not to sound like a real marxist
but if you look into history and into conflict, you will probably see that economics and nationalism play much more of a role in war. Even the later crusades can be explained by a thriving military industrial complex and the earlier ones by military alliance and border defense, not to mention that there was a loss of a trade route to India due to Muslim conquest.
I get your point, lots of bad things have been done in the NAME of religion, but that is because it serves as excellent propoganda.
-about the inquisition: While I would agree that it was religiously motivated, if you look at the initial Spanish Inquisition and the actions of Torquemanda, you see that many rich Jews were killed, and their property seized by the state. Whether that corelation shows an economic motivation behind those actions or not is anyone's guess, however, I think you are giving religion more power than it deserves, especially when compared to its ability to motivate people vs nationalism or economic reasons.
(By National I also mean territorial)
still, regardless, Relgion, wether in name, or actual religon intself has caused so much bloodshed and all over a false God, its like having a war for the atlantic because they want to make sure theres no Mer people or atlanteons hidden down there
witohut Religion there would without no shadow of a doubt be less war or monstrous acts of what seems zealous, which is actually barbaric, it would be such a boon if humanity did not need it, but ofcourse...its been embroded into us, i doubt we could get rid of it, even if it was 100% without doubt proven rubbish
Originally posted by Burning thought
witohut Religion there [B]would without no shadow of a doubt be less war or monstrous acts of what seems zealous, which is actually barbaric, it would be such a boon if humanity did not need it, but ofcourse...its been embroded into us, i doubt we could get rid of it, even if it was 100% without doubt proven rubbish [/B]
/sigh
any evidence?
And a nationallisticaly motivated king using religion to motivate his troops does not count as it being a religious struggle.
Or do you think the war in Iraq was really about spreading democracy?
Originally posted by Burning thought
still, regardless, Relgion, wether in name, or actual religon intself has caused so much bloodshed and all over a false God, its like having a war for the atlantic because they want to make sure theres no Mer people or atlanteons hidden down therewitohut Religion there [B]would
without no shadow of a doubt be less war or monstrous acts of what seems zealous, which is actually barbaric, it would be such a boon if humanity did not need it, but ofcourse...its been embroded into us, i doubt we could get rid of it, even if it was 100% without doubt proven rubbish [/B]
I disagree... Humans have caused all of the bloodshed you are talking about. Religion is an excuse.
so thousands of people would of stilled died for witchcraft even if there was no religion?
religion excisting alone is an excuse, kings who used to use religion as an excuse are far more likely to succeed in making war or get soldiers motivated rather than just saying i want a territory or these people killed, they would say "for God, God has told me he wants these lands" or the king would simply say that they are gods enemies, especially if they are foreign people then the king would simply say they are against God regardless of their true religion
its still obvious that we would be much better off without any aggressive or racist/discrimitive religions in our minds especially when thinking on a false God
Originally posted by Alliance
Its not going to happe, science never tests the supernatural.Please close.
Alliance, I apologize for the penis up your butt comment I made earlier, even though I think you do need a good dose of anal sex to loosen you up, I shouldn't victimize your frustrations...sexual or otherwise.
Sorry babe.
Originally posted by Jack Harness
If it was proved wrong the world would be a better place.Now this is about every religion.
No offense to god but most wars start because of religion.
Eghh....religion may be a catalyst, but people will always find other reasons to war.
Originally posted by PITT_HAPPENS
Damn Alliance I hope you're joking, 😕 I already stated that in the start of this post that [b]if it could happen. [/B]
And the comprehension you're having is falling little short. Science is NOT concerned with religion or supernatural.
It is not the nature of science. It does not test supernatural, it does not CARE for supernatural.
Thats why its not ''theology'' or ''metaphysics'', its science.
Originally posted by Burning thought
so thousands of people would of stilled died for witchcraft even if there was no religion?religion excisting alone is an excuse, kings who used to use religion as an excuse are far more likely to succeed in making war or get soldiers motivated rather than just saying i want a territory or these people killed, they would say "for God, God has told me he wants these lands" or the king would simply say that they are gods enemies, especially if they are foreign people then the king would simply say they are against God regardless of their true religion
its still obvious that we would be much better off without any aggressive or racist/discrimitive religions in our minds especially when thinking on a false God
1) the existance of god is not relevant to this argument
2) the fact that religion is a good motivator does not show religion as a root of conflict. At best it shows that, as Kali just said, religion can be a catalyst
3) Aggression and racism are NOT rooted in religion, see the catalyst comment again
4) The middle ages were marked by opressive states controlling every part of a subject's life, including their minds. Yes, thousands of people would have died or been oppressed by the state, whether for witchcraft of anti-statism, during the middle ages
5) an excuse is not a cause
Originally posted by lil bitchinessDon’t know why I’m getting jumped on for this but it is a hypothetical question, I didn’t even say that they were trying to prove God or not that they found proof that he didn’t exist. Simply put they could have been searching for the answer to the start of the universe and in doing so proved there was no God.
