Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
Djimon Hounsou is very talented and an incredible actor, however he is too old for the role
how so? He is only 44 or so. Dude, if they can make al pacino's decrepid ass look younger than dead, im sure they could take five years off of djimon.. Even still, is 44 really that old? Gerard Butler was 39 when he played leonidas. As long as they choose someone for their acting ability over their aesthetic appeal, i'd be happy though
Originally posted by ragesRemorse
how so? He is only 44 or so. Dude, if they can make al pacino's decrepid ass look younger than dead, im sure they could take five years off of djimon.. Even still, is 44 really that old? Gerard Butler was 39 when he played leonidas. As long as they choose someone for their acting ability over their aesthetic appeal, i'd be happy though
But not everyone wants to see an old actor portray a character like that. BTW..Butler and I are the same age, 38,at the time of 300 he was 35 going on 36. Also I don't see Hounsou doing those types of moves.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
and too black.
If Kratos in the game was black, but played by a white man, would you have as much of an issue?
If the skin colour isn't necessary to the plot, then I don't see why it matters what colour their skin is.
That's why I didn't care that Kingpin was black, Kingpin is from a place where he could have been black or white, so it's not really a stretch, same as Nick Fury.
Is Kratos' history depicting him as a white man?
-AC
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Yes, it would be. Say that Colin Farrell was cast as Blade, would you be OK with that? Or if Tyrese was cast as Superman?
Colin Farrell? No, cos he's a shit actor. A white man who is a good actor? Yes. Why? Because Blade was born in a place where he could easily have been white, he just happens to be black, the chance was equal. It wouldn't change or alter his back story had he been white. It's not like Black Panther who was born and raised in Africa.
Whether you like it or not, Blade is a poor example, as he just happens to be black, he could be white and it would not change his story in the comics.
It depends on how their story goes or where their origins are. If you cannot see past a characters skin colour when it doesn't have any bearing on their character, then they really haven't taught you anything about race not meaning a thing.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha CentauriSo you are telling me that if you were a fan of the comic Blade character, and a "quality" white actor had been cast to play him, you'd have been fine with it?
Colin Farrell? No, cos he's a shit actor. A white man who is a good actor? Yes. Why? Because Blade was born in a place where he could easily have been white, he just happens to be black, the chance was equal. It wouldn't change or alter his back story had he been white. It's not like Black Panther who was born and raised in Africa.Whether you like it or not, Blade is a poor example, as he just happens to be black, he could be white and it would not change his story in the comics.
It depends on how their story goes or where their origins are. If you cannot see past a characters skin colour when it doesn't have any bearing on their character, then they really haven't taught you anything about race not meaning a thing.
-AC
How is Blade a poor example? What if I had said a remake of Fast times at Ridgemont High was in the works and Will Smith was to play Jeff Spicoli? Is that a bad example too? What if Tyrese was cast to play Solid Snake? OK or no? Whay if he was cast as Batman? It DOES make a difference. Maybe not to you, but to most other it does.
Point is that you get a certain visual about a character in your head, and when they make a movie about the character and the character is of a different race, it DOES matter.
And dont get me in a racial war, if you think that me thinking Kratos should be white because the game character is white, you are clueless. I am the LEAST racist person I know.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
So you are telling me that if you were a fan of the comic Blade character, and a "quality" white actor had been cast to play him, you'd have been fine with it?
I am a fan of Blade, have been for years.
No, I wouldn't have a problem. Just because I'm used to him being black does not mean a white man could not portray the character. His skin tone is not his life.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
How is Blade a poor example? What if I had said a remake of Fast times at Ridgemont High was in the works and Will Smith was to play Jeff Spicoli? Is that a bad example too? What if Tyrese was cast to play Solid Snake? OK or no? Whay if he was cast as Batman? It DOES make a difference. Maybe not to you, but to most other it does.
Because, unlike you, I am a reader of the comics and I can tell you for a fact that his skin tone is not part of his character, he just happens to be black. Why ask why Blade is a bad example and then follow with more examples? They're irrelevant to my opinion. If skin tone is not part of the integral character, I don't care what skin tone the actor or actress is. If you cast a white man as Black Panther, a man born and raised in one of the deepest parts of Africa, I will call question. African ethnicity and legend play a part in who he is.
