and other people's errors in a certain view.

You have attempted to clarify the errors that I see in your points, Sado, but your reasoning is still flawed, and when I attempt to point them out you continue to repeat it, instead of further elaborating on my explanations as to why it’s wrong.

Repeating it isn’t going to help a single bit, Sado, you can say it as many times as you want, but I will still disagree with it. You’re not exactly being considerate when you’re saying that Remy has been flaming to the extent you are, aren’t you? That’s what you asked earlier, that was your initial question. However, it came from a biased view and an incorrect one at that.

Originally posted by Sado22
you, however, not only disregard other people's opinion

I don’t disregard, Sado. Otherwise I wouldn’t have bothered to reply to whatever it was at all, in the first place.

See, I take a look at it, I examine, and if I still believe it to be wrong, I say so. I don’t ignore it as if it were an insignificance.

Originally posted by Sado22
but also act indifferent and claim you'll do what you want and don't care about whatevers say.

And what, precisely, is wrong with that?

You can tell me it’s a bad thing over and over, but it will not have changed my opinion. It’s just the way I act and I don’t like it when other people tell me different. I do what I do, that’s it, as long as I follow the rules. Being inconsiderate as to what other people tell me to do isn’t a bad thing to me, Sado, and I’ll continue to do it as I see fit.
It’s still my right to decide whether I want to, or not.

I tell you to do things too, but I don’t necessarily expect them to be followed, that’s still your right to decide as long as you continue to follow the rules as well.

Originally posted by Sado22
as for not needing to fix anything, there alone you proved my point.

No, Sado, I still don’t objectively “need” to change anything.
I’ll decide to do what I want to do.

Whatever reasons you have, they’re simply a subjective matter, and anything subjective cannot be logically defined as “proof”. Give me logical facts, Sado, not opinions, on why I should change how I act. Not just according to you. In general.

Originally posted by Sado22
you play semantics games

No, Sado, I use logical terms and types of reasoning a lot. That isn’t semantics.
Semantics is the study of linguistics, not logic.

See above on why this statement of yours makes you appear to me as a horrible hypocrite.

Originally posted by Sado22
you get extremely defensive,

Defensive? Yes. Everyone’s defensive in debates at some point or other.
Extremely? No, not even close.

I don’t take it to personal issues that I or you have with each other, see?
I highly suggest you know what the hell you are talking about before resorting to radical adjectives like you just did. I like precision, I like specifics. I don’t

Originally posted by Sado22
you are obviously taking things to heart with some of my replies

Well obviously I take what you say seriously, Sado, this is still a serious debate and I try to extend you that one courtesy by not joking around or messing about when I make a reply to what you’re saying. Hence my complete lack of emoticons.

What, do you want me to goof off or something?

Originally posted by Sado22
and you have made this a matter of pride.

And where have I done that, Sado?

You, on the other hand, start accusing me of pride yet you bring it up as a topic in the first place. I hadn’t even remotely expected anything resembling a pride argument from you. And furthermore, it’s an empty claim; it comes without real proof or backing. It’s like a cup that was once filled with poison and emptied.

Originally posted by Sado22
funny how this is what you blame me for.

Why yes, I do, Sado…see above for my reasoning.

You’ve provided your arguments but I’ve told you where you were wrong, Sado. Remember, I don’t accuse unless I have a good reason. I can’t stress this enough.

Originally posted by Sado22
yes, i've gotten personal with remy but after prolonged silence.

Like I said above, your anger is justified but your actions weren’t.

Whatever he’s done before isn’t important to me. And you also chose to spill your guts at a rather bad time. He wasn’t giving you lip or anything, he was telling you that you were underrating Ken. Which you were.

Originally posted by Sado22
yes, i've flamed him but again after a long time.

Again, I don’t really care about past circumstantial attacks that he’s made, but how you’re handling the situation.

Saying something like that doesn’t really change the situation, at least not to me.

Originally posted by Sado22
no, i've not been defensive unless someone was blaming me for something that wasn't entirely my fault.

It’s still your fault, Sado, whether as a whole or a partial. And despite earlier occurrences, you still couldn’t restrain yourself from letting it loose at a particularly bad time too and in a time where neither Darkstorm nor Remy were saying anything particularly aggravating.

