Respect Thor people hes not a plodding giant smasher!
Thor's intelligence
Unfortunately in marvel and even amongst heathens today their is this impression that Thor is dumb, this not the case. Well in marvel I would not say Thor is thick, but there was one incident in The Avengers when Thor suggested that he could be the leader. She Hulk basically said he was not intelligent enough. Anyway lets see what Norse lore has to say about this:
http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/rune/399/alvismal.html#top
Thór said:
35. "I never learned like lore to dwell
in the breast of any wight born;
with wiley words outwitted thou art:
above ground finds thee, dwarf, the day;
now the sun is seen in thy hall."
This is taken from the Lay of Alvis verse 35. Let me explain whats going on here. A dwarf has come to ask Thor if he can marry his daughter. Instead of Thor killing him outright he decides to trick him instead. Thor basically tests the dwarves knowledge and asks him questions until the sunrises. When the sun rises the dwarf is turned to stone.
Dwarves are highly intelligent, the dwarves are responsible for creating the treasures of the gods, Thor's hammer being one of those treasures. Lets put its this way if its wasn't for Thor's hammer the gods would be toast.
Thor also doesnt just use brute force to get want he wants. In heathen lore Thor disguses himself as a youth in order to trick the giant Hymir.
It is also worth noticing that Thor wanted to kill the giant but he controlled himself:
http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/rune/399/gylfaginning.html#top
Thór, however, said he would be able to row a long way out from the shore all the same, and that it wasn't certain that he would be the first to demand to be rowed back; and he got so angry with the giant that he was ready incontinently to set the hammer ringing on his head. He controlled himself, however, as he was intending to try his strength in another place.
Giants are not dumb either. Alot of norse gods are descendents of giants. Some giants have vast magical powers and some giants like Mimir are extremely intelligent. It also it has been suggested that Thor used shape shifting powers to disguise himself.
Also one of Thor's names is The Deep Thinker. Thor was also the patron god of law.
Thor compared to Odin
Another thing you see in Marvel is that Thor is less powerful than Odin and that Thor takes orders from Odin. In heathen lore this is not the case. Yeah some gods are more powerful than others but with the major gods they are all All-Fathers in their own right. Just because Odin wants something done does not mean that his orders are going to be followed, if the other gods dont like what Odin has to say they wont do it end of story.
This is shown in particular in the Gautrek sagas where the gods decide to meet in order to determine the fate of Starkad. Thor does not like Starkad and basically engages in a battle of wills against Odin. For every blessing that Odin gives Starkad, Thor gives him a curse. This shows that if Thor wants to he can match Odins wits.
Its also worth noting that When Loki cuts Sif's hair it was Thor that caught Loki and nobody else. Obvoulsy Thor had to use his wits to find him because it was not an issue of brute strength.
In Norse lore Thor also has his own realm which he lives in within Asagard. Thor lives in a place called Thrudrheim (Power home) and has his own hall called Bilskirnir
Why did Marvel make Thor dumb?
Im know Marvel did some research on Thor but not very good research but I think I now why they decided to make Thor not so intelligent. There is a poem called The Lay of Harbard where Odin disguses himself and Thor does not notice him, basically Odin takes the piss out of him and makes him look rather dumb. To just take this poem and conclude that Thor is dumb is inaccurate. Odin is always getting tricked by his wife is Odin considered to be stupid, no.
Another story that people use to imply that Thor isn't very smart is when Thor travels to Utgard Loki's lair. Basically Thor gets tricked by the giant Utgard Loki, but what people fail to understand is that Loki was there to and was tricked as well , so Loki (There were two loki's in the story Loki and Utgard-Loki)isnt any smarter than Thor is.
The problem is that Thor is a completey honest and pure being, this is why sometimes he can be percieved as being not to bright but he has enough "showings", in norse lore to prove he is just as intelligent as Odin and Loki.
http://thorshof.org/thunder14.htm
So Can Thor Be Considered As A Patron Of Spiritual Enlightenment?
1. Freya is said to have taught the gods of the Aesir the magical arts when she arrived in Asgard. This would include Thor.
