I'd have to say, Mace's training and expertise makes him a good candidate to end Kun a la saber duel. In particular, his saber mastery of Vaapad implies that he mastered other forms (which is a prerequisite for the form itself) and it's a very dangerous form overall. His Shatterpoint ability, while not exactly unique (Mace notes that many powerful jedi have the ability; his is simply more intuitive and requires less concentration) is still a definate plus. Kun's good. The best Vodo's ever trained and he did beat his master twice in a saber duel, the second time requiring little effort whatsoever. And Ulic who is himself a considerable saber prodigy was unable to best Kun, yet even this is considerably little next to Mace's more visible, extended record.
I don't see Mace curbstomping Kun, but I do see him possibly beating him if the duel goes on long enough.
As for Force...
Mace Windu is no Force-slouch. He could manipulate a landslide in Shatterpoint as well as maintain Force-bonds, sense the location of his own lightsaber while being clouded by the darkside (While Vastor had it), and could dominate mulitple akk-dogs who were already bonded with other Force users with literally no effort. He is a Jedi Master and one not to be taken lightly.
Mace Windu concedes that he is not on the same level as Yoda, and Yoda's own considerations as noted in Dark Rendezvous note that Dooku himself was likely higher in Force mastery (Which is understandable, considering how young Mace is compared to both of them).
However, Exar Kun is likely on a whole different level. Whether it's sheer power and will or his tapping into the secrets of the ancients, Kun is more than a match for Odan-Urr. As you can see in the below scan, he sneaks up on the Jedi loremaster, yanks the holocron out of his grip, and then resists the Force-stripping attack that Nomi later used to strip Ulic.
He then kills Odan-urr with as much effort as it takes for me to type "WTF". Granted, Odan-Urr notes he is "old", but he is certainly not helpless. And no Jedi Master becomes weaker in the Force as he ages; if anything, it seems the reverse. The very fact that Exar Kun shrugged off a Force-blocking attack Odan-urr notes was used on Sith lords in Naga Sadow's time speaks measures for his power. His amulet of pwnage simply puts the icing on the cake.
In a Force duel, Kun pretty much walks all over Mace.
Since any real battle would include both saber and Force usage available, it's likely that Kun would simply overpower Mace with his array of abilities, and then destroy him outright.
Originally posted by Janus Marius
I'd have to say, Mace's training and expertise makes him a good candidate to end Kun a la saber duel. In particular, his saber mastery of Vaapad implies that he mastered other forms (which is a prerequisite for the form itself) and it's a very dangerous form overall. His Shatterpoint ability, while not exactly unique (Mace notes that many powerful jedi have the ability; his is simply more intuitive and requires less concentration) is still a definate plus. Kun's good. The best Vodo's ever trained and he did beat his master twice in a saber duel, the second time requiring little effort whatsoever. And Ulic who is himself a considerable saber prodigy was unable to best Kun, yet even this is considerably little next to Mace's more visible, extended record.
As for Force...Mace Windu is no Force-slouch. He could manipulate a landslide in Shatterpoint as well as maintain Force-bonds, sense the location of his own lightsaber while being clouded by the darkside (While Vastor had it), and could dominate mulitple akk-dogs who were already bonded with other Force users with literally no effort. He is a Jedi Master and one not to be taken lightly.
Mace Windu concedes that he is not on the same level as Yoda, and Yoda's own considerations as noted in Dark Rendezvous note that Dooku himself was likely higher in Force mastery (Which is understandable, considering how young Mace is compared to both of them).
However, Exar Kun is likely on a whole different level. Whether it's sheer power and will or his tapping into the secrets of the ancients, Kun is more than a match for Odan-Urr. As you can see in the below scan, he sneaks up on the Jedi loremaster, yanks the holocron out of his grip, and then resists the Force-stripping attack that Nomi later used to strip Ulic.
He then kills Odan-urr with as much effort as it takes for me to type "WTF". Granted, Odan-Urr notes he is "old", but he is certainly not helpless. And no Jedi Master becomes weaker in the Force as he ages; if anything, it seems the reverse.
The very fact that Exar Kun shrugged off a Force-blocking attack Odan-urr notes was used on Sith lords in Naga Sadow's time speaks measures for his power. His amulet of pwnage simply puts the icing on the cake.
If that, along with killing a Jedi Master with so little showings whatsoever are Kun's only credentials, the case for him with the force isn't so strong.