Solid Snake was born in America, so unless he was born in a whites only area, I wouldn't suggest it impossible for a black man to play him. Colour is not inherent to his character. There's more to him than that, none of his character boils down to skin tone.
Tyrese as Batman? Batman is constantly portrayed as a rich white man in an area where rich white men rule, it would be less likely, since he became Batman because of being a victim of crime. Black characters were not traditionally perceived as victims of crime back then.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Point is that you get a certain visual about a character in your head, and when they make a movie about the character and the character is of a different race, it DOES matter.
No, YOU do. YOU do because you cannot see past what YOU have grown used to without asking yourself if it's truly relevant to the character. I do not do that, because I am smart enough to see through it.
Don't start painting everyone with the same brush.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
And dont get me in a racial war, if you think that me thinking Kratos should be white because the game character is white, you are clueless. I am the LEAST racist person I know.
You are the least racist person you know, so that means you are the least racist person I know?
I'm not even considering you as racist, you know that I know that for a fact, I just think you're being stupid. Like this:
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Here's an idea. Let's make a movie about Martin Luther King and cast Russel Crowe as MLK. OHHH!!! Here's another...let's make a movie about Abraham Lincoln and cast Morgan Freeman.
You're making yourself seem like a bitter fool. What happened to Martin Luther King at that time, and what he did, could only have been a black man, historically. Being born a vampire because your mother was bitten, in London, could happen to anyone.
I'm not even saying Kratos shouldn't be white, I'm just challenging your rather stupid ideas as to why characters should always stay the same skin tone, and your frankly ridiculous examples of such.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha CentauriI'd wager that 90 to 95% of most movie fans would disagree when it comes to accurate portrayal of a character they are a fan of.I am a fan of Blade, have been for years.
No, I wouldn't have a problem. Just because I'm used to him being black does not mean a white man could not portray the character. His skin tone is not his life.
Because, unlike you, I am a reader of the comics and I can tell you for a fact that his skin tone is not part of his character, he just happens to be black. Why ask why Blade is a bad example and then follow with more examples? They're irrelevant to my opinion. If skin tone is not part of the integral character, I don't care what skin tone the actor or actress is. If you cast a white man as Black Panther, a man born and raised in one of the deepest parts of Africa, I will call question. African ethnicity and legend play a part in who he is.Race isn't integral when creating a character, but when creating a movie about a character that already exists, and that character is well known and is a certain race, then the character should be the same race in the movie. If they remade Star Wars, would a black man be cast as Luke Skywalker? A Mexican as Han Solo? An Asian as Princess Leia?
Solid Snake was born in America, so unless he was born in a whites only area, I wouldn't suggest it impossible for a black man to play him. Colour is not inherent to his character. There's more to him than that, none of his character boils down to skin tone.Color IS inherent to the character, man. If you cast a black man as Solid Snake, you might as well cast Chris Rock as Conan the Barbarian.
Tyrese as Batman? Batman is constantly portrayed as a rich white man in an area where rich white men rule, it would be less likely, since he became Batman because of being a victim of crime. Black characters were not traditionally perceived as victims of crime back then.Thats a Dodge, baby.
No, YOU do. YOU do because you cannot see past what YOU have grown used to without asking yourself if it's truly relevant to the character. I do not do that, because I am smart enough to see through it.I believe that a portrayal of an existing character should stay true to form. Looks, appearance, all that shit. Why do you think they cast that guy James Mardsen as Cyclops? Because he LOOKS like Cyclops. Would you have been OK with someone like a thin black man playing Wolverine? If he nailed the role as far as Wolvies attitude and the action scenes, the fact that he was black and thin instead of white and buff would not have affected you in any way, shape or form?Don't start painting everyone with the same brush.
