Universal Healthcare, why it should not be brought upon Americans

Universal Healthcare is something all the Democrats running for president want.

By having universal health care, it would lead to a large portion of our country run by the government. The health of the citizens are no longer given to private companies who are trying to save lives for perhaps moral reasons, competition, the fact it pays well, or perhaps a combination or other reasons that I did not list. It will be given to the government. Now, of course I am not suggesting an inane idea that government are run by robots or such nonsense, of course it is run by people but it is no longer in the free market. Isn't it a great freedom that we can choose to have our medical records in private, to freely alternate from doctor to doctor, to discuss things regarding health or perhaps problems that you may be having elsewhere without knowing there is someone that will be looking at this? All this is a freedom that this country offers, a freedom more and more countries are taking away. Also, what about the doctor? The doctor is also an American citizen who has the right to decide how expensive a medical related issue will be to care for or for an inspection, to freely make organizations or companies that can benefit the amount of worth you get. They can decide where they can live or how they can live, based on needs, wants, and how hard they decided to work in their job. By having socialized health care you eliminate this freedom and divert it to the government. The government will dictate how the people will act and the doctors.

Now lets fast forward to the future and see how the government will handle universal health care. They will dictate what doctors do. In what way am I predicting? Well, for everyone to be equal, the American people will be divided among doctors and doctors across the nation. In essence, they are having forced patients brought upon them, and a limited or to great of a number. Like professions that operate under the free market, many choose how much they want to or like to work. Now, being in a country which is pretty large and have different economic standings, population, and related things does change by geographical location. This means that in some locations, they need more doctors and others they have to much. Soon, they will not be hiring doctors in that location and you are NOT allowed to work there, even if you try. Then like teachers and many other government paid job there probably will be a pay check, at least a much lower pay then many successful doctors get. Then the government will need doctors and start placing them accordingly to what fits which. All these rights taken away alone can discourage people from pursing the medicine field.

While personal freedom being lost, which is an important thing in this country, competition. Competition occurs in the free market. Now, what competition happens in the medicare department? Well, there is actually quite a lot. Lets talk about the performance of doctors. Doctors must excel in what they do for word to get out on how well they are, their active participation, willingness, care, etc. Thats how some doctors receive more money than others. Of course it becomes more complicated than this but this is just the gist of doctor competition. Then there is medicine. New medicine is being created and researched every single day. Why? A large part is competition. How often do you turn on your radio, tv, or perhaps see internet commercials that feature medicine ads or commercial? As a person experience I witness them possibly more than any other type of commercial I encounter. This competition gives researchers and scientists the extra incentive to try and find new medicine that ranges from cancer to the common acne infection.

The truth is, this country was founded on principles and ideas. Those ideas and principles were formulated after undergoing a tyrannical reign under the British government. These principles? Freedom. These principles are being broken by the liberals. They are trying to induce socialism into our nation, and God help us let us hope this doesn't happen to this nation which I can gladly say I love.

Originally posted by OnslaughtKILLS
Universal Healthcare is something all the Democrats running for president want.

By having universal health care, it would lead to a large portion of our country run by the government. The health of the citizens are no longer given to private companies who are trying to save lives for perhaps moral reasons, competition, the fact it pays well, or perhaps a combination or other reasons that I did not list. It will be given to the government. Now, of course I am not suggesting an inane idea that government are run by robots or such nonsense, of course it is run by people but it is no longer in the free market. Isn't it a great freedom that we can choose to have our medical records in private, to freely alternate from doctor to doctor, to discuss things regarding health or perhaps problems that you may be having elsewhere without knowing there is someone that will be looking at this? All this is a freedom that this country offers, a freedom more and more countries are taking away. Also, what about the doctor? The doctor is also an American citizen who has the right to decide how expensive a medical related issue will be to care for or for an inspection, to freely make organizations or companies that can benefit the amount of worth you get. They can decide where they can live or how they can live, based on needs, wants, and how hard they decided to work in their job. By having socialized health care you eliminate this freedom and divert it to the government. The government will dictate how the people will act and the doctors.

Now lets fast forward to the future and see how the government will handle universal health care. They will dictate what doctors do. In what way am I predicting? Well, for everyone to be equal, the American people will be divided among doctors and doctors across the nation. In essence, they are having forced patients brought upon them, and a limited or to great of a number. Like professions that operate under the free market, many choose how much they want to or like to work. Now, being in a country which is pretty large and have different economic standings, population, and related things does change by geographical location. This means that in some locations, they need more doctors and others they have to much. Soon, they will not be hiring doctors in that location and you are NOT allowed to work there, even if you try. Then like teachers and many other government paid job there probably will be a pay check, at least a much lower pay then many successful doctors get. Then the government will need doctors and start placing them accordingly to what fits which. All these rights taken away alone can discourage people from pursing the medicine field.

