Originally posted by EnzeruRight, so we assume Sentry's mindset can't change because of collateral damage in previous fights? Great basis there ace.
You have to be trolling, man. If not, then know that I honestly feel sorry for you.1. Sentry simply had to intervene, because Tony Stark was seconds away from killing Reed Richards.
2.1 Just because he entered the fight, doesn't mean that all of his strength and power returned - especially since in fact they HAVEN'T.
2.2 I swear, some of you jerks are behaving like this: "Oh well yeah ... let's ignore Sentry's feats, where he was stable minded and dished out planetary level destruction and base his maximum only by the WW Hulk event, where it was obvious that he had mental problems."You [b]IGNORE
(and that's something I really don't get - it's so pathetic, ridiculous and annoying) ... YOU IGNORE THE FACT, that the WW Hulk arc version of the Sentry did not perform at his best ... like AT ALL - and you still choose to go with that version of him as his ultimate, because he said that he was giving his all.Yes, retard: He was giving his all, but it doesn't change the god damn fact that the energy he had under his disposal at that point was lower than he had in the past:
Planetary level energy from his fight with Photon >>>>>>>>>>>> City level energy from his fight with WW Hulk.I'm sorry, -Pr-, you said to keep things civil in here, but the sheer stupidity, ignorance and most likely bias of some people here drives me crazy. [/B]
Fact is he was going all out. His mindset changed, and based on your logic Thor was holding back everytime he's fought Sentry due to minimal collateral damage.
But I bet that logic changes in a heartbeat won't it?
Edit: I find it funny how you choose to insult someone over a completely innocuous post while taking into consideration mods.
Looks like Sentry took form as a poster here
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Right, so we assume Sentry's mindset can't change
Sentry's mind set can change and it changed here and there. His overall powerlevel is depended on the current mind state he is in. When stable he is a beast, when unstable he is much easier to defeat:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/101942/3189038-1234124.jpg
We had the bio stating that and then we also had Tony Stark talking to Sentry about his bad days and that if he feels weak that he can simply leave:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/101942/3189060-2.jpg
It's litereally the same as with Gladiator's confidence, whose overall powerlevel sinks, if his confidence sinks. He becomes weaker, less durable and is able to dish out less damage.
And yes, colletaral damage is a display of someones damage output. Thor never really came up with an insane striking feat, which fans paid attention at, but when he fought Thor and shattered Gorr we all started acknowledging that he can shatter planets with his attacks, when he is going all out.
When it comes to the Sentry we had the narration stating that his power was enough to shred planets and that he was still holding back at that point.
Sentry's weakness is his own fragile mind and since that one wasn't mentioned, we can assume that he was at his best for that fight and at his best he has above planetary level energy output.
When he fought the Hulk we saw him having extreme mental issues and only entering the battle when he absolutely had no different choice whatsoever. And the damage he started dishing out was reduced. He was giving his all, but at that point it was not depended on him how much damage output he can produce, but up to his mind, which was limiting him at that point.
FFS at his best Sentry beat the living crap out of the Void in a physical fight, something no one ever managed to do. Thor was striking Void with all of the power under his command and the Void barely flinched:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11/116291/2179215-2.jpg
But yeah son, keep on lowballing, keep on lowballing. When it comes to these "debates" I don't give a damn about all of your opinion anymore. I'm doing it to provide information for everyone, who types in "Hulk VS Sentry" and stumbles into this thread.
They have to decide for them what actually happened and I provide as much unbiased information as I can regarding these topics. I am great. And handsome, but that doesn't matter right now.
Originally posted by EnzeruI agree, his mind can change, and I agree with you completely that his mind changed in WWH.
Sentry's mind set can change and it changed here and there. His overall powerlevel is depended on the current mind state he is in. When stable he is a beast, when unstable he is much easier to defeat:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/101942/3189038-1234124.jpgWe had the bio stating that and then we also had Tony Stark talking to Sentry about his bad days and that if he feels weak that he can simply leave:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/101942/3189060-2.jpgIt's litereally the same as with Gladiator's confidence, whose overall powerlevel sinks, if his confidence sinks. He becomes weaker, less durable and is able to dish out less damage.