In a Force duel, Kun pretty much walks all over Mace.Since any real battle would include both saber and Force usage available, it's likely that Kun would simply overpower Mace with his array of abilities, and then destroy him outright.
Erm, just a note here: Kun was also unable to best Ulic.
Correct. In fact, the narration refers to both as "Master swordsmen". A nod at Kun's saber prowess at this time.
Granted. But then, where's the proof that Odan is anywhere close to people like Yoda or Mace, both of whom have displayed quite a bit more ability?
Displayed more? Or been given more airtime? Obviously, Mace and Yoda have tons of more material referencing their abilities. Granted, I don't have pictures of Odan-Urr force-slapping Sith lords left and right, but his Force knowledge should be considerable, seeing as he founded the library of Ossus, including the Sith holocron found and Jedi information stored therein. I mean, if you want me to compare his limited screentime to Yoda and Mace's movie appearances and novel/comic book/video game appearances, well, I guess he loses at everything.
His age is at this point is what? 600+ years? He's the eldest master we see on-campus, and he shows Nomi how to effectively block a user from the Force, something he describes as terrible yet sometimes neccessary. He points out that he developed this in the waning days of the Hyperspace Wars, fighting the renegade Sith as he embarked on his journey to scour knowledge from the invaders. This technique is effective enough to put Ulic on his ass, and it worked on previous Sith.
Even if I were to claim that Odan-Urr was a substandard Jedi master with no Force powers and no way of capably handling himself in combat (Which would be absolutely ridiculous), his ability to turn off the Force-switch on people makes him a dangerous opponent in itself. I mean really- we don't see him taking a crap either.... Should I assume he's incapable?
For starters, the amulet is never once used on any single individual who would be capable of fighting Exar like Mace. Not only have its abilities been exaggerated to hell and back, but the opening beams are more than within Mace's capacity to dodge them.
Actually, the amulet's ability to focus and multiply hate and the darkside is noted in the narration, and Aleema and Ulic could not defend against Kun's amulet attack, which he apparently learned to control after the slaying of the Sadow-created wyrm. Narration by the amulet's creator says that the amulet only becomes more powerful, and that even Kun was having difficulty to control the power.
Ulic, with the amulet's mate, and Aleema were less effective. Kun floored Aleema and Ulic was manually apprehended by a bunch of his jedi friends while wielding it.
Since the blasts are very large and Kun, even untrained with the weapon, can use it and his own Force-fueled agility to manhandle the wyrm while still pelting away... it stands to reason that it's an effective weapon. Certainly one that Mace has never seen before. I'm not saying Mace is a slowpoke, but he can only dodge so many of these blasts before something gets to him. And if Mace can't close the distance because Kun is raining hell on him, I don't see him winning in a saber match.
In any duel he was in, Kun tends to disdain use of the Force and go for a saber battle.
Mace has just as much a chance of beating Kun here.
It seems that Kun only challenges those to saber duels when he has an ego-boost to gain from the victory (Vodo, the Ulic "the pretender"😉. Others he just tossed around like garbage (Sylvar, Odan-Urr, Aleema, etc.). He certainly didn't dally around with Freedon Nadd's spirit either.
Originally posted by Janus Marius
Displayed more? Or been given more airtime? Obviously, Mace and Yoda have tons of more material referencing their abilities. Granted, I don't have pictures of Odan-Urr force-slapping Sith lords left and right, but his Force knowledge should be considerable, seeing as he founded the library of Ossus, including the Sith holocron found and Jedi information stored therein. I mean, if you want me to compare his limited screentime to Yoda and Mace's movie appearances and novel/comic book/video game appearances, well, I guess he loses at everything.
His age is at this point is what? 600+ years? He's the eldest master we see on-campus, and he shows Nomi how to effectively block a user from the Force, something he describes as terrible yet sometimes neccessary. He points out that he developed this in the waning days of the Hyperspace Wars, fighting the renegade Sith as he embarked on his journey to scour knowledge from the invaders. This technique is effective enough to put Ulic on his ass, and it worked on previous Sith.
Even if I were to claim that Odan-Urr was a substandard Jedi master with no Force powers and no way of capably handling himself in combat (Which would be absolutely ridiculous), his ability to turn off the Force-switch on people makes him a dangerous opponent in itself. I mean really- we don't see him taking a crap either.... Should I assume he's incapable?