And the comprehension you're having is falling little short. Science is NOT concerned with religion or supernatural.It is not the nature of science. It does not test supernatural, it does not CARE for supernatural.
Thats why its not ''theology'' or ''metaphysics'', its science.
However science can be used to test the “supernatural” but not to prove it but to disprove it, find out what people perceived to be supernatural and explain it with science. Such as people used to think lighting was the wraith of Zeus, but with science that has been debunked.
Originally posted by inimalist
1) the existance of god is not relevant to this argument2) the fact that religion is a good motivator does not show religion as a root of conflict. At best it shows that, as Kali just said, religion can be a catalyst
3) Aggression and racism are NOT rooted in religion, see the catalyst comment again
4) The middle ages were marked by opressive states controlling every part of a subject's life, including their minds. Yes, thousands of people would have died or been oppressed by the state, whether for witchcraft of anti-statism, during the middle ages
5) an excuse is not a cause
1) what? what debate are you in lol, the very point of the thread is if science found there is no such thing as god so i think he is relevent
2) a catalyst humanity could very well do without
3) they are, the bible discriminates a lot of people as do some other religions
4) without religion, a lot of those people would of survivd who were "guilty" of the ridiculous witchcraft and men who murdered innocent people for wealth such as inquisitors would not excist
5) it can very well be, if a king/leader did not have an excuse like religion to use, they would not of caused this barberus slaughter or war in the first place for they would have no grounds to do it
Originally posted by Burning thought
1) what? what debate are you in lol, the very point of the thread is if science found there is no such thing as god so i think he is relevent2) a catalyst humanity could very well do without
3) they are, the bible discriminates a lot of people as do some other religions
4) without religion, a lot of those people would of survivd who were "guilty" of the ridiculous witchcraft and men who murdered innocent people for wealth such as inquisitors would not excist
5) it can very well be, if a king/leader did not have an excuse like religion to use, they would not of caused this barberus slaughter or war in the first place for they would have no grounds to do it
1) The argument I've been having was about whether or not religion is THE root cause of conflict, or even whether more conflicts throughout history have been religiously motivated or motivated by other means.
2) Again, irrelevant to the debate. I agree, but irrelevant none the less.
3) The bible is not the cause of discriminatory behaviour. The bible has discriminatory passages because it was written in a time before the universal declaration of the rights of man had been written.
4) a)i) I don't disagree that in many situations a conflict is best understood by a religious perspective and that in many conflicts it is, if not the most important contributing factor, a major one. My question to you then is this, since the majority of human history has been dominated by Church rule of the state (at least in the western world) how do you then separate religious motivation from nationalistic motivation
ii) I'm no expert on this, but my thought is that much of the war in ancient Africa, North and South America and Australia might be very different in their roots. I have no knowledge on this, but I can't imagine tribal societies going to war over misinterpretations of Dogma... I hesitate to ask how many tribal societies have written language (a clear precursor to organized religion) for fear of just being lambasted for ignorance.
b) I don't believe history would have been the exact same had religion been removed, but I think you would be hard pressed to show that a religious society can be more murderous or oppressive than a secular one. The fact is, until modern liberal political philosophy and the industrial revolution, the ruling class owned the people. Whether religious or not, in that situation people were going to be oppressed and murdered.
5) In those days, you know, again, before modern liberal democratic states, people didn't have to have a war justified to them. You joined the army because if you didn't the Nobel cut your neck and raped your daughter with blacksmith's tools.
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
And the comprehension you're having is falling little short. Science is NOT concerned with religion or supernatural.It is not the nature of science. It does not test supernatural, it does not CARE for supernatural.
Thats why its not ''theology'' or ''metaphysics'', its science.
But it actually is. It's cute that you guys don't want it to be. But science is concerned with everything.