You Cannot Prove Zeus doesn't Exist

I simply tire of the counter argument "You can't PROVE that God DOESN'T EXIST" as a response to the statement that God's existance cannot be proven.

You can't prove Zeus doesn't exist either.

You can't prove Santa Clause doesn't exist either.

You can't prove the Tooth Fairy doesn't exist either.

You can't prove the flying spaghetti monster doesn't exist either.

You can't prove the floating teacup in outer space doesn't exist either.

All you have to go by is Logic, History, and Science. Please realize the fallacy of the argument "You cannot Prove God doesn't exist".

All of you Christians, Jews, Muslims, and other Theists deny the existance of other myths and possibilities, but will defend your own to the death, even though you know you cannot prove your beleif true.

Your arguments will earn respect when you clarify your beleif as beleif, but once you claim your beleif as truth that is when the Burden of Proof falls upon you.

Understand ?

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
I simply tire of the counter argument [b]"You can't PROVE that God DOESN'T EXIST" as a response to the statement that God's existance cannot be proven.

You can't prove Zeus doesn't exist either.

You can't prove Santa Clause doesn't exist either.

You can't prove the Tooth Fairy doesn't exist either.

You can't prove the flying spaghetti monster doesn't exist either.

You can't prove the floating teacup in outer space doesn't exist either.

All you have to go by is Logic, History, and Science. Please realize the fallacy of the argument "You cannot Prove God doesn't exist".

All of you Christians, Jews, Muslims, and other Theists deny the existance of other myths and possibilities, but will defend your own to the death, even though you know you cannot prove your beleif true.

Your arguments will earn respect when you clarify your beleif as beleif, but once you claim your beleif as truth that is when the Burden of Proof falls upon you.

Understand ? [/B]

Originally posted by Creshosk
You're familiar with the logical concept of argumentum ad ignorantiam, right?

If you disagree with my point, then counter it.

But I don't make the entirely outlandish claim that I have a personal relationship with Zeus, father Christmas or the tooth fairy. None of those characters have done anything to justify their existence in my life. None of them have presented themselves to me through scripture, through miraculous events, through feelings and emotions that I couldn't prove but I know 110% to be truth, to be an act of God in my life. I can't prove it but nonetheless I know it to be truth.

If you put yourself in my shoes. When I read my Bible I find references to events of solutions to problems in my daily life. I find things that affect me on a deep personal level. It isn't just tips or simply advisory quotes it's like some amazing revelation has hit me like a ton of bricks and I feel stupid and ignorant for missing these solutions before.

That's just scripture.

When I pray it isn't me just whispering something on the wind in hopes that finally someone will speak back. When I pray God answers me. God presents answers to my prayers through opportunities with people, conversation and through revealing things I wouldn't have thought of before. This sounds crazy I know, but If I cared about people thinking I was crazy, I wouldn't be telling anyone this.

I tell you this not to convince you suddenly that God exists or to tell you you should believe this or that. I'm just saying it so maybe you can emphasise and understand why I can say without a shadow of doubt that i know God exists even if I can't prove it. I don't necessarily expect anyone's opinions to suddenly change but I at least expect them to have respect for my opinion if they don't agree. 😄

Originally posted by willRules
But I don't make the entirely outlandish claim that I have a personal relationship with Zeus, father Christmas or the tooth fairy. None of those characters have done anything to justify their existence in my life. None of them have presented themselves to me through scripture, through miraculous events, through feelings and emotions that I couldn't prove but I know 110% to be truth, to be an act of God in my life. I can't prove it but nonetheless I know it to be truth.

If you put yourself in my shoes. When I read my Bible I find references to events of solutions to problems in my daily life. I find things that affect me on a deep personal level. It isn't just tips or simply advisory quotes it's like some amazing revelation has hit me like a ton of bricks and I feel stupid and ignorant for missing these solutions before.

That's just scripture.

When I pray it isn't me just whispering something on the wind in hopes that finally someone will speak back. When I pray God answers me. God presents answers to my prayers through opportunities with people, conversation and through revealing things I wouldn't have thought of before. This sounds crazy I know, but If I cared about people thinking I was crazy, I wouldn't be telling anyone this.

I tell you this not to convince you suddenly that God exists or to tell you you should believe this or that. I'm just saying it so maybe you can emphasise and understand why I can say without a shadow of doubt that i know God exists even if I can't prove it. I don't necessarily expect anyone's opinions to suddenly change but I at least expect them to have respect for my opinion if they don't agree. 😄

You misunderstand me.

I am not here to destroy your Faith, or get you to become Atheist.

I am glad you beleive in God, and that you have something helping you grow stronger. All I am saying is if you claim your beleif as fact, then you must prove it to us.