Actually, the amulet's ability to focus and multiply hate and the darkside is noted in the narration, and Aleema and Ulic could not defend against Kun's amulet attack, which he apparently learned to control after the slaying of the Sadow-created wyrm. Narration by the amulet's creator says that the amulet only becomes more powerful, and that even Kun was having difficulty to control the power.
Since the blasts are very large and Kun, even untrained with the weapon, can use it and his own Force-fueled agility to manhandle the wyrm while still pelting away... it stands to reason that it's an effective weapon. Certainly one that Mace has never seen before. I'm not saying Mace is a slowpoke, but he can only dodge so many of these blasts before something gets to him. And if Mace can't close the distance because Kun is raining hell on him, I don't see him winning in a saber match.
It seems that Kun only challenges those to saber duels when he has an ego-boost to gain from the victory (Vodo, the Ulic "the pretender"😉. Others he just tossed around like garbage (Sylvar, Odan-Urr, Aleema, etc.). He certainly didn't dally around with Freedon Nadd's spirit either. [/B]
Originally posted by Janus Marius
Correct. In fact, the narration refers to both as "Master swordsmen". A nod at Kun's saber prowess at this time.
Displayed more? Or been given more airtime? Obviously, Mace and Yoda have tons of more material referencing their abilities. Granted, I don't have pictures of Odan-Urr force-slapping Sith lords left and right, but his Force knowledge should be considerable, seeing as he founded the library of Ossus, including the Sith holocron found and Jedi information stored therein.
I mean, if you want me to compare his limited screentime to Yoda and Mace's movie appearances and novel/comic book/video game appearances, well, I guess he loses at everything.
His age is at this point is what? 600+ years? He's the eldest master we see on-campus, and he shows Nomi how to effectively block a user from the Force, something he describes as terrible yet sometimes neccessary.
He points out that he developed this in the waning days of the Hyperspace Wars, fighting the renegade Sith as he embarked on his journey to scour knowledge from the invaders. This technique is effective enough to put Ulic on his ass, and it worked on previous Sith.
Even if I were to claim that Odan-Urr was a substandard Jedi master with no Force powers and no way of capably handling himself in combat (Which would be absolutely ridiculous), his ability to turn off the Force-switch on people makes him a dangerous opponent in itself. I mean really- we don't see him taking a crap either.... Should I assume he's incapable?
Actually, the amulet's ability to focus and multiply hate and the darkside is noted in the narration, and Aleema and Ulic could not defend against Kun's amulet attack, which he apparently learned to control after the slaying of the Sadow-created wyrm. Narration by the amulet's creator says that the amulet only becomes more powerful, and that even Kun was having difficulty to control the power.
Ulic, with the amulet's mate, and Aleema were less effective.
Kun floored Aleema and Ulic was manually apprehended by a bunch of his jedi friends while wielding it.
Since the blasts are very large and Kun, even untrained with the weapon, can use it and his own Force-fueled agility to manhandle the wyrm while still pelting away... it stands to reason that it's an effective weapon.
Certainly one that Mace has never seen before. I'm not saying Mace is a slowpoke, but he can only dodge so many of these blasts before something gets to him.
And if Mace can't close the distance because Kun is raining hell on him, I don't see him winning in a saber match.
It seems that Kun only challenges those to saber duels when he has an ego-boost to gain from the victory (Vodo, the Ulic "the pretender"😉. Others he just tossed around like garbage (Sylvar, Odan-Urr, Aleema, etc.). He certainly didn't dally around with Freedon Nadd's spirit either.
Firstly, without having to quote every single point about Odan-Urr, I'll note the following;
Odan-Urr during the Hyperspace Wars is noted as being more a student than a fighter. This is apparent. Saying that because he didn't whup ultimate ass during his appearances during this time has absolutely no bearing on his status a thousand years later. So unless Odan-Urr has been in a severe coma or busy doing crossword puzzles, one would assume that he spent that time becoming a badass Jedi master, even if only in Force knowledge.
Note that Yoda himself didn't run around killing people with his lightsaber and yet when the time came, he was more than capable. Ancient Jedi Masters are, by definition, incredible users of the Force. They have the time to spend studying it more than their younger opponents do. And yet none of that age or knowledge prevented Odan-Urr from being effortlessly destroyed. You can either accept that as proof of Kun's Force powers at this point, or you can dismiss it and belittle Odan-Urr; at this point I don't care. I am not going back and forth on this issue any longer.
