Respect Ororo: Storm Queen of the Wakandans

Originally posted by Creshosk
The argument is unsound its affirming the consequent.

Just because it worked one way does not mean it will work the other way.

Saying that it is affirming the antecedent is to commit the wishful thinking fallacy.

Damn, I missed this.

Didn't I tell you to take your loss 24 hrs ago?? 😂

Affirming the consequent:

Form

If P, then Q.
Q.
Therefore, P.

Modus ponens

form

If P, then Q.
P.
Therefore, Q.

If Storm can affect the weather through Sue's field from the inside(P), then she can affect Sue's shield from outside in(Q). Storm has shown the ability to affect the weather through Sue's shield from the inside out (P), therefore she can, in all probability, affect the weather inside Sue's shield from the outside(Q).

The antecedant is "P", dummy.

And you're still commiting the Strawman fallacy.

Presenting a misrepresentation of the opponent's position and then refuting it, thus giving the appearance that the opponent's actual position has been refuted.

Quoting an opponent's words out of context -- i.e., choosing quotations that are not representative of the opponent's actual intentions (see contextomy and quote mining).

Presenting someone who defends a position poorly as the defender and then refuting that person's arguments, thus giving the appearance that every upholder of that position, and thus the position itself, has been defeated.

Inventing a fictitious persona with actions or beliefs that are criticized, such that the person represents a group of whom the speaker is critical.

Oversimplifying an opponent's argument into a simple analogy, which can then be attacked.

Wishful thinking fallacy.

Deny reality all you want. it doesn't change the facts. Just because it wordked one way, doesn't mean it'll work the other. Especially ignoreing other evidence.

🙂

If storm can effect the weather inside the forcefeild (P) then she can effect the weather through the forefeild. (Q) She has effected the weather through the forcefield (Q) therefire she can effect the weather inside the forcefeild.

Remember your premise is that she can effect the weather inside the forcefeild, and to prove this point(P) you are using circumstantial evidence (Q). While (Q) is truem, it does not prove (P)

So sorry, misusing fallacy names doesn't hepl you. 😊

Originally posted by Creshosk

If storm can effect the weather inside the forcefeild (P) then she can effect the weather through the forefeild. (Q) She has effected the weather through the forcefield (Q) therefire she can effect the weather inside the forcefeild.

Remember your premise is that she can effect the weather inside the forcefeild, and to prove this point(P) you are using circumstantial evidence (Q). While (Q) is truem, it does not prove (P)

So sorry, misusing fallacy names doesn't hepl you. 😊

😱 😂 @ you strawmaning AGAIN.

You lose.

You simply can't handle me.ermmhappy

This respect thread used to be so good....... 🙁

Originally posted by Badabing
This respect thread used to be so good....... 🙁

Don't lie. 2damn's been in here since page 2, Rutog since page 5. 😐.

this respect thread is a good sourc for storm, not arguements.

if pheonixes sheild couldnt stand up to storms power, why would sue's.

Originally posted by 2damnloud
😱 😂 @ you strawmaning AGAIN.

You lose.

You simply can't handle me.ermmhappy

POkay so you're NOT saying that Storm could effect the weather inside Sue's sheild, and you're NOT saying that Storm could effect the weather through the sheild?

Oh look that's EXACTLY what rutog is saying:

Originally posted by Rutog98
Does everyone see the logic in what I stated above with the Storm/Sue's force-field thing? She was inside Sue's force-field and controlled the weather on the other side of it. She would be able to do the reverse since they are the same thing. The force-field's interior is composed of the same energies as its exterior. Hence, Sue is able to not only block out explosions, punches, and energy blasts by putting a force-field around herself, she is also able to contain these things by putting a force-field around what she wants to contain. This is a fact, not speculation.

So no its not a strawman since that's what he's saying. Pointing out exactly how its an illogical argument is not a strawman.

So no, this is Affirming the consequent. What you intend to prove is that Storm can effect the weather inside Sue's sheild. This is the original premise and the conclusion you wish to reach. This is what is established as the first point. (P)

Then you bring up the why you claim she can do this. the (Q) "She effected the weather through the forcefeild"

If P then Q
Q therefore P.

