Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
He simply didn't, though.It was always about the guitars, not the bass. If he was here now, nobody'd give him a second look.
-AC
How could he not have an impact on their sound when he was a songwriter in the band? The songwriting on Ride The Lightning was much different from Kill em All. Ride was the first album where Burton had a hand in writing songs. He is credited with 6 out of the 8 songs. Then we go on to Master of Puppets which retains the songwriting on Ride. After Burton died the change happened again. Though its a small difference, the songs on And Justice For All...had a different feel than those on Ride and Master. Though the bass was harder to hear than the guitars, doesnt mean that he didnt write any of the material. In most Metallica albums the bass is doing the same thing as the guitars, so who is to say that Burton didnt write those riffs?
Originally posted by Nellinator
Most metal people would have loved St. Anger if it hadn't been by Metallica imo.I suspect good things from this album actually. From what I've heard it seems to be more thrashy and back to their roots.
I agree, although, i dont think it would have made an amateur band popular. The music on St. Anger, really isnt that bad and some of it is border line genius. I have to admit, I first bashed this album, not fully understanding why. It didn't sound like Metallica and it didn't feel like Metallica. I have, only recently come to realize, this isn't a bad thing. Sure, the lyrics lack any kind of meaning or emotion, but upon reviewing the album again. I think Hetfield did a decent job at giving emotional deliveries to emotionless lyrics.
My more refined complaints about the album are, some of the songs become annoyingly redundant. In previous albums, the band used solo's to break the monotony. Doing away with solo's is fine, but many of the songs on ST. Anger are just far to long for what they are. Five to eight minutes of the same lyrics and melody repeated is just to much. I would also have liked just a bit more production on the instrumental recordings. The band did a decent job in giving a convincing, live studio sound. Personally, I think they should have just recorded the music live in a studio, instead of cutting performances together. The band is talented enough to record live, in unison...,why not do it?
At any rate, i have come to appreciate what Metallica attempted with ST. Anger. I truly believe they tried to give the fans something original to make up for the slapdash productions of Load and Reload. They may have failed on some aspects, but i think they did a fine job at keeping their integrity intact while taking a creative chance. I urge some of you people to go back and listen to ST. Anger again. Try to hear the music for what it is and not what it isn't this time. You may find something you like.
Originally posted by Micheal_Myers
How could he not have an impact on their sound when he was a songwriter in the band? The songwriting on Ride The Lightning was much different from Kill em All. Ride was the first album where Burton had a hand in writing songs. He is credited with 6 out of the 8 songs. Then we go on to Master of Puppets which retains the songwriting on Ride. After Burton died the change happened again. Though its a small difference, the songs on And Justice For All...had a different feel than those on Ride and Master. Though the bass was harder to hear than the guitars, doesnt mean that he didnt write any of the material. In most Metallica albums the bass is doing the same thing as the guitars, so who is to say that Burton didnt write those riffs?
So we're to just assume Burton wrote those? If he didn't die, he'd be nowhere NEAR as acclaimed as he is. James Hetfield is and has always been the heart of that band. Technically and creatively.
He embodied the emotions felt on Puppets and such. That album was a guitar album.
Burton wrote things in the style of his own playing, bass wise, he could never play what Hetfield does, so to assume he wrote those riffs is ridiculous.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
So we're to just assume Burton wrote those? If he didn't die, he'd be nowhere NEAR as acclaimed as he is. James Hetfield is and has always been the heart of that band. Technically and creatively.He embodied the emotions felt on Puppets and such. That album was a guitar album.
Burton wrote things in the style of his own playing, bass wise, he could never play what Hetfield does, so to assume he wrote those riffs is ridiculous.