Aleema was knocked out, yes...although when, I ask you, was Ulic getting a full on blast of it? Last I remember, Kun simply ignites his saber and engages Ulic while exchanging trash talk
Ulic doesn't get any amulet blasts his way, you're right. Kun just starts trash talking and it turns into WWE.
For starters, Ulic is clearly not rational at that point and says numerous times he doesn't want to harm his friends or Nomi. Kun is not handicapped by either of those factors. Nor are the Amulets the same type. If Ulic is firing massive blasts from his hands rather than waving the amulet around while in close quarters, I don't see things going down the right way.
Kun was able to generate the blasts moments after donning the amulet; Ulic seemed incapable of using them to the same effect. And the amulet is noted as being the mate of Kun's. So either it's meant to compliment or defend against Kun's amulet's abilities or it has the same ones. I don't see it doing the former, and Aleema uses the same amulet to make smaller, less effective blasts. Kun's, by comparison, make those puny. And no, she's not a Force god, but she's able enough to make massive phantoms and illusions and has some knowledge of the Sith arts.
For starters, look at the amulet when he starts blasting. The blasts are not 'very large' there. Mace is a person who can dodge repeated turbolaser blasts. Destructive power's another thing, but it has to actually hit.
Never mind the rate of fire, preparation time...all unknown.
You mean these blasts?
Yes, those look so damn small.
As for rate of fire and prep time, there's absolutely no concerns there. Kun fires them back to back throughout the battle and he needs no prep time whatsoever. And he's doing this while moving all over the place. He doesn't sit still and chant or anything that stupid.
Do you REALLY think Mace "Shatterpoint" Windu is only going to give Kun a moving target? Noting that Mace's speed exceeds anything Kun has shown us, he is more than capable of closing the distanceas he dodges until he forces Kun into a fight on his own terms.
What, so you give him a middle name, he wins? Please. Mace has "more speed" because he exists in two different forms of media: a novel about him and the movies. Kun's appearances are limited by their own form of media; comics. It's not aesthetically pleasing and fair to show blurs, nor is it exactly easy to rely such. However, if you actually opened your comics you could see that Kun is moving all over the place during the fight with the wyrm while unleashing those blasts.
He is not going to give Mace "Shatterpoint" Windu a stationary target, either.
Originally posted by Janus Marius
Firstly, without having to quote every single point about Odan-Urr, I'll note the following;Odan-Urr during the Hyperspace Wars is noted as being more a student than a fighter. This is apparent. Saying that because he didn't whup ultimate ass during his appearances during this time has absolutely no bearing on his status a thousand years later. So unless Odan-Urr has been in a severe coma or busy doing crossword puzzles, one would assume that he spent that time becoming a badass Jedi master, even if only in Force knowledge.
Note that Yoda himself didn't run around killing people with his lightsaber and yet when the time came, he was more than capable.
Ancient Jedi Masters are, by definition, incredible users of the Force. They have the time to spend studying it more than their younger opponents do. And yet none of that age or knowledge prevented Odan-Urr from being effortlessly destroyed.
You can either accept that as proof of Kun's Force powers at this point, or you can dismiss it and belittle Odan-Urr; at this point I don't care. I am not going back and forth on this issue any longer.
Ulic doesn't get any amulet blasts his way, you're right. Kun just starts trash talking and it turns into WWE.
Kun was able to generate the blasts moments after donning the amulet; Ulic seemed incapable of using them to the same effect.
And the amulet is noted as being the mate of Kun's. So either it's meant to compliment or defend against Kun's amulet's abilities or it has the same ones.
I don't see it doing the former, and Aleema uses the same amulet to make smaller, less effective blasts.
Kun's, by comparison, make those puny. And no, she's not a Force god, but she's able enough to make massive phantoms and illusions and has some knowledge of the Sith arts.
You mean these blasts?Yes, those look so damn small.
As for rate of fire and prep time, there's absolutely no concerns there. Kun fires them back to back throughout the battle and he needs no prep time whatsoever.
And he's doing this while moving all over the place. He doesn't sit still and chant or anything that stupid.
What, so you give him a middle name, he wins? Please. Mace has "more speed" because he exists in two different forms of media: a novel about him and the movies.
Kun's appearances are limited by their own form of media; comics. It's not aesthetically pleasing and fair to show blurs, nor is it exactly easy to rely such.
And considering the comics had, at numerous points, broken a barrier for 'aesthetically pleasing' with the awful artwork in several places.
Moreover, the comic uses a narrator to commute things at many times. KJA could easily have relied on that to showcase feats of speed by Kun.