This is EXACTLY affirming the consequent.

So enough of the fanboy speculation that got the other Storm threads closed because it amounted to pretty much fanfiction. Otherwise this thread will run the risk of being closed for the same exact reason.

And you wouldn't want to have that happen again would you?

Originally posted by stormfront
this respect thread is a good sourc for storm, not arguements.

if pheonixes sheild couldnt stand up to storms power, why would sue's.

And besides that its an equivocation argument anyway.

This is ridiculous, if storm is psionically linked to the weather then that would mean that sue would have to break her psy link to it. If storm controlled the weather outside while inside of invisible women's shield then that would mean that her psy link to the weather was never disrupted by sue's shield or she would not have been able to execute a weather effect in the first place, rather she be inside or outside of the shield.

Your drawing at thin strings if you have no proof whatsoever of sue actually blocking out storm's control over the weather inside her shield.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Is Spiderman can knock out firelord why not <insert character that's easier to knock out than firelord>

And besides that its an equivocation argument anyway.

Desperate. Here is the difference between Storm and Spiderman:

Spiderman beat out Firelord with his Class 10 strength. He was not written in that issue as being some kind of world destroyer. Storm, on the other hand, has canon that parallels her powers to that of Dark Phoenix. Her power is near-infinite. This is canon and thus irrefutable. She has summoned the full power of millions of stars, she has defeated beings that was the sum of an entire reality and has held the essense of Eternity. She has been able to redirect world-destroying blasts with her winds as well as control weather on a continental scale on several occassions, control it over an entire hemisphere (half the planet) and even on a global scale while also controlling gamma rays simultaneously on a global scale. There is an interview with the writer who created the Phoenix Force that gives us insight into his thinking that puts Storm on Phoenix's level as a 3-D goddess and he established this in canon though you guys want to ignore all the signs since it puts her well above where you want her to be. This writer has also stated that Storm and Phoenix both have the power and will to end life on the planet and that they held each other in check. This all goes along with what he wrote in canon. In other words, your desperate interpretations of what he wrote is incorrect.

In the case of Spiderman, Firelord was devalued. in Storm's case, she's not devaluing any character by summoning the full power of millions of stars or doing the things she does. Claremont established for her early in her career as a character the foundation for a writer to make the character as powerful as they wish. I know many of you don't like it, but its canon. Deal with it.

Storm really is boss and all that we say she is and more. You guys need to accept it and get over it.

Shots out to everybody

What up Rutogg

😄

About the discusion,

Originally posted by The Weather God
This is ridiculous, if storm is psionically linked to the weather then that would mean that sue would have to break her psy link to it. If storm controlled the weather outside while inside of invisible women's shield then that would mean that her psy link to the weather was never disrupted by sue's shield or she would not have been able to execute a weather effect in the first place, rather she be inside or outside of the shield.

Your drawing at thin strings if you have no proof whatsoever of sue actually blocking out storm's control over the weather inside her shield.

That's knida how I see it. If Storm couldn't affect the atmosphere inside of Sue's shield because of some sort of inerferance, than she should not be able to manipulate weather outside of Sue's shield without Sue making referance about allowing her to do it. Or without someone telling Sue to let Ro do what she has to do.

The scene also seemed to happen fairly quickly, with little time to plan or gauge how they would handle falling through the floor. I think Sue could form a shield with "let Storm's thoughts out" foresite, specifically, in that situation.

Hey loud, 🙂

be easy cousin

Creshosk might disagree,
but he's one of the few that actually explains where he's commin from.

We've had our run in's,

But I respect him.

Originally posted by The Weather God
This is ridiculous, if storm is psionically linked to the weather then that would mean that sue would have to break her psy link to it. If storm controlled the weather outside while inside of invisible women's shield then that would mean that her psy link to the weather was never disrupted by sue's shield or she would not have been able to execute a weather effect in the first place, rather she be inside or outside of the shield.

Your drawing at thin strings if you have no proof whatsoever of sue actually blocking out storm's control over the weather inside her shield.

PERFECT! 😱

Especially the underlined portion.