2. There are references in both the sagas and the surviving runic monuments that Thor was asked to perform magic by his worshippers.
3. The sagas claim that Thor can influence dreams, strong evidence of shamanic ability.
4. Thor can appear instantly where he is needed, such as in the tale of Building of Asgard's wall. Either his goats can run very fast or he can magically move from one place to another.
5. There has been much academic debate on possible hidden meanings in the Tale of Geirrod, in which Thor trades his hammer for a witchwoman's staff and is forced to cross a river of giantess's urine. Suggestions vary from a journey of shamanic initiation to a creation myth. It is also interesting to note that the staff was the mark of office of the female magic working in the north.
6. Several myths refer to Thor calling on a reserve of magical power to increase his strength (The Lay of Hymir, The Tale of Geirrod). This allows him to increase in size until he stands 'as high as heaven'. If this isn't magical power I don't know what is.
7. Thor fools Hymir by arriving in the form of a young boy, this is an example of shapeshifting, a talent of the god often overlooked.
8. When compared to the classical pantheon, Thor is compared to Jove, thus Jovis Dais is our Thursday. Thor shares many of Jove's attributes including an interest in law and order and his role as benevolent protector. Jove does not suffer from accusations of stupidity and occupies a position of unquestioned supremacy among the Roman gods.
9. Thor is frequently invoked (more so apparently than any other Norse deity) for the consecration and hallowing of religious artefacts and ceremonies. Thus Thor must be considered to be in tune with spirituality.
10. Thor's hammer has no spiritual characteristics and is clearly not the source of Thor's consecrating power. (Its attributes are listed in the Edda, it cannot be broken, cannot miss its mark, can change in size and always returns to Thor's hand when thrown. Although magical these qualities do not explain the symbol was used to hallow.) This strongly suggests that the hammer is used in this context because it is Thor's personal symbol.
11. It is not Thor's hammer that gives him control over the weather and thunder. This power appears to be part of his very being. Again this is a magical ability.
12. Thor is shown on many of the surviving hammer amulets in the form of a bird, probably an eagle. As this symbolism is not explained in the myths and sagas it appears to be a shamanic form of the god which has not been recorded. This would tie in with thunder bird beliefs from across the globe.
13. In the Eddic tale of Balder's funeral celebrations it is Thor who among all the gods acts as a priest and blesses the pyre.
14. Thor has the power to raise the dead (Myth of Utgardaloki)
15. Thor decrees the fate of Starkard in King Gautrek's Saga. This shows he has the ability to manipulate future events.
16. Thor is the companion of Loki, probably the most daring user of magical power among all the gods and goddesses, some of Loki's knowledge must have been passed on.
17. Thor is depicted in later artwork as having a halo of fire and or stars, and is well known for having a fiery gaze. Of all the gods and goddesses described in the myths he is the least 'human' in appearance. This would suggest that it was recognised that Thor is closer to the elemental forces he represents and controls than the other deities, and therefore very much part of the spiritual life force. Before anyone claims that Thor only represents the element of fire, remember he is very close to all four elements.
18. Thor is more associated with star constellations than any other Norse deity. He is also credited with placing the stars Aurvandil (story of Hrungnir) and Thiassi's eyes (version given in the Lay of Harbard) in the heavens. These are aspects of creation.
19. According to Berlams Saga, Thor is the father of nine of the Norns.
20. One of Thor's quests in the myths is the search for a cauldron, cauldrons often represent spiritual knowledge such as the cauldrons of mead won by Odin.
21. Thor's bizarre tactics in Egil and Asmund's Saga (the story of Eaglebeak) suggests a knowledge of the future. As Thor is the brother of the goddess Frigg (who knows the future but doesn't speak of it) and wife of Sif, who Snorri names as a seeress and father of nine Norns this is far from improbable.
22. Again in Eaglebeak Thor blesses the farm so it has an improbable yeild, another aspect of magical ability.
23. Some of the most complex Norse poetry was written in Thor's honour, the obvious examples being the poetic versions of the tales of Geirrod and Hrungnir preseved in Snorri's Edda. Such elaborate work would not have been dedicated to Thor if he was not considered a connoisseur of the poetic arts. His interest in poetic kennings revealed in his intellectual contest with Alvis also suggests this is the case.