-AC
Your joking right? I mean sure, if he didnt die,your right, nobody would have given him a second look. But the fact is that he DID die and people recognized a change in Metallica's sound as a result(When the writing really was all Hetfield).That doesnt mean he never wrote riffs. The fact here is that Cliff Burton is given credit for 6 out of the 8 songs on Ride The Lightning. Burton contributed to the writing of those songs whether you like or not. I am not gonna go and assume things, so I will ask you this. Have you ever been in a band before? It is not uncommon for the bass player to write riffs that the guitars will play. And Burton was a fantastic Bass player who obviously could play the things Hetfield did on his guitar....because he did play those things. The bass in Metallica ussually follows the guitar riffing for the most part. Who is too say Burton did not write those esspecially when he is credited for contribution to the song?
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Ride the Lightning is a bit poor though, in my opinion.It has a few good songs, but they never hit their legendary peak until Puppets, and if you think Burton wrote those riffs, then you're simply biased.
-AC
I respect you oppinion, how ever, Ride The Lightning is my favorite Metallica album.
Right off the bat I can tell you that Burton was the main composer of Orion. And I even really recall an interview with Hetfield or Lars of which I really dont remember. But I clearly remember them stating " Master was really Cliff's album..." I wont reguard that as clear evidence since I cannot provide the interview. But I can tell you that Burton contributed to 4 out of the 8 songs on Puppets. Keep in mind that my arguement is not that Burton MADE Metallica. Your arguement that Hetfield is the most influential member is indeed accurate. My arguement is that Burton did indeed have an effect on Metallica's sound at the time.
Originally posted by ragesRemorse
I agree, although, i dont think it would have made an amateur band popular. The music on St. Anger, really isnt that bad and some of it is border line genius. I have to admit, I first bashed this album, not fully understanding why. It didn't sound like Metallica and it didn't feel like Metallica. I have, only recently come to realize, this isn't a bad thing. Sure, the lyrics lack any kind of meaning or emotion, but upon reviewing the album again. I think Hetfield did a decent job at giving emotional deliveries to emotionless lyrics.My more refined complaints about the album are, some of the songs become annoyingly redundant. In previous albums, the band used solo's to break the monotony. Doing away with solo's is fine, but many of the songs on ST. Anger are just far to long for what they are. Five to eight minutes of the same lyrics and melody repeated is just to much. I would also have liked just a bit more production on the instrumental recordings. The band did a decent job in giving a convincing, live studio sound. Personally, I think they should have just recorded the music live in a studio, instead of cutting performances together. The band is talented enough to record live, in unison...,why not do it?
At any rate, i have come to appreciate what Metallica attempted with ST. Anger. I truly believe they tried to give the fans something original to make up for the slapdash productions of Load and Reload. They may have failed on some aspects, but i think they did a fine job at keeping their integrity intact while taking a creative chance. I urge some of you people to go back and listen to ST. Anger again. Try to hear the music for what it is and not what it isn't this time. You may find something you like.
yeah St.anger is not bad album, it's just a bad Metallica album. The only good songs on there imo are My world, invisible kid, unnamed feeling, and purify. Frantic could have been good if it wasn't for the "Frant tic tic tic tock" thing which was so cheese ball. The song St. anger is 3 riffs for 7 minutes, SKOM could easily get 4 minutes slashed off. Other than that the album is just random with some awsome moments found here and there. Load/reload I actually really like. If one were to put those records together, take th best tracks, you would 1 album of 15 great songs
Originally posted by OB1-adobeawesome!
wow!This sounds like shit!
I've heard 30 second demos here and there, but this is the only full length song I could find: http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=41722462
Seems to drag on a bit, but that happens once and a while with Metallica songs since they insist on 8 minute long songs every once in a while.
I just downloaded the new album. So far it seems ok. I have listened to all of the tracks once and it is a definite improvement over ST. Anger. The new songs all have a prominent melody and the guitar solo's have returned. A few of the songs run too long, like St. Anger and none of the songs have the epic openings that Metallica has been known for. I haven't listened to the songs enough to give a fair review so i won't say much more until i have had time to appreciate the efforts. I will say, though, it seems that the band has listened to the fans criticisms and have tried to recapture their roots. I'm just not sure if they tried to hard. It definitely isn't a pain to listen to though and Hetfields vocals do not sound like they were recorded in a tin can this time around.
Suicide and Redemption and end of the line are my favorite tracks so far.