He went from being a scared enzeru wrist slitting baby caring about innocents and damage, to being confident in how much he could go out, and not caring about anybody. That right there proves his previous mindset was irrelevant, and thus a faulty crybaby point because for whatever reason fighting equally with a severely powered up Hulk is seen as a low showing.
Because of collateral damage, and not because he was fighting evenly with a really powerful Hulk. Or is it both? Hard to tell with all the tears flowing on the side of Sentry.
Originally posted by EnzeruIt's a display of scope, not purely of power. His attacks don't suddenly do more power against a Genis who pretty much got killed by Atlas just because his scope increased.
And yes, colletaral damage is a display of someones damage output. Thor never really came up with an insane striking feat, which fans paid attention at, but when he fought Thor and shattered Gorr we all started acknowledging that he can shatter planets with his attacks, when he is going all out.When it comes to the Sentry we had the narration stating that his power was enough to shred planets and that he was still holding back at that point.
Sentry's weakness is his own fragile mind and since that one wasn't mentioned, we can assume that he was at his best for that fight and at his best he has above planetary level energy output.When he fought the Hulk we saw him having extreme mental issues and only entering the battle when he absolutely had no different choice whatsoever. And the damage he started dishing out was reduced. He was giving his all, but at that point it was not depended on him how much damage output he can produce, but up to his mind, which was limiting him at that point.
And the Thor feat was fun because for so long detractors used a lack of feats as evidence of something. Ignoring him having some of the highest striking feats in comics period.
And about the Genis fight... you ever notice how power enough to split planets only destroys a mesa while Captain America is on the planet they're hovering like 50 feet above? They spit out enough power to destroy worlds, but not the world they're on, and not enough to even touch Cap.
Which should totally override the Hulk fight because Sentry should have destroyed the planet based on one snippet of narration years ago from a completely different writer.
And who knows, maybe Sentry would have destroyed the world had it not been ****ing EARTH had it been directed at the planet, but just because he didn't destroy a planet in either scene, that doesn't mean he was operating at lesser levels. I'd argue causing a hefty amount of damage to Hulk is above planetary levels anyway.
He had no mental issues against Hulk. Keep dreaming sport. And he damaged Hulk, what he did to a less durable rock is irrelevant. At that level everyone can destroy a planet. Not everyone can cause immense damage to Hulk.
Hell, Nova the herald destroyed a sun... which is above any sort of collateral damage I think any herald has done. Does that mean every fight she's in is actually her holding back and she should be seen as the most powerfulest ever?
Originally posted by EnzeruThat is irrelevant considering by your logic Thor was holding back against Void everytime.
FFS at his best Sentry beat the living crap out of the Void in a physical fight, something no one ever managed to do. Thor was striking Void with all of the power under his command and the Void barely flinched:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11/116291/2179215-2.jpg
You can't go from destroying planets to not causing any damage to the surrounding area and be going all out afterall? Or did your logic already flip as soon as it was turned around against Bobert? It seems I called that with expert non biased precision.
It seems you want to use Sentry's best "feat" to determine his powers levels which is based purely off of collateral damage, but you don't want to apply that across the board. Let me know what logic you subscribe to boy and I'll be fine with either.
Originally posted by EnzeruHow in the hair over the eyes haven do you figure I'm lowballing? Because I don't agree Sentry was in a weak mental state based on your non proof? That I don't agree that collateral damage is an accurate judge of power? Because I disagree with you is basically a reason that I'm lowballing? Is that how your "Nobody knows pain but me and my jean chains" mind works?
But yeah son, keep on lowballing, keep on lowballing. When it comes to these "debates" I don't give a damn about all of your opinion anymore.
I'm not lowballing Sentry kiddo. I'm just saying that I don't agree with your skewed perception (probably from the hair covering your eyes) of the events that took place.
Also, of course you care about people's opinions. You've been actively posting for like 4 months and have a hefty list of people on ignore already. How you can see the posts through the tears is beyond me, but that's neither here nor there.