If you want me to beleive what you beleive, then prove to me that you are right and my beleifs are wrong.

If you don't care what I beleive, then don't tell me what to beleive. I trust my senses, knowledge, and experiences, and I do not need to replace mine with your own.

**********************************************************

What I am attacking is the specific argument "You cannot Prove that God Doesn't Exist". There's no need to prove it. I don't want to care to prove that.

The argument fails, and I already explained why.

Likewise, you shouldn't have to justify to me why you beleive something. Whatever you beleive is your right, and none of my business.

Just don't expect me to beleive what you say when you preach to me (like u often do), without providing me evidense for your claims.

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
You misunderstand me.

I am not here to destroy your Faith, or get you to become Atheist.

I am glad you beleive in God, and that you have something helping you grow stronger. All I am saying is if you [b]claim your beleif as fact, then you must prove it to us.

If you want me to beleive what you beleive, then prove to me that you are right and my beleifs are wrong.

If you don't care what I beleive, then don't tell me what to beleive. I trust my senses, knowledge, and experiences, and I do not need to replace mine with your own.

**********************************************************

What I am attacking is the specific argument "You cannot Prove that God Doesn't Exist". There's no need to prove it. I don't want to care to prove that.

The argument fails, and I already explained why.

Likewise, you shouldn't have to justify to me why you beleive something. Whatever you beleive is your right, and none of my business.

Just don't expect me to beleive what you say when you preach to me (like u often do), without providing me evidense for your claims. [/B]

Well that's a matter of your choice. Like I said I can't prove it but I know it to be true. On this statement alone I can't expect you suddenly believe the same thing unless you experience the same thing I experienced, unless God speaks to you in the same way he has spoken to me. I'm sorry if I sound preachy, I just felt it necessary to express my beliefs in order to reach some level of understanding ✅

Originally posted by willRules
Well that's a matter of your choice. Like I said I can't prove it but I know it to be true.

Like I already said. I can't prove what I beleive either, but I know it to be true.

You see ? That's the problem.

I know what I beleive is true, and you know what you beleive is true. So whose right and whose wrong ?

Originally posted by willRules
On this statement alone I can't expect you suddenly believe the same thing unless you experience the same thing I experienced, unless God speaks to you in the same way he has spoken to me.

And you will not be able to see things my way unless you had my experiences either.

I have been Christian for 18 years, and I kept feeding myself the Lie that anytime something good happened to me, it was God's doing.

That's not true. I learned that now. We only have eachother. And we are all responsible for our own lives.

Originally posted by willRules
I'm sorry if I sound preachy,

You do....

Originally posted by willRules
I just felt it necessary to express my beliefs in order to reach some level of understanding ✅

Do Not apologize to me for expressing your beleifs. You owe me no such apology.

If you are going to apologize for anything, apologize for claiming your beleif as truth without supporting it with evidense.

Originally posted by willRules
But I don't make the entirely outlandish claim that I have a personal relationship with Zeus, father Christmas or the tooth fairy. None of those characters have done anything to justify their existence in my life. None of them have presented themselves to me through scripture, through miraculous events, through feelings and emotions that I couldn't prove but I know 110% to be truth, to be an act of God in my life. I can't prove it but nonetheless I know it to be truth.

If you put yourself in my shoes. When I read my Bible I find references to events of solutions to problems in my daily life. I find things that affect me on a deep personal level. It isn't just tips or simply advisory quotes it's like some amazing revelation has hit me like a ton of bricks and I feel stupid and ignorant for missing these solutions before.

That's just scripture.

When I pray it isn't me just whispering something on the wind in hopes that finally someone will speak back. When I pray God answers me. God presents answers to my prayers through opportunities with people, conversation and through revealing things I wouldn't have thought of before. This sounds crazy I know, but If I cared about people thinking I was crazy, I wouldn't be telling anyone this.

I tell you this not to convince you suddenly that God exists or to tell you you should believe this or that. I'm just saying it so maybe you can emphasise and understand why I can say without a shadow of doubt that i know God exists even if I can't prove it. I don't necessarily expect anyone's opinions to suddenly change but I at least expect them to have respect for my opinion if they don't agree. 😄

Are you an introvert?

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
If you disagree with my point, then counter it.

A bit like going

"Nanny nany boo boo gaga wanga binga. Counter that point!"

Originally posted by Jim Reaper
Are you an introvert?

Not really. I love to socialize. ✅

Originally posted by Creshosk
You know when you go and make a post that's obviously dripping with heavy sarcasm it kinda makes you look childish to make a post like this.

A bit like going

"Nanny nany boo boo gaga wanga binga. Counter that point!"

If you disagree with my point, then counter it.

Btw, you were the one utilizing sarcasm. My point is valid. If you disagree, prove its invalidity.