24. The heathen Icelandic legal oath named an 'almighty god' alongside Frey and Njord, this is most certainly Thor the patron of the Althing. 'Almighty' suggests that Thor was considered to be well qualified in all aspects of godhood, and not just good at wacking things.
25. If Thor is not able to provide for his followers spiritual needs, why was he so popular in the past and why is he so popular now?
I will let the evidence speak for itself. If Mike wants an end to the bickering about the term Odinism, it will cease when he and others of his ilk stop trying to apply it to folk who do not include the god in their worship and have little interest the battlegod at all. It is a nonsensical term equivalent to calling all monotheists (i.e. Jews and Muslims) Christians, and no one would be surprised if some of them got very miffed. It may be that Odin is better known to the general public than many other deities, but that is no excuse to insult heathens by using an inappropriate blanket term.
As a follower of Thor I would say that Thor is almost certainly now better known and understood by the general public than Odin. Thanks to the complimentary (if laughable) portrayals of the god as a prominent superhero by Marvel Comics Inc and as an intergalactic peacekeeper by the producers of the Stargate television series. So I am first a friend of Thor, second a heathen but never, never, never an Odinist.
Originally posted by Bardock42
If he is just as intelligent as Odin and Loki...what advantages do they have?
None really. The only advantage that they have is that both Odin and Loki go out of there way to trick people, Thor doesnt but when he wants to he has shown he is able to trick people and has outsmarted Loki before, but because he doesnt make it his business to trick people and is staright forward and honest Odin and Loki trick him more times.
Bare in mind also Loki has been tricked by Utgard-Loki, almost killed by dwarves and Odin has been tricked by his wife on numerous occassions, but Thor gets the stick. Thanks Marvel 🙄
Originally posted by AlfheimSo bascally you are saying Thor is the best God?
None really. The only advantage that they have is that both Odin and Loki go out of there way to trick people, Thor doesnt but when he wants to he has shown he is able to trick people and has outsmarted Loki before, but because he doesnt make it his business to trick people and is staright forward and honest Odin and Loki trick him more times.Bare in mind also Loki has been tricked by Utgard-Loki, almost killed by dwarves and Odin has been tricked by his wife on numerous occassions, but Thor gets the stick. Thanks Marvel 🙄
Originally posted by Bardock42
So bascally you are saying Thor is the best God?
Nope. He is just as good as Odin and Loki. What gets me miffed is people try to say that Thor is just a giant smasher, he is more complicated than that.
For example people always go on about how Odin is a sage and has magical powers but due to ignorance forget that Thor was known for his wisdom and magical powers as well. Hes not just a plodding giant smasher!
Originally posted by Alfheim
Nope. He is just as good as Odin and Loki. What gets me miffed is people try to say that Thor is just a giant smasher, he is more complicated than that.For example people always go on about how Odin is a sage and has magical powers but due to ignorance forget that Thor was known for his wisdom and magical powers as well. Hes not just a plodding giant smasher!
Yeah, but if he has the skills Odin and Loki has, plus this great strenght...isn't he better then?
Originally posted by Bardock42
Yeah, but if he has the skills Odin and Loki has, plus this great strenght...isn't he better then?
No because every good is special in there own way. For example Loki does not have great strength but he is more devious than Thor. Sure Thor can be devious as well but because of his honest nature this sometimes enables him to be tricked. Every good has there waeknesses and advantages.
Lets take Loki. Loki has a habit of ****ing things up, but the thing is if he didnt **** things up the gods would be dead. Lets give some examples. It because Loki cuts Sifs hair that the gods have the treasures of the gods. Thors hammer being one of them. It because Loki kills Balder that he remains in Hell when Raganorak occurs. If Loki hadnt killed Balder, Balder may not have been able to be the new ruler of the gods.
Whenever Loki messes things up, Thor or and the other gods force him to repair the damage and most of them time the gods gets something even greater in return.
Also Loki created the World Serpent which is supposed to kill Thor and the Fenris wolf which is supposed to kill Odin.
I hope that makes sense.