What do you mean? His force powers were good enough to keep all of Luke's students in check. His force powers were above and beyond everyone at his time. Some of his techniques had no defenses for them. Him being superior to Mace in the force is not a debate, it's a fact. If you want something to argue, argue saber combat, if it will even come to that.
His force powers were good enough to keep all of Luke's students in check
I hope you didn't forget that kun was using not only his power as also kyp's one, 1 jedi said to be very close to the "grandson" of the force, Luke Skywalker himself in pure force power...
His force powers were above and beyond everyone at his time
Show me proof saying that the other force users of his time were as strong as guys like windu or yoda
Some of his techniques had no defenses for them.
Yeah, like what?
Him being superior to Mace in the force is not a debate, it's a fact.
Why, was it stated?
If you want something to argue, argue saber combat, if it will even come to that.
So, kun also beats mace windu in saber combat, the ultimate master of the deadliest lightsaber style, the man who beat the greatest sith lord ever, one of the greatest lightsaber duelists in history and surely one in the top 3 from the PT times, the time from the greatest duelists, stated by Lucas himself?
Originally posted by kamhal
I hope you didn't forget that kun was using not only his power as also kyp's one, 1 jedi said to be very close to the "grandson" of the force, Luke Skywalker himself in pure force power...
Show me proof saying that the other force users of his time were as strong as guys like windu or yoda
So, kun also beats mace windu in saber combat, the ultimate master of the deadliest lightsaber style, the man who beat the greatest sith lord ever, one of the greatest lightsaber duelists in history and surely one in the top 3 from the PT times, the time from the greatest duelists, stated by Lucas himself? [/B]
I'm not going to argue the parameters of a Force contest between Mace Windu and Exar Kun, as Windu was able to, when immersed in the dark depths of Vaapad, to fend off against a storm of Force lightning wielded by "the greatest master of evil ever to use Sith power" (confirmed in the Complete Visual Dictionary). However, I will also say that, like Sidious, Exar seems to outmatch Mace in the Force and that Sidious's lightning was repulsed only when Mace was immersed in Vaapad -- which according to the novelization, takes a bit of time. Should Kun pull off an amulet blast or whatnot before such an event, I could see him defeating Mace with the Force.
However, I'd wager that it's nigh-impossible for a dark sider to defeat Mace Windu in a prolonged lightsaber duel -- quite possibly DE Sidious himself. Now, my justification for such is the novelization's canon confirmation on the nature of Vaapad and shatterpoint. The fact that he forced Count Dooku to flee from him on Boz Pity (even after the Sith Lord instructed his minions to "leave the Jedi to him!"😉 and then defeated Dooku's even more powerful master, Sidious, in a lightsaber duel (though granted, Sidious had not touched a lightsaber for 13 years prior to that duel) gives me reason to think so. That Vaapad and Shatterpoint apply in all cases -- unless the opponent's form and character is absolutely flawless (is Kun perfect?).
Kun, like the Force, would have to be quick about executing a victory. Otherwise, I'd say Mace's Vaapad eventually nullifies any saber-oriented advantages the Dark Lord may have -- and eventually beheads him in a most brutal fashion.
Originally posted by BlaxicanHydra
Well then would Kun rush him with the force or would his sith arrogance blind him to the point of challening mace to saber combat?
Dunno. I believe that we'll have to just debate this on what each character is capable of rather than "what we think" they can do. At the same time, you'd think Sidious, who is head and shoulders above Kun in the brains department, wouldn't have done something so stupid.
Do you think so? I suppose it's rather possible -- and likely the exact reason behind his defeat.
But personally, I rather doubt it. Throughout the prequel trilogy and the events surrounding it, Darth Sidious does not exhibit anything near the level of hubris that he depicts in the original trilogy. Though he's not averse to using himself as bait or putting his own life on the line for one of his schemes, for the most part, he seems rather rational and calculating; most of his 'defeats' -- few they were -- were based on the ineptitude or arrogance of his underlings rather than he himself. Consider that even after rending Yoda unconscious, Palpatine reconsiders dueling Yoda, a moment he supposedly had "waited a long time for", based on his assessment of Yoda's power.
So, personally, I come to one of two conclusions:
a.) Palpatine orchestrated and staged the events of his duel with Mace Windu and the Jedi companions.
b.) Palpatine was simply unable to overpower Mace Windu with a lightsaber in a prolonged duel due to the nature of Vaapad and shatterpoint detection.
'A' is possible in that the Dark Lord is certainly capable of such a feat, since the man managed to worm his way into effective domination of the galaxy -- orchestrating a war and multiple crises for over a decade without Masters Yoda and Windu being any the wiser. Essentially, he is clever enough to pull it off. However, there is no canon evidence supporting it. Ergo, I conclude that 'B' is the correct option.
Whether Palpatine could have overpowered Mace at all at that point is purely speculative. However, your point might have some merit, as Palpatine -- despite being unarmed and in an inferior position -- was able to nearly kill Mace with Force lightning through sheer force, as he was the one who was bearing the brunt of the lightning's weakness. Lucas himself said that when Sidious ended the futile assault, he wasn't weakened by it. Whereas I can't say the same for Mace.
Then again, Palpatine and Kun are two different animals. And according to Lightsnake, Exar Kun is extremely arrogant himself.
Originally posted by Gideon
Do you think so? I suppose it's rather possible -- and likely the exact reason behind his defeat.But personally, I rather doubt it. Throughout the prequel trilogy and the events surrounding it, Darth Sidious does not exhibit anything near the level of hubris that he depicts in the original trilogy. Though he's not averse to using himself as bait or putting his own life on the line for one of his schemes, for the most part, he seems rather rational and calculating; most of his 'defeats' -- few they were -- were based on the ineptitude or arrogance of his underlings rather than he himself. Consider that even after rending Yoda unconscious, Palpatine reconsiders dueling Yoda, a moment he supposedly had "waited a long time for", based on his assessment of Yoda's power.
So, personally, I come to one of two conclusions:a.) Palpatine orchestrated and staged the events of his duel with Mace Windu and the Jedi companions.
b.) Palpatine was simply unable to overpower Mace Windu with a lightsaber in a prolonged duel due to the nature of Vaapad and shatterpoint detection.
'
A' is possible in that the Dark Lord is certainly capable of such a feat, since the man managed to worm his way into effective domination of the galaxy -- orchestrating a war and multiple crises for over a decade without Masters Yoda and Windu being any the wiser. Essentially, he is clever enough to pull it off. However, there is no canon evidence supporting it. Ergo, I conclude that 'B' is the correct option.
Whether Palpatine could have overpowered Mace at all at that point is purely speculative. However, your point might have some merit, as Palpatine -- despite being unarmed and in an inferior position -- was able to nearly kill Mace with Force lightning through sheer force, as he was the one who was bearing the brunt of the lightning's weakness. Lucas himself said that when Sidious ended the futile assault, he wasn't weakened by it. Whereas I can't say the same for Mace.
Then again, Palpatine and Kun are two different animals. And according to Lightsnake, Exar Kun is extremely arrogant himself.
Is that why he told Ulic NOT to attack the republic? His arrogance is warranted because he is miles and miles ahead of everyone in his time.