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
If you disagree with my point, then counter it.

Btw, you were the one utilizing sarcasm. My point is valid. If you disagree, prove its invalidity.

My second one... no not really sarcastic.

But it's pretty evident that your first post in this thread is heavily sarcastic.

I mean come on...

"You can't prove the flying spaghetti monster doesn't exist either.

You can't prove the floating teacup in outer space doesn't exist either."

So how am I supposed to take you seriously? Your points aren't valid because they commit the fallacy of argumentum ad ignorantiam.

So It's quite akin to wanting me to counter a point of "Nanny nany boo boo gaga wanga binga"

Nonesense. I'm supposed to counter nonesense?

Originally posted by Creshosk
My first post wasn't sarcastic in the slightest.

My second one... no not really sarcastic.

But it's pretty evident that your first post in this thread is heavily sarcastic.

I mean come on...

"You can't prove the flying spaghetti monster doesn't exist either.

You can't prove the floating teacup in outer space doesn't exist either."

So how am I supposed to take you seriously? Your points aren't valid because they commit the fallacy of argumentum ad ignorantiam.

So It's quite akin to wanting me to counter a point of "Nanny nany boo boo gaga wanga binga"

Nonesense. I'm supposed to counter nonesense?

My argument is the fallacy of the argument "You cannot Prove that God doesn't exist"

If you beleive the argument that we cannot prove God doesn't exist is valid, then prove it.

P.S. You obviously have not been on KMC long enough, else you'd know what the "flying spaghetti monster" and "floating tea cup" was referrencing.

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
My argument is the fallacy of the argument "You cannot Prove that God doesn't exist"

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
If you beleive the argument that we cannot prove God doesn't exist is valid, then prove it.

Shall I again refer you to Electrons, Atoms or Viruses?

Before these were discovered they existed. Before we had any proof or evidence of their existence, they existed.

Or are you going to tell me that they did not exist until we discovered them?

I'm not so foolish however as to fall for your trap of challenging you to prove that he doesn't exist. Cause we both know you can't. And not for anything like you simply don't have evidence. But we both know you can't prove a negative. Which in and of itself is proof that you can't prove he doesn't exist. But just because you can't prove that he doesn't exist, doesn't mean that he does.

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
P.S. You obviously have not been on KMC long enough, else you'd know what the "flying spaghetti monster" and "floating tea cup" was referrencing.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Which isn't a fallacy.

Yes it is, as I have explained above. You can't prove that Zeus doesn't exist either, but that doesn't validate Zeus's existance.

Originally posted by Creshosk
You're ignoring the fact that I pointed out your fallacy.

Shall I again refer you to Electrons, Atoms or Viruses?

Before these were discovered they existed. Before we had any proof or evidence of their existence, they existed.

Or are you going to tell me that they did not exist until we discovered them?

Lack of proof for thier non existance would not have supported the validity of thier existance.

Thier existance is the only thing that validates thier existance, not lack of proof for thier non existance. Do you get it ?

I am not arguing whether or not God exists. I am critisizing the argument "You cannot prove that God doesn't exist". The Burden of proof does not fall upon the non beleiver, only the believer.

Originally posted by Creshosk
I'm not so foolish however as to fall for your trap of challenging you to prove that he doesn't exist. Cause we both know you can't. And not for anything like you simply don't have evidence. But we both know you can't prove a negative. Which in and of itself is proof that you can't prove he doesn't exist. But just because you can't prove that he doesn't exist, doesn't mean that he does.

I am not asking you to prove God exists. You seem to be missing the point entirely.

You can't prove a negative, and you don't have to prove a negative. Those who take the positive postion have the burden of proof upon them, as explained before.

If you have a theory that the Earth is cubical, then it is you who must prove the Earth is cubical. Those who deny such a thoery do not have to prove anything.

Same if you want to argue that the Universe has boundaries. If you have a theory that the Universe has boundaries, then it is your burden to prove it, or atleast support it. Those who deny your theory do not need to disprove yours.

Do you understand ? Or should I explain slower ?

Originally posted by Creshosk
Them being inside jokes doesn't make them any more or less nonsense.

They are not inside jokes. Refer to Xmarksthespot, and Shakymunison for further details.

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
Yes it is, as I have explained above.

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
You can't prove that Zeus doesn't exist either, but that doesn't validate Zeus's existance.

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
Lack of proof for thier non existance would not have supported the validity of thier existance.

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
Thier existance is the only thing that validates thier existance, not lack of proof for thier non existance. Do you get it ?

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
I am not arguing whether or not God exists. I am critisizing the argument "You cannot prove that God doesn't exist". The Burden of proof does not fall upon the non beleiver, only the believer.

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
I am not asking you to prove God exists. You seem to be missing the point entirely.

