Oh yeah, Raz slashes him right before the heart removal. Blood spewing out and all.
I don't recall him getting any aquatic powers.
Oh yeah, Raz slashes him right before the heart removal. Blood spewing out and all.
I don't recall him getting any aquatic powers.
Raziel slashed Kain in a different area than where he tore his heart out of, so they can't argue that he was softned. Likewise, Raziel's physical strength was also vastly lowered in the scene where he ripped Kain's heart out, as he was being absorbed into the physical reaver.
As per Raz' own words at the end of SO2, being absorbed into the reaver was physically draining him.
The worst of it? You know all the times that Kain can get hurt in gameplay? It's not merely gameplay mechanics. The devs confirmed that in a question-answer session for LOK Defiance years ago:
http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=37412
"13. In SR1 vampires couldn't be killed by flesh deep attacks, how can Kain?
Kain is never actually killed. When he has sustained great physical damage, Kain takes the form of bats and escapes so he may rest and recover his health."
This confirms that Kain takes damage all throughout the game and has to recover multiple times, even if its not shown in the cutscenes. Considering Defiance has a lot of human enemies, that's pretty damning. Not to mention we already know Vorador, Janos Audron, and even a greatly amped Raziel near the end of SO2 could all be hurt by human weapons.
I don't know why Kain is even given equal billing to kratos and dante. He's much weaker than them. Is much softer. Has no speed feats in his entire existence. Is confirmed to need a time slow just to see mere humans as moving as slow as 'through mud'--meaning a slow down of no more than a couple of multiples.
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Proportionately but still larger over all. Polar bears are strictly predatory unlike other bears, and are the only animal I know of that kills its prey with a punch to the head that crushes its skull.I don't speak F, but that sounds like 0. During the warmer months Polar bears actually do just fine, put them in a temperature neutral situation and my money is on the bear that can falcon punch.
Polar Bears don't do fine in the warmer months. They simply get by, with great difficulty.
There was a scene with a polar bear in the summer trying to chase down a musk ox, and it tired extremely quickly from the heat. and there was still plenty of ice around.
The strength of a polar bear is being overstated here. What you speak of is only for small beluga whales or ring seals and what not. They try doing that to adult walruses and that clubbing doesn't work nearly as well.
Polar Bears don't have much of a size advantage either. The averages should be close. The polar bear is more elongated whereas Brownies are more compact. There two female cubs, a brown bear and polar bear that used to be kept together until they became adults and started getting aggressive with each other. They were comparable in size. The brown bear seemed to be the aggressor most of the time.
Originally posted by The Scenario
I feel like someone should just press the "Kain can't handle fire" point as hard as possible, but I am sadly unfamiliar with any fire based abilities Kratos and Dante may or may not have. There's no counter to it except "they never use it" despite him being fine with Kain using the Dimension Reaver he's never used.So yeah, what fire powers do each of them have?
Kratos - Apollo's Bow, Apollo's Flame (one-shotted an island-sized dude with an attack from this) Boots of Hermes, his various Chain Blades, Charon's Wrath, Efreet, Fire of Ares, Rage of the Titans, Summoning Chimeras to have them burn stuff up, and Thera's Bane.
Dante's got Agni and Ifrit in 1.
Kain's toast.
Originally posted by The Scenario
I'm annoyed by how Raziel hurting Kain in Soul Reaver and ripping his heart out in Defiance don't count for some reason. 2 counts of injury in cutscene vs. 1 'tanking' shouldn't mean super durability. Don't even need a calculation to realize that flaw. Still, fire bypasses it anyway so I just won't worry about it too much.Doesn't Kratos have some Poseidon ability with water?
He has Ice-based offensive powers. No liquid water ones. Poseidon's Trident gives him the ability to breathe underwater.
Originally posted by CosmicCometI don't know why Kain is even given equal billing to kratos and dante. He's much weaker than them. Is much softer. Has no speed feats in his entire existence. Is confirmed to need a time slow just to see mere humans as moving as slow as 'through mud'--meaning a slow down of no more than a couple of multiples.
He's got OP/broken abilities, and they blow them out of proportion with no-limit fallacies.
Physically, he'd probably get slaughtered by mid level enemies in the DMC & GoW verses, never mind Dante & Kratos.
The closest thing to a broken ability he has is the incapacitate thing from BO1, which by his description leaves single targets 'frozen in time', for a little period but it only works on low level enemies.
Possibly gameplay mechanic, but also arguably only usable against those without any magical defenses.
He does not even have that ability anymore regardless.
It's mostly based on the spells he had in the first game I guess, since he doesn't demonstrate the bulk of them in later games.
Then he has the Soul Reaver which was the only thing capable of harming the Elder God, someone who existed outside of Time.
IMO, it's more that they don't know his limits and like to apply no-limit fallacies to his abilities to make them OP/Broken.
BT's an altogether different case though.