Farther backed up by you slinging insult after insult against me just for posting my opinion (which didn't attack anyone in the slightest). You don't care anymore? Keep telling yourself that while you swallow 4 Tylenol in an attempt to get rid of all the problems in the world. That will surely get rid of all the hurt on your soul.
Originally posted by Enzeru
I'm doing it to provide information for everyone, who types in "Hulk VS Sentry" and stumbles into this thread.
They have to decide for them what actually happened and I provide as much unbiased information as I can regarding these topics. I am great. And handsome, but that doesn't matter right now.
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
I agree, his mind can change, and I agree with you completely that his mind changed in WWH.He went from being a scared enzeru wrist slitting baby caring about innocents and damage, to being confident in how much he could go out, and not caring about anybody. That right there proves his previous mindset was irrelevant, and thus a faulty crybaby point because for whatever reason fighting equally with a severely powered up Hulk is seen as a low showing.
Because of collateral damage, and not because he was fighting evenly with a really powerful Hulk. Or is it both? Hard to tell with all the tears flowing on the side of Sentry.
It's a display of scope, not purely of power. His attacks don't suddenly do more power against a Genis who pretty much got killed by Atlas just because his scope increased.
It's a fun feat, yes, and I'd argue all the power to them in a fight where scope matters, but against Hulk? Especially a goddamned planet. I could see if they started destroying suns and shit, but a planet? Meh.And the Thor feat was fun because for so long detractors used a lack of feats as evidence of something. Ignoring him having some of the highest striking feats in comics period.
And about the Genis fight... you ever notice how power enough to split planets only destroys a mesa while Captain America is on the planet they're hovering like 50 feet above? They spit out enough power to destroy worlds, but not the world they're on, and not enough to even touch Cap.
Which should totally override the Hulk fight because Sentry should have destroyed the planet based on one snippet of narration years ago from a completely different writer.And who knows, maybe Sentry would have destroyed the world had it not been ****ing EARTH had it been directed at the planet, but just because he didn't destroy a planet in either scene, that doesn't mean he was operating at lesser levels. I'd argue causing a hefty amount of damage to Hulk is above planetary levels anyway.
He had no mental issues against Hulk. Keep dreaming sport. And he damaged Hulk, what he did to a less durable rock is irrelevant. At that level everyone can destroy a planet. Not everyone can cause immense damage to Hulk.
Hell, Nova the herald destroyed a sun... which is above any sort of collateral damage I think any herald has done. Does that mean every fight she's in is actually her holding back and she should be seen as the most powerfulest ever?That is irrelevant considering by your logic Thor was holding back against Void everytime.
You can't go from destroying planets to not causing any damage to the surrounding area and be going all out afterall? Or did your logic already flip as soon as it was turned around against Bobert? It seems I called that with expert non biased precision.
It seems you want to use Sentry's best "feat" to determine his powers levels which is based purely off of collateral damage, but you don't want to apply that across the board. Let me know what logic you subscribe to boy and I'll be fine with either.
How in the hair over the eyes haven do you figure I'm lowballing? Because I don't agree Sentry was in a weak mental state based on your non proof? That I don't agree that collateral damage is an accurate judge of power? Because I disagree with you is basically a reason that I'm lowballing? Is that how your "Nobody knows pain but me and my jean chains" mind works?
I'm not lowballing Sentry kiddo. I'm just saying that I don't agree with your skewed perception (probably from the hair covering your eyes) of the events that took place.
Also, of course you care about people's opinions. You've been actively posting for like 4 months and have a hefty list of people on ignore already. How you can see the posts through the tears is beyond me, but that's neither here nor there.
Farther backed up by you slinging insult after insult against me just for posting my opinion (which didn't attack anyone in the slightest). You don't care anymore? Keep telling yourself that while you swallow 4 Tylenol in an attempt to get rid of all the problems in the world. That will surely get rid of all the hurt on your soul.
👆 this post is on point.
I'm back...And I'm going to finally end this ridiculous nonsensical claim about the Hulk beating the shit out of Sentry during the World War Hulk story arc.
Originally posted by abhilegend
So why did Sentry revert to Bob if not for getting the shit kicked out of him?