However, if you actually opened your comics you could see that Kun is moving all over the place during the fight with the wyrm while unleashing those blasts.
He is not going to give Mace "Shatterpoint" Windu a stationary target, either.
For the last time, Aleema doesn't use "amulet blasts". THis is totally ridiculous because:
A. She gave the sith talisman/amulet to Ulic before she threw these so called "blasts" at Kun
B. She threw sith magic at him
C. Kun threw that SAME sith magic back at her, but a lot more potent and on a level beyond Aleema. He then mentioned that Nadd taught her the beginnings of sith magic, but he has learned "Everything". Janus, you KNOW they weren't amulet blasts, why even attempt to bring up this point?
Originally posted by GahLakTus
Lol shut the f*ck up and get off KMC, your obviously not welcomed here seeing you don't know how to construct arguements and bumping old threads
Why dont you STOP CURSING PEOPLE OUT, AND INSULTING THEM.
Your just a pitifull fat lonely loser with no life and no freinds, all you know how to do is go on the forums and curse people out. Why dont you get off the computor for once, and get an education? you a low class loser thats not even worth talking to. The fact that your alive is an insult to the human race.
Get a life, and stop cursing people out on the internet. You need to go to school, and learn manners.
Good luck with life Mr "f_ck you"
Originally posted by Darth_noodleBECAUSE YOU BUMP OLD THREADS AND MAKE BULLSHIT UP
Why dont you STOP CURSING PEOPLE OUT, AND INSULTING THEM.
Originally posted by Darth_noodleLol if you actually went to kindergarden you would actually know how to read basic sentences, i already wrote why i was spending time on these forums, Do you see me here 24/7? No you don't i have to sleep, i have to eat, i hang out with friends, goto the movies.
Your just a pitifull fat lonely loser with no life and no freinds,
Originally posted by Darth_noodleUh what? I curse your because you ARE an idiot, your bumping old threads and your irritating the hell out of everybody.
all you know how to do is go on the forums and curse people out.
Who? Darth hord was complaining why did you bring back 2 threads?
Originally posted by Darth_noodleIv done that many times, simply to go out to the movies with family and friends, as for my education if you actually CAN read, i already said im on HOLIDAY
Why dont you get off the computor for once, and get an education?
Originally posted by Darth_noodleAnd thats the best comeback? So because i insulted you it makes me low class?
you a low class loser thats not even worth talking to. The fact that your alive is an insult to the human race.
What about the DOG who barked back? What does that make you? An even more lowclass person who wants to start a childish cuss whom has no father no mother and want to take it out on other people because he feels suicidal?
Originally posted by Darth_noodleI have a right to curse you, and i DO have a live, hang out with friends, school education, parties going on vacation with my family, if thats what you mean by get a life, if not then no i dont have a life.
Get a life, and stop cursing people out on the internet. You need to go to school, and learn manners.
Originally posted by Darth_noodleLol i thought it was "Mt shut up"? Lol?
Good luck with life Mr "f_ck you"
Originally posted by GahLakTus
BECAUSE YOU BUMP OLD THREADS AND MAKE BULLSHIT UPLol if you actually went to kindergarden you would actually know how to read basic sentences, i already wrote [b] why
i was spending time on these forums, Do you see me here 24/7? No you don't i have to sleep, i have to eat, i hang out with friends, goto the movies.
Uh what? I curse your because you ARE an idiot, your bumping old threads and your irritating the hell out of everybody.Who? Darth hord was complaining why did you bring back 2 threads?
Iv done that many times, simply to go out to the movies with family and friends, as for my education if you actually CAN read, i already said im on HOLIDAY
And thats the best comeback? So because i insulted you it makes me low class?What about the DOG who barked back? What does that make you? An even more lowclass person who wants to start a childish cuss whom has no father no mother and want to take it out on other people because he feels suicidal?
I have a right to curse you, and i DO have a live, hang out with friends, school education, parties going on vacation with my family, if thats what you mean by get a life, if not then no i dont have a life.Lol i thought it was "Mt shut up"? Lol? [/B]
My point proven.
You so low that talking to you is equal to talking to a jar of dirt, which is similar to where your mom was born, and where you were raised.
Originally posted by Darth_noodleHow do you prove a point you havn't made? Lol your pathetic loser whos parents killed themselves due to your existance
My point proven.You so low that talking to you is equal to talking to a jar of dirt, which is similar to where your mom was born, and where you were raised.