Plus Sue can't actively block out everything from entering her shield. She was sweating bullets from heat when she was in fire with her shield around her.

She can't control the atmosphere in her shield, or actively block storm's brand of psionic manipulation.

It's not like Sue would know what to block out, anyway. She, in all probability, doesn't know how storm manipulates the weather. Unless you all want to support your arguments with circumstantial evidence😖hifty:

This supports our Affirming the antecedent argument.

Originally posted by BlueDMighty
The scene also seemed to happen fairly quickly, with little time to plan or gauge how they would handle falling through the floor. I think Sue could form a shield with "let Storm's thoughts out" foresite, specifically, in that situation.

So your saying it's possible for sue to block psychic and telekinetic energy from her shield, and that she could allow the energy to pass through her shield even while she haves it up?

I think it's a bit far fetched seeing as how I've never seen or heard of IW ever being able to block telepathy or teke out of her shield. Also even if storm was able to form a thought before sue put the shield up she would still have to telekinetically guide her weather effects as they execute.

Originally posted by The Weather God
This is ridiculous, if storm is psionically linked to the weather then that would mean that sue would have to break her psy link to it.

Originally posted by The Weather God
If storm controlled the weather outside while inside of invisible women's shield then that would mean that her psy link to the weather was never disrupted by sue's shield or she would not have been able to execute a weather effect in the first place, rather she be inside or outside of the shield.

I still have yet to see concrete proof beyond the speculatory fallacy of why it would work.

Originally posted by The Weather God
Your drawing at thin strings if you have no proof whatsoever of sue actually blocking out storm's control over the weather inside her shield.

Originally posted by 2damnloud
PERFECT! 😱

Especially the underlined portion.

Plus Sue can't actively block out everything from entering her shield. She was sweating bullets from heat when she was in fire with her shield around her.

She can't control the atmosphere in her shield, or actively block storm's brand of psionic manipulation.

It's not like Sue would know what to block out, anyway. She, in all probability, doesn't know how storm manipulates the weather. Unless you all want to support your arguments with circumstantial evidence😖hifty:

This supports our Affirming the antecedent argument.

Your arguments are invalid... and I'm thinking of reporting the thread to digi for breaking the agreement to keep fan speculation out of it as per what got the other threads closed. We don't need respect threads to be fan based wankery. Which is what it is presently.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Disrupting a psi link by blocking the psionic energy is a distinct posability. As was shown when psionic shielding was put in place it does break psi links. Like when Jean shut herself in the psi sheilded room id disrupted the psychic rapport they had.

Ok first thing, you have no concrete evidence to support your claim as of now. I have seen zip proof that sue can block this sort of energy and we all know sue's shields do not hold up to everything. But we do however have proof that storm used her powers through IW shields, that's alot more on the table then what you've brought.

Originally posted by Creshosk

Affirming the consequent still. Just because it worked in one instance doesn't mean that it'd work in another.

Ok there is no difference here, there is hard proof that storm's telekinesis passed through sue's force field to manipulate the weather outside of her shield. What would be the difference if it were in mirror? The same thing will execute on the outside of the shield, storm's teke will go through her shield to manipulate the weather inside. What possible other solid evidence has suggested otherwise?

Originally posted by Creshosk
I still have yet to see concrete proof beyond the speculatory fallacy of why it would work.

The concrete proof is there, your still hanging on to strings with no solid evidence.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Actually you still have yet to prove *** would work the wayyou say it will. Burden of proof is on your shoulders, and you're the one grasping at straws by using the affirming the consequent.

Ok i'm grasping at straws when the damn scan is sitting right in front of you showing proof of storm's control going through sue's shield. The only way to suggest otherwise would be for you to actually bring solid proof of sue actually blocking out a person's power and at the same time allowing them to use their powers through her shield.

That my friend is a speculatory philosophy

Originally posted by The Weather God
Ok first thing, you have no concrete evidence to support your claim as of now.

Originally posted by The Weather God
I have seen zip proof that sue can block this sort of energy and we all know sue's shields do not hold up to everything. But we do however have proof that storm used her powers through IW shields, that's alot more on the table then what you've brought.