A theist will say "You cannot prove that God doesn't exist."
The Atheist with then phrase the statement differently and in a more vauge manner "You cannot prove a negative."

The intent of saying it is different, but it doesn't make it any less true. You can't prove that something doesn't exist. You can't prove a negative. and something not existing is a negative.

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
You can't prove a negative, and you don't have to prove a negative. Those who take the positive postion have the burden of proof upon them, as explained before.

If someone hits you, it doesn't leave a mark, there are no witnesses, and you have no evidence of it... does that mean they didn't hit you?

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
If you have a theory that the Earth is cubical, then it is [b]you who must prove the Earth is cubical. Those who deny such a thoery do not have to prove anything.[/b]

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
Same if you want to argue that the Universe has boundaries. If you have a theory that the Universe has boundaries, then it is your burden to prove it, or atleast support it. Those who deny your theory do not need to disprove yours.

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
Do you understand ? Or should I explain slower ?

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
They are not inside jokes. Refer to Xmarksthespot, and Shakymunison for further details.

What you don't understand is that Theists will demand that we provide proof for the non existance of God, which we do not have the prove.

The Burden of Proof is on the person who claims thier beleif or theory to be true.

Like I said before, if you tell me that the Earth is cubical, and I deny what you say, I don't have to prove you wrong. You are the one who has to provide proof, since you made the claim in the first place.

NOW..If I blatantly say God doesn't exist, then I have to provide evidense/support or proof for my claim.

But If I say that I don't beleive in God, because.....then I do not need to provide proof.

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
What you don't understand is that Theists will demand that we provide proof for the non existance of God, which we do not have the prove.

"You cannot prove that God doesn't exist." <-Nothing wrong with this statement.
"Prove that God doesn't exist." <-This is the fallacy.

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
[b]The Burden of Proof is on the person who claims thier beleif or theory to be true. [/b]

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
Like I said before, if you tell me that the Earth is cubical, and I deny what you say, I don't have to prove you wrong. You are the one who has to provide proof, since you made the claim in the first place.

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
[b]NOW..If I blatantly say God doesn't exist, then I have to provide evidense/support or proof for my claim. [/b]

And I don't mean you personally, I mean in a more general sense as there are others who do directly state that "God doesn't exist". and use that tactic.

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
But If I say that I don't beleive in God, because.....then I do not need to provide proof.

I'm not really sure what we're arguing about here. I'm agreeing with most of what you're saying with minor disagreements.

I am agnostic and feel that you can't prove God's existence either way. And without that evidence the only thing you can say is you believe or you have faith. Personally? I don't know what the answer is. I'm not entirely happy with the Atheist side when I ask them specific questions because they usually become about as reasonable as a theist. and eventually start saying "It just is." ...

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
I simply tire of the counter argument [b]"You can't PROVE that God DOESN'T EXIST" as a response to the statement that God's existance cannot be proven.

You can't prove Zeus doesn't exist either.

You can't prove Santa Clause doesn't exist either.

You can't prove the Tooth Fairy doesn't exist either.

You can't prove the flying spaghetti monster doesn't exist either.

You can't prove the floating teacup in outer space doesn't exist either.

All you have to go by is Logic, History, and Science. Please realize the fallacy of the argument "You cannot Prove God doesn't exist".

All of you Christians, Jews, Muslims, and other Theists deny the existance of other myths and possibilities, but will defend your own to the death, even though you know you cannot prove your beleif true.

Your arguments will earn respect when you clarify your beleif as beleif, but once you claim your beleif as truth that is when the Burden of Proof falls upon you.

Understand ? [/B]

First fallacy with your argument is, that for one, we all have more or less an agreed idea/definition of father Christmas and tooth fairy.
Second - those ideas have developed through ages. When they begun, they meant something complitely different - Father Chrismas is St Nicholas, and what the fairies are is not agreed upon, considering that they vary from originally being referred to as ghosts, sometimes angels, sometimes fallen angels and in different folklores as devils.

I hope this alone illustrates with the problem here.

We do not have an agreed definition of God. What it is or where it is.
You can make up your own definitions - more power to you - that however does not bring us any closer to understanding God.

Second, proof CANNOT and I repeat CANNOT be generated in reference to God BECAUSE God does NOT produce EMPIRICAL data which can be CALCULATED or EVALUATED in order to produce PROOF.

GOD is a philosophical question. It is not scientific. Repeat, NOT scientific.

Originally posted by Creshosk
I am agnostic and feel that you can't prove God's existence either way. And without that evidence the only thing you can say is you believe or you have faith. Personally? I don't know what the answer is. I'm not entirely happy with the Atheist side when I ask them specific questions because they usually become about as reasonable as a theist. and eventually start saying "It just is." ...