This is why I blamed you in the first place.

Originally posted by Sado22
i admitted to the part where i was wrong but wanted to clear out that i wasn't the original offender.

Why does that concern me, Sado?

Whoever started it isn’t as important as what resulted out of it. In this case, it’s you not being able to control your emotion, on personal levels.

Originally posted by Sado22
you talk about newtonian physics don't you: every action has an equal and oppositte reaction, remember?

I see what you’re getting at, Sado, but you were still doing the flaming in this thread, or at least the incident I’m talking about. Remy and Darkstorm weren’t, which is why some people, like me, decide that they’re not the problem here and you are. Which to me, is the general truth. It’s what people see anyways.

And by the way, it’s a faulty analogy you used anyways even if I knew what you’re trying to say. You’re talking about a dynamic factor here. You can bite back your anger and let it dissipate.
It’s not something to be compared to a concrete subject such as Newtonian physics.

Originally posted by Sado22
but what's your problem? did i get your mom involved in this? did i flame you?

And does that mean that I shouldn’t provide my points? Uh uh.
Does this mean that I shouldn’t debate or argue for what I believe? Nah.

If I disagree with something or if I see something I don’t like, I’ll argue against it, Sado. That’s all there is to it. There’s nothing even remotely personal about this, I don’t know why you brought it up. It isn’t as if I’m defending friends, because I’ve never spoken to Remy and I’ve only had one extensive debate with Darkstorm. You’re asking rhetorical questions regarding personal issues and implying that I have one against you when I don’t.

Why do you simply assume that I’m taking it personally, when I’ve provided absolutely no indication of such?

Originally posted by Sado22
despite you dredging up my name, despite knowing the whole deal you're trying to act as if this thread is independent of what happens in other threads.

It is. What happens in one thread happens only in that one thread, Sado.

Whether or not the influence of the events occurring between you and Remy or Darkstorm or whoever in said threads are present, they are still logically independent of each other. You would have a point if the exact same pattern of events happened as they did in the other threads, but apparently they didn’t.
They behaved themselves to some extent, you didn’t.
They didn’t bring the alleged flaming from other threads into this one, you did.

It’s still independent so far as I see, Sado.

Originally posted by Sado22
in theory, yes. but that's not how it is because the SAME people from the other threads meet here.

And what does that mean, does it always have to follow the same pattern, over and over again? Is it destined to remain that way? No.

Despite the fact that it’s still the same people from a different thread coming into this one doesn’t mean that things can change, and things have changed.

Originally posted by Sado22
its a community. don't be so narrowminded.

I’m apparently “narrow” minded? For explaining to you that other possibilities are present, instead of the same one? For saying that people can change the way they talk?
For saying that it’s a dynamic factor rather than a solid, unyielding one?

If anything, Sado, that’s open-minded.

Originally posted by Sado22
theory works everywhere but in REAL cases.
he practical way it works is that remy, darkstorm and i will keep on coming across each other and things from past threads will carry over..

They’re not pre-programmed bots to follow a specific order or function, Sado, and neither are you. They’ve already demonstrated that they have the capacity within them to be able to stop direct insults or flaming. They may be still acting arrogant, but it isn’t as if you weren’t either, hmm?

It’s a very naïve thing to say, Sado, because you’re expecting that the same things will keep happening from other threads in this one and possibly in future ones as well, this is entirely false reasoning. It isn’t a given at all. It wasn’t in this case. You flamed. They didn’t.

Originally posted by Sado22
this is true because Remy's flames and sidesnips sure as hell didn't stop.

Sidesnips, yes, but they should have been very easily ignored by someone like you, who’s seen it twenty dozen times before. If you’ve never even met each other I would understand you getting so worked up over seemingly so little, but this isn’t the case.

And apparently you’re making the claim that he’s been directly flaming you in this thread. Fine, I’ll choose to believe you. If you provide me some examples, that is, something you haven’t consistently done in this thread, ever.

Originally posted by Sado22
the fact that you've played the semantics game when you criticized me for doing so.

And that was an incredibly hypocritical thing of you to do, as stated above.