You are the least racist person you know, so that means you are the least racist person I know?I took what you said as me being racist, but if you didnt mean it that way, forget it. I'm not being stupid, as I said, I believe in accurate casting when it comes to an existing character, and apparently you dont.I'm not even considering you as racist, you know that I know that for a fact, I just think you're being stupid. Like this:
You're making yourself seem like a bitter fool. What happened to Martin Luther King at that time, and what he did, could only have been a black man, historically. Being born a vampire because your mother was bitten, in London, could happen to anyone.BULLSHIT....What if it had been a white man who grew up around blacks? He could have easily been the one in MLK's shoes.
I'm not even saying Kratos shouldn't be white, I'm just challenging your rather stupid ideas as to why characters should always stay the same skin tone, and your frankly ridiculous examples of such.Again, for the third time, ACCURATE PORTRAYAL OF AN EXISTING CHARACTER.-AC
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I'd wager that 90 to 95% of most movie fans would disagree when it comes to accurate portrayal of a character they are a fan of.
So? You asked ME. Skin tone does not play a part in portraying Blade's CHARACTER, he could easily be the exact same guy if he were white, you'd know this if you read the comics, and only people who are simply USED to his skin tone would have issue. It's stupid to say it contributes to his character, because it doesn't.
If YOU feel YOU need EVERYTHING to be precise down to skin tone, that's YOU. Blade doesn't need it.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Race isn't integral when creating a character, but when creating a movie about a character that already exists, and that character is well known and is a certain race, then the character should be the same race in the movie. If they remade Star Wars, would a black man be cast as Luke Skywalker? A Mexican as Han Solo? An Asian as Princess Leia?
You are confusing circumstance with radical and pointless change. Unless there were shitloads of black people on Tattooine to the point that it's entirely possible he could be anything other than a wholesome white hero, then I'll agree with you.
Blade being white is not comparable to any of those.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Color IS inherent to the character, man. If you cast a black man as Solid Snake, you might as well cast Chris Rock as Conan the Barbarian.
No, you're being a reactionary and knee-jerkular fool. Colour is not inherent to Blade's character, fact. Stop confusing the circumstances with radical and nonsensical change.
Blade could be white, fact. You are confusing you not being able to handle him as a white man, with him not being able to be accurately portrayed as a white man.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Thats a Dodge, baby.
It's not, it's an answer. It's me saying it couldn't work because his character simply wouldn't allow it. Read the quote.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I believe that a portrayal of an existing character should stay true to form. Looks, appearance, all that shit. Why do you think they cast that guy James Mardsen as Cyclops? Because he LOOKS like Cyclops. Would you have been OK with someone like a thin black man playing Wolverine?
I don't care what YOU believe, I'm telling you that certain characters, factually, are not reliant upon their skin tone in the depiction of their character. You might need it, the characters do not. Using nonsensical and extreme examples is not helping your case either.
If a black man could play Wolverine well, I'd not give a shit.
I'd rather have had a black guy play Cyclops than James Marsden, he didn't capture Cyclops from the comics at all. Well, he was just a whiney *****, he wasn't a whiney, yet commanding and respectable leader. He looked like he would give at the first push.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
If he nailed the role as far as Wolvies attitude and the action scenes, the fact that he was black and thin instead of white and buff would not have affected you in any way, shape or form?
Not at all. Let me guess, "I call bs."? Yeah, heard that before when you are confronted with an undeniable truth you dislike.
Ian McKellen conveyed ONE side of Magneto's personality well, but not others. If it was a black man who could do both, I'd accept that too.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I took what you said as me being racist, but if you didnt mean it that way, forget it. I'm not being stupid, as I said, I believe in accurate casting when it comes to an existing character, and apparently you dont.
I believe in casting people who can act the part, because I don't sit there reading my comics, focused on whether someone is black or white. If you do that, you're missing the entire point of what the writers main, connecting goal is. That race and disposition do not matter.
Do you know why Spider-Man wore a face-covering mask? Because Stan Lee wanted people to be able to imagine themselves as Spider-Man; black, white, whatever. He is from a multi-cultural city and he could very well have been a black man or an asian man. His character is not specific to caucasians.
If you have a better argument for that than me, someone who extensively reads the comic books, then out with it.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
BULLSHIT....What if it had been a white man who grew up around blacks? He could have easily been the one in MLK's shoes.