The thing is, the Elder God doesn't even exist out of time. As per that Q-A link that I posted above, the devs say time does indeed pass in the spectral realm. It just passes 'differently'.
Not sure what existing outside of time would help do for durability or whatever statement have you for the Soul Reaver's destructive capability anyway.
It could just be argued to be his kryptonite. Afterall, Raziel tells us that he needed to upgrade the reaver to the air reaver form just to bust through relatively thin, crumbled walls in the physical realm. (lol).
Originally posted by CosmicComet
The thing is, the Elder God doesn't even exist out of time. As per that Q-A link that I posted above, the devs say time does indeed pass in the spectral realm. It just passes 'differently'.Not sure what existing outside of time would help do for durability or whatever statement have you for the Soul Reaver's destructive capability anyway.
It could just be argued to be his kryptonite. Afterall, Raziel tells us that he needed to upgrade the reaver to the air reaver form just to bust through relatively thin, crumbled walls in the physical realm. (lol).
Wasn't referring to the Spectral Realm thing, though that plays a part in it.
The Elder God existed in both the Material and the Spectral Realms simultaneously, and there was likely just one version of him throughout the entire timeline of the series, unlike other characters who had various selves throughout the timeline for each point in time and could only exist either in the Material Realm or the Spectral Realm.
IIRC, when he talks to Kain in the past, he is aware of what is happening in Raziel's time.
So maybe not out of time, but he doesn't seem to follow the same rules as the other beings, possibly due to his unique existence, and he doesn't perceive time the way others do. He's obviously not omniscient though.
Meh, not sure either, but this is typically reserved for abstracts and higher level entities and so on in fiction.
It is IMO, but in the sense that since it is the only weapon that compromises both a material and spectral blade, it can harm him. But yeah, it was prophesied as being the only weapon capable of defeating him or some such thing.
~ I believe one of the posters on factpile stated that Kain has ridiculous endurance surpassing that of Kratos' and Dante's, due to surviving after his heart was ripped out. This proves otherwise.
So yeah, misinformation/speculation and no-limit fallacies and so on and so forth. The usual crap as to why Kain is ranked so highly.
Originally posted by CosmicComet
Not posting in that god awful format of a forum.I'm more than willing to do so here though, in the appropriate thread.
Kratos is fast enough to move through a major time dilation that is either time stop or as 'close' to time stop as possible in our eyes, as shown via said time dilation's effect on a tentacle moving either subsonic or just over sonic speeds. Dev confirmed.
Kratos also resisted true time stop in God of War 2 when he moved
through it in the Spire of the Fates after he jumped into the opening after the Phoenix brought him close. He has a fate amulet on him in his personal hammer space, and that never went anywhere.They also are misusing and misunderstanding the implication of 'mental speed' in claiming Kratos lacks that in tandem with his 'reaction' speed, when mental speed is half the equation in reaction speed (the other half of course is muscle speed) in the first place, as without proportionate mental speed your own body's movement will either feel too slow or too fast. Kratos does not see his own body as too fast for him, his speed is proportionate to his mental speed.
Kratos is more durable than Atlas, who was able to tank the destruction of the Pillar of the World from the very center of the explosion, as well as more durable than Gaia. Atlas was still hurt by Poseidon's lightning despite his great durability, and Gaia withstood Poseidon's lightning about equally as well, (except she faced an even stronger form of Poseidon), whereas Kratos tanked Zeus' lightning and Gaia's arm was near torn.
I could relay your responses there too
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
So yeah, misinformation/speculation and no-limit fallacies and so on and so forth. The usual crap as to why Kain is ranked so highly
LoK characters in general actually. I don't see why they get so much credit. Or how Raziel was able to beat Yusuke Urameshi on the OBD, Kain beating Kratos and Arthas there, among other things
I don't get it either
Yusuke is also massively stronger and more durable than Raziel, his DC exceeds the entire LoK-verse by a huge margain (since he's a mountain buster)
http://outskirtsbattledome.wikispaces.com/Character+Profile+-+Raziel
Yeah
Then again, that wiki page is pretty much outdated so, yeah
edit: IKR
http://outskirtsbattledome.wikispaces.com/Character+Profile+-+Kain
Originally posted by StealthRanger
LoK characters in general actually. I don't see why they get so much credit. Or how Raziel was able to beat Yusuke Urameshi on the OBD, Kain beating Kratos and Arthas there, among other things
Not surprising.
Isn't Arthas close to Kain's Level? Or did they give him the win over the Lich King? facepalm2
Originally posted by BloodRain
The gave him victories for all of the wtf's due to him dying, waking up in the spectral world, traversing the area til he finds one of those portals then finding his way back to the battle.
Kain? That wasn't due to his own physical endurance or stamina. It was due to him being the chosen one.
Originally posted by BloodRain
The gave him victories for all of the wtf's due to him dying, waking up in the spectral world, traversing the area til he finds one of those portals then finding his way back to the battle.
lol yea. Pretty sure to return requires a dead body and portal don't just come up out of nowehere, lol