Again no...Sentry did not get the shit kicked out of him and neither did HHulk. The Sentry reverted back to Bob because he wanted to LOSE and I explain that as I go on. I don't know what comic you were reading or you just decided what to read and what not to read, but your claim has no strong evidence to it and by that I can tell you didn't even fully read the comic.
But FIRST lets get to the root of the point. World War Hulk fought a very WEAK repeat WEAK Sentry. As we all know...The Sentry's powers are all based on his mental state.
Straight from Marvel Handbook 2006:
"When stable he has potential for limitless power....... however if his mental states waves he becomes weaker and easier to defeat."
Then we have Emma Frost who states that his psychic powers hold together his physical powers.
So what happens when his mental state is unstable? Thats a conclusion you should already know...But if that's not enough for you we can dig even deeper.
Yes indeed Sentry wasn't holding back and was going at his fullest, we all agree on that and know that. But what people seem to not get is that going at fullest=/=being at strongest, because again World War Hulk fought a mentally unstable Sentry, thus a weaker Sentry. As proof since he couldn't even control his powers and almost all of Manhattan was getting burned!!!
But anyways here is an example of a mentally stableSentry fighting Photon.
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11/116291/2179258-3.jpg
Both are releasing energies that are destroying planets, yet both are holding back...And it is even said that the Sentry can collect energy from almost anywhere. Which I believe is where the term "power of a million exploding suns" comes from.
But back to the World War Hulk story arc. Again we not only have proof that the Sentry was not only mentally, but superior to the Hulk.
Bob: "The last time I saw the Hulk, he was fighting the Void. And the Void broke every bone in his body. And then... then I found out I was the Void"
Not only are we shown that Sentry is more superior to Hulk, but also that Bob is NOT scared of the Hulk but what he can do to the Hulk. Why because he is afraid of his own powers. Why? Because he has schizophrenic, which IIRC causes extreme anxiety. And Reed even mentions it in his fight with World War Hulk. So again we have PROOF repeat PROOF that the Sentry was mentally unstable during the fight.
Not only that but he stayed struck on a door for 29 hours. Obviously that indicates an internal struggle. If you think thats Sentry at his strongest, then give me a break...
Again reading the WHOLE comic helps. But we're going to dig even deeper and into the fight itself.
When the Sentry starts to attack the Hulk he clearly in the drivers seat. But then we see him starting to lose control. Flames start going everywhere and it even burns Hulk that his warbounds jump in to help him. Again the Sentry loosing control INDICATES that he was NOT mentally stable and was not at his strongest. Again him going all out=/=him at his strongest. Again him going all out=/=him at his strongest. Not only that, but the Sentry lets Hulk hit him while he speaks and says "good".
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/102593/3261745-0+%289%29.jpg
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http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/102593/3261755-0+%2819%29.jpg
Again we see the Sentry losing control. Flames are everywhere and I mean everywhere! The Sentry could have killed everyone with it, which is why he had to be stopped. Do you think the Sentry intentionally wanted to do that? No. Which is why he WANTED TO LOSE.
At the middle of the fight Sentry himself realizes he cant stop and the conversation seem to imply Sentry wanted Hulk to calm him down.
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/10/102593/3261767-0+%2823%29.jpg
When Hulk finally KOs Sentry, the first thing Sentry says is "Bruce... Thank you"
If you wanna say that Hulk(Bruce really) beat Sentry fine, but to say Hulk bested him, ignore that Sentry wanted to lose, ignore that Sentry was mentally unstable thus weak and ignore that he was loosing control then your argument is flawed.
But if all the above is still not enough for you. Then here's this from the WRITERS OF THE STORY OWN WORDS!:
"Robert was on the verge of going too far, of expending so much energy that he could destroy everything and everyone around them."
"So when it comes to the very end, Robert thanks Bruce for pulling him back from the PRECIPICE."
So there you have it folks from the writers own words. This isn't specualtion anymore its REALITY. The Sentry was like the 'bad guy' towards the end of the fight. He could have KILLED everyone.