He couldn't have, and you're being a very stupid man for suggesting so. Go do your history and research segregation. No white man, in those days, would ever have been in a position to have to do what he did. I'm English, so I'm shocked that I know more about American history than an American (I'm not really, but still). A white woman couldn't play Rosa Parks, cos the very fact that she was black was what caused it. You clearly do not have a grasp on what you are on about.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Again, for the third time, ACCURATE PORTRAYAL OF AN EXISTING CHARACTER.
Skin tone is the last thing I focus on, I tend to pay attention to, you know, the lives and adventures, trials and tribulations these characters face.
You can sit there being pissed at skin tone changes all you want. You've got no convincing argument for most of these characters, simply because you are nowhere near familiar enough.
So please, WHEN you reply, save both you and I the time of saying things like:
"You wouldn't be pissed if Blade was white?", *I give factual and logical reasons as to why not, and explain it regarding other characters*, "OH, SO WHAT ABOUT RUSSELL CROWE AS MARTIN LUTHER KING!". It's stupid, entirely irrelevant and futily inapplicable.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha CentauriSo imagery plays no part in casting? If the character is an innocent farm boy from Tattooine, he can be played by some hard core gruff looking actor? If the part being cast for is that of a virgin who has never been kissed, who is the stereotypical girl next door, they can cast an actress who looks like a whore just because she does the job better?So? You asked ME. Skin tone does not play a part in portraying Blade's CHARACTER, he could easily be the exact same guy if he were white, you'd know this if you read the comics, and only people who are simply USED to his skin tone would have issue. It's stupid to say it contributes to his character, because it doesn't.
If YOU feel YOU need EVERYTHING to be precise down to skin tone, that's YOU. Blade doesn't need it.[/b]
You are confusing circumstance with radical and pointless change. Unless there were shitloads of black people on Tattooine to the point that it's entirely possible he could be anything other than a wholesome white hero, then I'll agree with you.Watch episode I again, you will see black people on Tattooine.Blade being white is not comparable to any of those.
No, you're being a reactionary and knee-jerkular fool. Colour is not inherent to Blade's character, fact. Stop confusing the circumstances with radical and nonsensical change.Yes, Blade could be white, but he was created black. And I am sure there are many non black actors that could portray the character well, but the bottom line is that they won't LOOK the character. Why do you think Lucas cast Ford as Han Solo? Because he LOOKED the part.Blade could be white, fact. You are confusing you not being able to handle him as a white man, with him not being able to be accurately portrayed as a white man.
I don't care what YOU believe, I'm telling you that certain characters, factually, are not reliant upon their skin tone in the depiction of their character. You might need it, the characters do not. Using nonsensical and extreme examples is not helping your case either.James Bond, played by Denzel Washington....hmmm....I dont see it.
If a black man could play Wolverine well, I'd not give a shit.Thats you, thats your opinion, I respect it, I am merely saying that most others disagree.
I'd rather have had a black guy play Cyclops than James Marsden, he didn't capture Cyclops from the comics at all. Well, he was just a whiney *****, he wasn't a whiney, yet commanding and respectable leader. He looked like he would give at the first push.I knew you'd use Mardsen's bad acting against me. 😂
Not at all. Let me guess, "I call bs."? Yeah, heard that before when you are confronted with an undeniable truth you dislike.Ian was a poor choice as Magneto. His acting was OK, but he didnt LOOK the part.Ian McKellen conveyed ONE side of Magneto's personality well, but not others. If it was a black man who could do both, I'd accept that too.
I believe in casting people who can act the part, because I don't sit there reading my comics, focused on whether someone is black or white. If you do that, you're missing the entire point of what the writers main, connecting goal is. That race and disposition do not matter.This goes beyond comics, this goes into books, games, and anything else that creates a character who develops a fan base, and the fans expect accurate casting when a movie is made about the character.