I’ve said my reasoning and provided my examples and explanation above. Where’s yours? Throwing empty tags at me is quite useless in this debate, because it doesn’t mean anything.

Originally posted by Sado22
the fact that you're taking all of this VERY personally when you blame me for doing so. the fact that you are quick to take "hinting flame jabs" at me but criticize me for doing so.

Very personally? No, I don’t take things personally in debates at all, Sado. I haven’t for years. Do you have a very good reason why you’re throwing such a blatant label at me without bothering to explain what? Because from the looks of it I don’t think you have a clue what you’re talking about here.

Remember what I said earlier, neither of us are mind readers so I don’t try and form judgments or assumptions about your current state of mind. I never imply when you’re angry or sad, frustrated or calm. I have no way of telling, which is why I don’t make such unwarranted accusations. Why do you attempt to read my mind and in turn, think you are successful at it, at least enough to tell me I’m taking things too personally? This is bare text you’re reading here, there’s no facial expressions, no body language, no tones of voice. I don’t assume anything from that.

And it’s entirely a subjective matter for you to see something as “hinting flame jabs”, so it’s probably not my problem, seeing as I’ve took the trouble to edit it so that you’d get the least offence or hostility out of it. Apparently that has had no effect whatsoever, you still see me as hostile or you’re taking it the wrong way.

Sometimes though I still have to remind you that what you’re saying is stupid or flawed, etc. That still isn’t flaming. You’ve done the same to me, Sado, but I don’t accuse you of it either because that’s my issue to decide how to take it or not. In this case I choose to make light of it or ignore any jabs you might make. I sometimes tell you not to patronize me, or etc. You’ve told me to stop lecturing you or preaching as well. When have I criticized you for making such ‘jabs’?

Originally posted by Sado22
THAT is what i mean. and you're offering explanation now aren't you? but i'm not callign it a rant since everyone deserves to be heard. you don't have to agree with what he's saying or try to justify it, but you should hear what he has to say. keep that in mind next time.

Of course I am, Sado. It might be rant, it might not, but saying that it’s an explanation does not change the fact that it is or isn’t one. That much is fact.

I am reading what people say, Sado, it’s not like I completely ignore or disregard things for no good reason. If I disagree, I reply. I’m not denying their right to be ‘heard’, but I reserve mine to make my own decisions and considerations regarding theirs.

Originally posted by Sado22
by all means...but make sure you do it after you know the whole score.

As said earlier, I don’t need to know the entire ‘score’ to come into a thread and see you berating others for something they did not do in that thread and caused no warranted or deserved behavior. I have eyes, I can read what you and they are saying.

I saw you ask, complainingly, a question regarding why people seemed to disregard Remy’s comments or “jabs’ at you. I answered, and said it was your blame to bear. Then you blame events that happened in some other thread as if they objectively mattered. I explained why you were wrong. We went from there. It doesn’t mean that I need to know background betwee

Originally posted by Sado22
but at the end of the day, if you wanna start a lecture you need to get your facts straight.

What facts? The ones I’ve made conjectures of from what I’ve seen from this thread?

Remy wasn’t flaming. You were.

Originally posted by Sado22
my, my...you're getting worked up or what.

Tsk, tsk, Sado. Wrong, yet again.

I’ve already stated earlier that neither of us are mind-readers, so I don’t even know why you’re attempting, and failing miserably, to decipher my state of mind, my thoughts, or my ‘hostility’ from plain, bare, text that blandly gets my point across. Bare-text without the use of smilies, capitals, swears, or exclamation marks reveals nothing, Sado, which is why I’m not naïve enough to attempt to read another debater’s mind. Because I’ve written a lot means what, that I’m getting worked up? No, I’m just wordy is all.

It’s very ironic that you’re accusing me of taking things personally when you seem to be the one that goes so far as to make a lame attempt as to guess what kind of a mood I am in when I have not given any real clues.

Originally posted by Sado22
look dude i have nothing against you. cut back on your finger pointing

And why do you assume that I have something against you when I have not mentioned, even hinted, anything of the sort? I’ve never met you before, or Remy, and yet somehow you still seem to tell me that I’m taking things too personally.

I’ll point fingers as how I decide to see fit, thanks, in spite of your telling me to do so right now.

