Originally posted by shin_remy😆 Yeah. The over & underhyping has to stop
yeah likeIori beated Godtiers so he will pwn Ryu
and the godtiers in sf are nothing just like Bison in Sf Alpha 3 who lost from schoolgirls while Iori beated Godtiers that destroyed city's and he took on almost the whole Kof cast
..........pppfft i don't say names but it is obvious who i mean......
Originally posted by Superboy Prime
About the ABC...I can't really explain...I'll just put an example of my ideaJin Kazama > Paul Phoenix
Why?
Although Paul has stalemated Jin in the past...Jin has grown more powerful since their first encounter.
Jin > Kazuya in Tekken 4
Jin > Heihachi in Tekken 4
Jin > Jinpachi in Tekken 5
Paul stalemated Kazuya in Tekken
Jin's winning record places him above Paul's.
That's not really A>B>C logic, since your missing a third party. Now, if you claimed that " Jin is stronger than Paul because Jin> True Ogre so Jin>True Ogre > Paul"
Then that would be A>B>C logic
Originally posted by Superboy Prime
On a sidenote we need to be careful thought. Restricting everything can make this place worse.
We won't know until we try said rules. Honestly, I believe more rules in certain area's it will allow for a more enjoyable debates. It will be less of a headache to manage debating here and bad Logic is never good, peroid. If we need bad logic to debate than something is wrong and it's not game versus. I see what you mean about not restricting everything, though. I feel the sameway about non-canon material. Video Game characters really do not have much canon showings as oppossed to characters of other manga. The average canon showing for a comic/manga at least is a week and at most a year. Now, with that said, compare that to a Video Game with 1 year at the least and up to 5 years at the most. I hate "scrapping" for feats only to have it shot down due to continuity. Add game restriction, and it's even harder to find feats which is why I propose we favor Logic over continuity. Now, I'm not saying we should grab every non-canon feat we can get are grubby lillte hands on. But, if someone has a legitimate argument supporting a feat then why not use it?
I hate having feats discounted because: "The character never demonstrated it" even though it's clear he can. My favorite argument against this is the aerial hadou. Ryu, for instance, has never demonstrated the ability to perform an aerial hadouken in a canon game, now does that mean he cannot do it?
I can't believe that I gave in to the temptation of refuting some of the bullshit in this post, but here goes.
Originally posted by TricksterPriestWould one of those people be you by any chance, since anyone would find that saying one cast is stronger than another is a legitimate reason as to why a character from the overall stronger cast would defeat a character from the other, and that 2D fighters are stronger than 3D fighters since 2D characters have ki attacks and 3-Dimensional characters do not, are pathetic and hilarious statements.
The forum's biggest problem is in the form of 2 or 3 posters who who dragged the debating downhill and fostered a new style that precluded intelligent debating.
Originally posted by TricksterPriestSo a thread is bad so long as it relates to those characters? crylaugh
We used to have great threads like Gen vs. Gouki or M. Bison vs. Goenitz. Now everything is Ryu Hayabusa, Kratos, Sephiroth or KH stuff. 🙁
Originally posted by TricksterPriestYeah...banning those people would help immensely since it'll make good ol' Tricksterpriest satisfied and...for no other reason.
I lay the blame at least partly on Guilty Gears, Sado and another poster who used to frequent here, but hasn't been here in awhile. Banning those 2 would be a major step in the right direction.
Originally posted by TricksterPriestProve it.
2nd: I want plot devices acknowledged under the rules. People like Sado and Guilty gears refuse to acknowledge the existence of the plot device weapon/ability.
Originally posted by TricksterPriestGive a source to prove this please.
Like how Orochi has the immunity to everything except Magatama.
Originally posted by TricksterPriestAttempt to prove this. No wait, don't since I know it's bullshit.
or how the Vigoor Emperor is immune to everything but the True Dragon Sword.
Originally posted by TricksterPriestYeah, so if we give Akuma Green Lantern's ring or the Sword of Truth, he can overcome Superman, despite the fact that he never has achieved those really. Sounds reasonable..
In that case, anyone with the proper ability/weapon can win.
Originally posted by TricksterPriestIf it's a "plot device" that doesn't only work on certain characters, then it is.
AND IT IS NOT A FEAT FOR THE CHARACTER IF A PLOT DEVICE WAS USED TO WIN.
Originally posted by TricksterPriestYou're saying Holy couldn't stop anything else? haermm No really
Examples: Holy being used to stop Meteor in FF7 is a plot device and not a feat for Aeris or Cloud.
Originally posted by TricksterPriestStrange, since I recall Ganondorf is invulnerable to everything but the Master Sword.
Whereas Link using the Master Sword to beat Ganon is not a plot device, other than using the sword as a seal in games like Ocarina of Time.
Originally posted by TricksterPriestPlease quote someone making that statement, that is a person making the statement that if the entire cast of Tekken or DOA were to fight the entire Street Fighter or KOF cast at once, the Tekken or DOA cast would win.
3rd: The idiotic fan-wankery has to end. DOA/Tekken are not and have never been equal to SF/KOF.
Originally posted by TricksterPriestNot going to say anything except that you're entitled to your opinion.
Fights between them are alright, but it's painfully obvious that SF/KOF are on the whole stronger than DOA/Tekken.
Originally posted by TricksterPriestI would agree, but ones who've been proven to be able to in a versus match and have gaugeable powers could still be used, especially if the conditions of the debate are canonical. i.e. Hayabusa wielding the Dark Dragon Blade.