Do you know why Spider-Man wore a face-covering mask? Because Stan Lee wanted people to be able to imagine themselves as Spider-Man; black, white, whatever. He is from a multi-cultural city and he could very well have been a black man or an asian man. His character is not specific to caucasians.For the umpteenth time, the character is white, so they cast a white actor. If they had cast a black actor, the movie would not have been true to the comic, regardless of how good the acting was.If you have a better argument for that than me, someone who extensively reads the comic books, then out with it.
He couldn't have, and you're being a very stupid man for suggesting so. Go do your history and research segregation. No white man, in those days, would ever have been in a position to have to do what he did. I'm English, so I'm shocked that I know more about American history than an American (I'm not really, but still). A white woman couldn't play Rosa Parks, cos the very fact that she was black was what caused it. You clearly do not have a grasp on what you are on about.I know all about segregation. A white man very well could have grown up around blacks and would have been able to relate to their oppression, and could have very well stepped up and fought for their civil rights.
Skin tone is the last thing I focus on, I tend to pay attention to, you know, the lives and adventures, trials and tribulations these characters face.Skin tone is the last thing I focus on also, unless the character is already established as a certain race. I had no problem with Captain Panaka being black, nor did I have a problem with El Mariachi being white.You can sit there being pissed at skin tone changes all you want. You've got no convincing argument for most of these characters, simply because you are nowhere near familiar enough.
So please, WHEN you reply, save both you and I the time of saying things like:
"You wouldn't be pissed if Blade was white?", *I give factual and logical reasons as to why not, and explain it regarding other characters*, "OH, SO WHAT ABOUT RUSSELL CROWE AS MARTIN LUTHER KING!". It's stupid, entirely irrelevant and futily inapplicable.
-AC
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
So imagery plays no part in casting? If the character is an innocent farm boy from Tattooine, he can be played by some hard core gruff looking actor? If the part being cast for is that of a virgin who has never been kissed, who is the stereotypical girl next door, they can cast an actress who looks like a whore just because she does the job better?
If she does the job better, they she has obviously convinced the people MAKING the movie that she does that character better. That's what doing the job is, RJ. That's what an actress or actor does. Actors and actresses who act the best, get the part. If not, you end up with Halle Berry as Catwoman. Visually, I don't think she looked half as bad as some I've seen, it was her acting that sucked.
Vinnie Jones as Juggernaut? Honestly would have been better, somehow, if Gary Coleman played Juggernaut. In seriousness, Michael Clarke Duncan or better yet, Bob Sapp, could have done a better job.
The first instance is somewhat agreeable, but not totally. He could still play the part perfectly according to what Lucas wrote, but you just might not be able to take it seriously as a viewer. Some might, some might not. It doesn't mean he couldn't play the part well, just that you wouldn't like it.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Watch episode I again, you will see black people on Tattooine.
Is it populated with enough black people that there is a healthy enough populace that Luke being black could be possible? Realistically possible? I'm asking you because I am honestly not madly versed in Star Wars lore, but I will get second, third and fourth opinions. In fact, I've already sent out the PMs.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Yes, Blade could be white, but he was created black. And I am sure there are many non black actors that could portray the character well, but the bottom line is that they won't LOOK the character. Why do you think Lucas cast Ford as Han Solo? Because he LOOKED the part.
I'm pretty sure he mainly cast him because they portrayed his characters in a way that would resonate throughout the ages. You are not a Star Wars fan because Han Solo looks good, you're a fan because of the characters. That's why the movie was legendary.
Darth Vader is a white man, is he not? You know who did his voice, don't you? That iconic voice that, despite not matching at all, nobody would change for the world.
Case closed.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
James Bond, played by Denzel Washington....hmmm....I dont see it.
I know you don't, what's your point? I could very well see it.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Thats you, thats your opinion, I respect it, I am merely saying that most others disagree.
MOST others? Please show these statistical facts.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I knew you'd use Mardsen's bad acting against me. 😂
Shouldn't have said it then, haha.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Ian was a poor choice as Magneto. His acting was OK, but he didnt LOOK the part.
If he had been black and got it all right, I'd not have cared.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
This goes beyond comics, this goes into books, games, and anything else that creates a character who develops a fan base, and the fans expect accurate casting when a movie is made about the character.