Originally posted by Sado22
get your facts straight is all i'm saying.

This coming from someone, who not long ago, attempted to decipher my mind from clear-text written using formal diction and without the help of smilies, symbols, or anything else. That’s not fact at all, Sado, so I suggest you know what the hell you are doing before making such a silly guess.

You barely even know me yet you’re attempting to read my mind? What nonsense.

Originally posted by Sado22
and in Darkstorm's defense: he's a smart guy. not someone i always agree on but when its all said and done he is one of the most respected debators on KMC.

Yes, I agree with the fact that he is intelligent and sharp, but he’s still naïve for a debater. Because I tested him and he failed to confirm his credibility does not mean that he is stupid.

I still wouldn’t say he’s one of the most respected debaters on KMC, considering I haven’t even heard of him before my first debate with him.

Originally posted by Sado22
some are assumed to be facts via hintings others are facts due to one's usage of common sense.

Correct, which is my reasoning behind Ken being able to break other people’s bones.

If it’s something an average person can do in real life, then obviously Ken should be able to, see?

Originally posted by Sado22
others still are facts to a person because they seem to be. to prove a point: you think its a fact that ken can break bones. no matter what you say, there is no proof that he can in the literal sense of the word.

No, I don’t think it’s a fact because it ‘seems’ to be, I say it’s a fact because it is.

See, here’s another example of why this is very faulty logic. Saying that there’s no proof that Ken cannot do something ordinary in our world like breaking bones is akin to me making a stupid claim that Paul is physically unable to do tai chi simply because there’s no concrete proof for it. Of course he can do it. It’s a matter of common sense, Sado, as you said earlier.

Originally posted by Sado22
once again, maybe you ought not to jump to conclusions about people.

Make a decision, Sado. Earlier on you said it was perfectly acceptable so long as I ‘get my facts straight’, now you’re telling me I can’t? Seriously, which is it?

And besides, I don’t do it without a good reason and I will continue to do it as I see fit.

Originally posted by Sado22
if you didn't do that since day one, you and i wouldn't be sitting on the 12th page of this thread ready to snip at eachother's crotches.

Once again, your constant “day one” rambling is typically very far off the mark, Sado. I’ve already said and proved that I’ve given FortressXRuler a dressing down even before this debate got underway and even before you asked the question.

And what is it with you and this silly ‘genital’ analogy nonsense? Seriously.

Originally posted by Sado22
typical aquarius.

And is there something wrong with that, Sado?
Originally posted by Sado22
you think that physics doesn't lose its impact on these people now?

No, Sado, that’s not what I’m trying to get at here. Its presence is vitally important in the physical aspect of things, the basics. Punching, kicking, throwing, balance, jumping, those are things that are governed completely and utterly by the laws of physics. This is the point I am driving at here, not other abilities.

Teleports and fireball throwing is something that our concept of modern day physics cannot explain, therefore is not a part of it. And the other things you mentioned, survivability and such, those are just feats, personal feats that don’t really defy physics. It isn’t impossible for something to be strong enough to be punched through a wall or boulder without serious or incapacitating injury.

Originally posted by Sado22
do ponder over what i have said.

And what precisely is the point of this particular utterance of yours, Sado?

To remind me to think about what you’re saying, when it’s what I’ve been doing this entire time, the duration of this debate? What a waste of a post, really. This is why I tell you that sometimes you’re just replying for the sake of replying in the first place.

Re: Ken Masters v.s. Paul Phoenix

Originally posted by FortressXRuler
They sort of look alike, with the blonde hair and fighting outfits. Paul is sort of like an edgier verson of Ken.

No hadouken
No Unblockable attacks

Discuss

chair

Wow....another big reply.
i'll reply when i get my coffee...this DarkC guy is probably an old enemy of mine from a parrallel dimension. 😄

~Sado

Really, I don't see the point in doing so.

Most of it seems to be off-topic and is pointless anyway.

Wow, I guess it's because I wasn't here daily for ages, but I've been here on and off for about two years... (Early '05)

However, I don't really come here to gather respect, As I've pointed out earlier, I've not always had the relevant facts on games I don't frequently play, like Halo.

you talking to me?

No, that was in response to DarkC's mention of him not hearing of me.