This is what an unstable Sentry losing control of his powers did... days after the fight with Hulk and the city was still burning, that's what casually unleashing Sentry power did.
Again you have to READ EVERY PART OF THE COMIC. Not only the parts you chose and ignore. Sentry/Void has a winning record against the Hulk of three wins basically. Hulk at best only stalemated against the Sentry and the Sentry wanted to lose in the first place(writers own words) and it was a much weaker Sentry.
Originally posted by abhilegend
No need to. I can see how one gets the shit kicked out of him.http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Fights%20N-S/HulkvsSentry16.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Fights%20N-S/HulkvsSentry17.jpgHere's how they look.
Sorry but just posting scans out of context and not reading the whole story isn't going to save your argument.
Read the above please.
Originally posted by Enzeru
Top notch summary, Stranglehold300.
Everyone, who has a serious interest in the topic will appreciate it.
Thanks.
And like I said the Sentry wanted to lose that fight. Not only that he was in a poor mental state. Sentry going all out=/=him at his best. Thats like saying Mike Tyson(retired boxer) going all out against Floyd Mayweather in a boxing match means Mike Tyson is still in his prime.
If people wanna say Hulk won that fight then fine, but the evidence is there.
Also I have some question for you involving Paul Jenkins. PM or the who can beat Death Sentry thread. Your choice.
Absolutely no proof that Sentry "wanted to lose", you're speculating upon speculation, trying to bury the simple, brute fact that Sentry unleashed and was saying he was losing control against Hulk, while Hulk was holding back and trying to reason with him.
Hulk never struck first or very hard (given how softy Sentry is) and always tried to talk Sentry down. So if anybody was showing less of their ability and power in that fight, it was Hulk.
We even see, moments later, a little flash of the kind of power Hulk could have applied if he wanted to actually hurt Sentry.
Originally posted by janus77
Absolutely no proof that Sentry "wanted to lose", you're speculating upon speculation, trying to bury the simple, brute fact that Sentry unleashed and was saying he was losing control against Hulk, while Hulk was holding back and trying to reason with him.
I think I'll take the writers words. 🙂
Originally posted by janus77
Hulk never struck first or very hard (given how softy Sentry is) and always tried to talk Sentry down. So if anybody was showing less of their ability and power in that fight, it was Hulk.
Originally posted by janus77
We even see, moments later, a little flash of the kind of power Hulk could have applied if he wanted to actually hurt Sentry. [/B]
And we seen the power that Sentry all ready which almost killed everyone if not for Sentry letting Hulk calm him down and that was a extremely unstable Sentry thus a weak Sentry. And please you wanna talk about potential. Don't even get me started on the potential of the Sentry.
Hulk at his fullest potential(with help of Red She Hulk) destroyed a planet in the dark dimension? I take that and raise you Sentry and Photon holding back and still destroying planets. Seriously the Sentry has so many was to kill Hulk that its not even funny.
Mind-rape(already did to Hulk)
Molecule Manipulation
He can drain Hulks gamma radiation from him like he already did
Energy projection
Speed(which WWH couldn't even react to)
Immorality
The list goes on. A full potential stable minded Sentry would wreck World War Hulk or any other versions of Hulk. We've seen Hulks true potential, we haven't seen Sentry's.
I really don't think that it can be argued that either man was at his best during this fight. Sentry made it pretty clear that he wanted Hulk to hurt him, and even though he fought back, I don't see how it doesn't count.
Then there's the rising power of the Hulk that we know was being restrained to an extent.
Pretending either man was operating at anything close to full capacity is silly, imo.
Originally posted by -Pr-
I really don't think that it can be argued that either man was at his best during this fight. Sentry made it pretty clear that he wanted Hulk to hurt him, and even though he fought back, I don't see how it doesn't count.Then there's the rising power of the Hulk that we know was being restrained to an extent.
Pretending either man was operating at anything close to full capacity is silly, imo.
Now this is a logical conclusion IMO.
Again you can say Hulk won the fight but to ignore that he wanted to lose and that he was a danger to everyone is not only ignoring what was in the comic but also going against what the writer had in mind.