Tyler Durden doesn't look anything like he does in the movie, in the book. He's almost entirely different, there are radical changes. What do you say now? Please try to get out of this.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
For the umpteenth time, the character is white, so they cast a white actor. If they had cast a black actor, the movie would not have been true to the comic, regardless of how good the acting was.
Spider-Man's CHARACTER is not white, his skin is. It could easily have been black and worked well, it just wouldn't have been received well, but what's received well is Rambo, The Terminator 3, Rocky Balboa. What's received well doesn't matter to me.
In would have been very true to the intent of Spider-Man had he not been white, or been another race, because that's why his CREATORS gave him a non-revealing mask, so that black kids, white kids, asian kids etc could imagine themselves as him, because he was literally, an every man. A man who could have been any race. You do not know of the history or story, so refrain from making incorrect factual statements.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I know all about segregation. A white man very well could have grown up around blacks and would have been able to relate to their oppression, and could have very well stepped up and fought for their civil rights.
It wouldn't have happened, fact, and you know that very well, so I'm not entirely sure why you are promoting this.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Skin tone is the last thing I focus on also, unless the character is already established as a certain race. I had no problem with Captain Panaka being black, nor did I have a problem with El Mariachi being white.
Then your argument makes less sense. Since it all hinges on what YOU have issues with.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha CentauriIt wasnt her acting that sucked so much as the movie itself. An actor/actress can only do so much. Even Christian Bale couldnt save "Reign of Fire."If she does the job better, they she has obviously convinced the people MAKING the movie that she does that character better. That's what doing the job is, RJ. That's what an actress or actor does. Actors and actresses who act the best, get the part. If not, you end up with Halle Berry as Catwoman. Visually, I don't think she looked half as bad as some I've seen, it was her acting that sucked.
Vinnie Jones as Juggernaut? Honestly would have been better, somehow, if Gary Coleman played Juggernaut.That made me laugh, Gary Coleman. 😂
[b]Is it populated with enough black people that there is a healthy enough populace that Luke being black could be possible? Realistically possible? I'm asking you because I am honestly not madly versed in Star Wars lore, but I will get second, third and fourth opinions. In fact, I've already sent out the PMs.I am fairly certain that when Qui Gon and Padme are walking through Mos Espa, there are black people in the crowd.
[b]I'm pretty sure he mainly cast him because they portrayed his characters in a way that would resonate throughout the ages. You are not a Star Wars fan because Han Solo looks good, you're a fan because of the characters. That's why the movie was legendary.
[b]Darth Vader is a white man, is he not? You know who did his voice, don't you? That iconic voice that, despite not matching at all, nobody would change for the world.Can we SEE James Earl Jones? NO. All we hear is his voice, thats all, thats entirely different.Case closed.
[b]I know you don't, what's your point? I could very well see it.Sean Connery, Roger Moore, Timothy Dalton, Pierce Brosnan, to Denzel. Somehow I doubt Bond fans would have taken kindly to that.
[b]MOST others? Please show these statistical facts.Theres no way to show this as fact, it's just common sense, Why dont you start a thread about it and we'll see?
[b]If he had been black and got it all right, I'd not have cared.You have the hardest head I have ever encountered.
[b]Tyler Durden doesn't look anything like he does in the movie, in the book. He's almost entirely different, there are radical changes. What do you say now? Please try to get out of this.I never read the book, whats he look like in the book?
[b]Spider-Man's CHARACTER is not white, his skin is. It could easily have been black and worked well, it just wouldn't have been received well, but what's received well is Rambo, The Terminator 3, Rocky Balboa. What's received well doesn't matter to me.His skin is white, therefore he is white. What color is your skin? What ethnicity are you? You are white.
[b]It wouldn't have happened, fact, and you know that very well, so I'm not entirely sure why you are promoting this.It's improbable, but not impossible.
[b]Then your argument makes less sense. Since it all hinges on what YOU have issues with.I meant to say El Maricahi being hispanic. OOPS....and it makes total sense, I am saying that these characters had never been established before they were cast, so race wasnt an issue.-AC