Originally posted by The Weather God
Ok there is no difference here, there is hard proof that storm's telekinesis passed through sue's force field to manipulate the weather [b]outside of her shield.[/b]

Originally posted by The Weather God
What would be the difference if it were in mirror? The same thing will execute on the outside of the shield, storm's teke will go through her shield to manipulate the weather inside. What possible other solid evidence has suggested otherwise?

Originally posted by The Weather God
The concrete proof is there,[/b[]/quote] That's not concrete. Saying it is commits the wishful thinking fallacy.

[QUOTE=9914631]Originally posted by The Weather God
[B] your still hanging on to strings with no solid evidence.

Originally posted by The Weather God
Ok i'm grasping at straws when the damn scan is sitting right in front of you showing proof of storm's control going through sue's shield.

Originally posted by The Weather God
The only way to suggest otherwise would be for you to actually bring solid proof of sue actually blocking out a person's power and at the same time allowing them to use their powers through her shield.

Originally posted by The Weather God
That my friend is a speculatory falsify

Now if you have nothing else aside from this circular reasoning bullshit to try and justify your affirmation of the consequent I suggest you drop it. Otherwise I'm taking the Matter to Digimark to see about having him end the fan wank session.

Originally posted by Creshosk
You need scans of the onslaught saga when Jean closed the door to the off-limits room with juggernaut in there and the rapport with Cyclops was cut off?

Jean is not sue, i want proof of sue doing this

Originally posted by Creshosk
No, Beringing fallacy is alot LESS than what I've brought to the table. It shows a desperation that casts doubt on your objectivity, "Weather God".

It's Bringing(please learn how to spell) and it's not fallacy if the execution is the same.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Affirming the consequent. Not a viable argument.

It's viable because the outcome will be the same execution, energy passing through the shield, you have provided no proof of sue ever being able to block out storm's energy that manipulates the weather, but on this hand we have proof of storm's energy going right through her shield.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Like in the scan provided where Storm's wind is stopped?

Not sure what scan you are talking about, but stopping storm's winds have little to do with cutting off her link that controls the weather.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Please don't try to use words you don't understand.. that garbled mucsh you spouted doesn't help your situation.

LoL i actually thought you meant Philosophy and that you were spelling it wrong. I don't mind being corrected but maybe the next time you might want to think twice about disrespecting someone's intelligence like some college jocky who's got the stick so far up his ass.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Now if you have nothing else aside from this circular reasoning bullshit to try and justify your affirmation of the consequent I suggest you drop it. Otherwise I'm taking the Matter to Digimark to see about having him end the fan wank session.

No what he needs to do is ban you from this discussion with your speculation bullshit with no solid evidence. I think i remember you, only that you had a different user name xmarksthespot. The known storm hater to all.

Originally posted by The Weather God
Jean is not sue, i want proof of sue doing this

Originally posted by The Weather God
It's Bringing(please learn how to spell)

Originally posted by The Weather God
and it's not fallacy if the execution is the same.

Originally posted by The Weather God
It's viable because the outcome will be the same execution, energy passing through the shield, you have provided no proof of sue ever being able to block out storm's energy that manipulates the weather, but on this hand we have proof of storm's energy going right through her shield.

Originally posted by The Weather God
Not sure what scan you are talking about, but stopping storm's winds have little to do with cutting off her link that controls the weather.

Did you forget what you challenged again? Shameful...

"bring solid proof of sue actually blocking out a person's power and at the same time allowing them to use their powers through her shield."

Originally posted by The Weather God
LoL i actually thought you meant [b]Philosophy and that you were spelling it wrong.[/b]

Originally posted by The Weather God
I don't mind being corrected but maybe the next time you might want to think twice about disrespecting someone's intelligence like some college jocky who's got the stick so far up his ass.

And yes, I'm an asshole, an no you are not allowd to call me that.

Originally posted by The Weather God
No what he needs to do is ban you from this discussion with your speculation bullshit

Originally posted by The Weather God
with no solid evidence. I think i remember you, only that you had a different user name xmarksthespot. The known storm hater to all.

See? I can throw your irrational "They don't agree that this character is the god/goddess I perceive them to be they must hate the character!"

Appeal to motive fallacy.