4th: Non-canon versions of characters should be eligible, and up to the discretion of the thread maker. But characters who do not exist period, cannot be argued.
Originally posted by TricksterPriestSee above.
Like Hayabusa with the Dark Dragon Blade,
Originally posted by TricksterPriestSeeing as he's been seen achieving it.
or Jinpachi at his max,
Originally posted by TricksterPriestThis case is the same as Jinpachi's.
or Devil Jin from the ending of Tekken 5.
Originally posted by TricksterPriestYes, there is a way. Jinpachi's canonical abilities have been revealed and his powers in-game are revealed as well. Now Devil Jin in his ending inherited Jinpachi's power. You know...if these guys aren't valid then neither is your precious God Rugal or Cyber Gouki.
There's no way to debate them and they just start fights and flame wars.
Originally posted by TricksterPriestThat pretty much countermands your statement up top.
Whereas, someone like God Rugal or Devil Kazuya are debatable,
Originally posted by TricksterPriestSo then, why are characters like Belial debatable? Oh right, it's because the statement that characters are only legitimate if they're playable was never a rule. Hence why characters such as Loz, Kadaj, and Yazoo are legitimate characters in the forum.
because they are legitimate characters, even if their status is non-canon, they are still playable.
Originally posted by TricksterPriestI doubt you have a clue as to what you're talking about.
5th: Like Ashtar said, the logical fallacies need to be kicked. You can't argue for example, that because the TDS's plot device killed the VE, that it can one-shot Orochi.
Originally posted by WO Polaskithats on any site now these days pal
The problem that people have on this forum is there hostility, I think. If people could could quit with the "Who has a bigger dick" contests I think the forum would be a lot better off. A lot of people start off just debating, but then two pages later they're arguing just to argue.
Wanted to make an edit in my last post.
Regarding characters' invulnerabilities to everything but a certain ability or weapon, if a random character is given the correct device, the only device to defeat a villain then the character can pull off a victory. Though it's funny since if that character never got the item nor if that item exists in that character's universe, then they shouldn't get it in the first place. Would be a whole lot better to take away the villain's invulnerability instead.
However, if that's not the case then saying "ZOMG, if Akuma gets the True Dragon Sword he can beat the V.E", just seems like one of those idiotic debating tactics that I know a certain individual uses.
Originally posted by WO Polaski
The problem that people have on this forum is there hostility, I think. If people could could quit with the "Who has a bigger dick" contests I think the forum would be a lot better off. A lot of people start off just debating, but then two pages later they're arguing just to argue.
That is, along with the general unoriginality of threads in here, the biggest problem, I think.
And guys, please do not wreck this thread.
How about Having unbalanced matches should no longer be a part of vs forums?...if one is to have a serious debate.. I would think the two combatants power should be at least in the same range
having master chief fight sakura or other ridiculous match-up (like jedah vs sonic the hedgehog lol) ruins the atmosphere of debate, IMO
Manners are important also... calling someone an idiot or gay just because they dont share the opinion that the character is as powerful as you percieve them (or even if you factually know), is just very rude... just let them think what they want and move on... name calling is just so grammar school to me... I'm sure we're all mature enough to weed out silly comments / opinions and persue the real debate at hand (whatever it may be)
Originally posted by Guilty Gear
I can't believe that I gave in to the temptation of refuting some of the bullshit in this post, but here goes.Would one of those people be you by any chance, since anyone would find that saying one cast is stronger than another is a legitimate reason as to why a character from the overall stronger cast would defeat a character from the other, and that 2D fighters are stronger than 3D fighters since 2D characters have ki attacks and 3-Dimensional characters do not, are pathetic and hilarious statements.
So a thread is bad so long as it relates to those characters? crylaugh
Yeah...banning those people would help immensely since it'll make good ol' Tricksterpriest satisfied and...for no other reason.
Prove it.
Give a source to prove this please.
Attempt to prove this. No wait, don't since I know it's bullshit.
Yeah, so if we give Akuma Green Lantern's ring or the Sword of Truth, he can overcome Superman, despite the fact that he never has achieved those really. Sounds reasonable..
If it's a "plot device" that doesn't only work on certain characters, then it is.
You're saying Holy couldn't stop anything else? haermm No really
Strange, since I recall Ganondorf is invulnerable to everything but the Master Sword.Please quote someone making that statement, that is a person making the statement that if the entire cast of Tekken or DOA were to fight the entire Street Fighter or KOF cast at once, the Tekken or DOA cast would win.
Not going to say anything except that you're entitled to your opinion.
I would agree, but ones who've been proven to be able to in a versus match and have gaugeable powers could still be used, especially if the conditions of the debate are canonical. i.e. Hayabusa wielding the Dark Dragon Blade.
See above.
Seeing as he's been seen achieving it.
This case is the same as Jinpachi's.
Yes, there is a way. Jinpachi's canonical abilities have been revealed and his powers in-game are revealed as well. Now Devil Jin in his ending inherited Jinpachi's power. You know...if these guys aren't valid then neither is your precious God Rugal or Cyber Gouki.
That pretty much countermands your statement up top.
So then, why are characters like Belial debatable? Oh right, it's because the statement that characters are only legitimate if they're playable was never a rule. Hence why characters such as Loz, Kadaj, and Yazoo are legitimate characters in the forum.
I doubt you have a clue as to what you're talking about.
Don't derail this thread.