While personal freedom being lost, which is an important thing in this country, competition. Competition occurs in the free market. Now, what competition happens in the medicare department? Well, there is actually quite a lot. Lets talk about the performance of doctors. Doctors must excel in what they do for word to get out on how well they are, their active participation, willingness, care, etc. Thats how some doctors receive more money than others. Of course it becomes more complicated than this but this is just the gist of doctor competition. Then there is medicine. New medicine is being created and researched every single day. Why? A large part is competition. How often do you turn on your radio, tv, or perhaps see internet commercials that feature medicine ads or commercial? As a person experience I witness them possibly more than any other type of commercial I encounter. This competition gives researchers and scientists the extra incentive to try and find new medicine that ranges from cancer to the common acne infection.

The truth is, this country was founded on principles and ideas. Those ideas and principles were formulated after undergoing a tyrannical reign under the British government. These principles? Freedom. These principles are being broken by the liberals. They are trying to induce socialism into our nation, and God help us let us hope this doesn't happen to this nation which I can gladly say I love.

Sounds like negative propganda to me.... 😕

Originally posted by OnslaughtKILLS

Edited for web-space... The truth is, this country was founded on principles and ideas. Those ideas and principles were formulated after undergoing a tyrannical reign under the British government. These principles? Freedom. These principles are being broken by the liberals. They are trying to induce socialism into our nation, and God help us let us hope this doesn't happen to this nation which I can gladly say I love.

Fair enough... what's the alternative then? Leave things the way they are and we have millions of Americans who can not afford to get sick, millions of our seniors who can't afford to eat well on a daily basis because they're paying $50.00 for a pill they need to take daily and millions of children who never get check-ups that could potentially catch a disease/problem before it becoems fatal.

So, what are the Conservatives going to do to fix it?

Statement: Spelljammer has reinitiated his "sock campaign."

Imperative: Proceed to banning phase at once.

Yeah, look at all those countries out there with socialized healthcare! Look at how they've traded in their birks for jack boots. Look at Canada and France, they're fast on the way to goose stepping!

There isn't one ****ing bit of truth to the slippery slope argument when it comes to universal healthcare.

I always find the argument that socialized medicine is a fast track to a dictatorship to be totally unfounded. It doesn't even make sense.

What is more interesting is that every person with any acclaim or credability; be they a writer, actor or normal citizen who has spent a lot of time in France, never have anything negative to say about their health care system.

It's like the "Hitler Card"...

On a happy note, Conservatives will soon not be able to use France in a derogatory way. i.e. "Move to France you Liberals, rable, rable, rable!". Sarkozy is somewhat pro-American, so we can start calling "Freedom Fries" French Fries again.

Originally posted by OnslaughtKILLS
The health of the citizens are no longer given to private companies who are trying to save lives for perhaps moral reasons

I always have to laugh when i hear someone say the government is going to get all up with itself, and start trying to control it's citizens.

Like they don't already?

Conservatives want government sponsored religion, but not healthcare?

Answer:

"This country [U.S.] was founded by Christians and on Christian principles!"

Originally posted by Robtard
Answer:

"This country [U.S.] was founded by Christians and on Christian principles!"

then the christian principles of love and charity should be kicking in any minute now, right?

lol, what about "turn the other cheek" or "let ye who is without sin cast the first stone"?

I think it was a Christian who first said those... It might have been a Jew though

what a longwinded and completely nonsensical rant. why is it that kmc's most clueless idiots always have the most to say (type)?

btw: feceman wins the 'guess the sock troll' prize (that prize being a post of validation, that post of validation being this post)

Query: Why is it wrong when someone disallows one to abort a fetus but right when someone forces one to pay for another's health insurance through increased taxes?

Quotation:

For patients diagnosed in 2000-2002, survival for patients across Europe with tumours was significantly lower than in the United States: 47.3 percent for men and 55.8 for women, compared to 66.3 and 62.9 percent respectively, the study noted.

Link: http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070820/hl_afp/healthcancereurope_070820231752

Originally posted by OnslaughtKILLS
The health of the citizens are no longer given to private companies who are trying to save lives for perhaps moral reasons

I just snorted milk up my nose. With lines like that you could be a comedian.

But out of interest could one person who uses this kind of argument give me an example of a western nation with Health-care that has ended up as you describe?

Out of the many European nations, Canada, Australia, New Zealand... which of them has ended up like some Dystopian night-mare? Especially considering some of them have had it in place for a long, long time? If anything the way you describe it indicates a lack of understanding about how the system works, and works well, in such nations.

Certainly in Australia health care is available for all, thus insuring no person is left out in the cold. But private health insurance is still available and popular - perceived better and quicker services, access to electives etc. But for the people who can't afford it they need not worry about being unable to afford medical care when they need it.

Query: Why is it wrong when someone disallows one to abort a fetus but right when someone forces one to pay for another's health insurance through increased taxes?

I am happy for some of my taxes to go, through the Federal budget, to healthcare, in the knowledge that if I don't have private health insurance I will still be looked after if I get ill. In fact I like the idea even more then Australia buying US militray hand-me-downs. In fact really I just like the idea that in some small way the people of my nation are playing a part in each others well-being.

For patients diagnosed in 2000-2002, survival for patients across Europe with tumours was significantly lower than in the United States: 47.3 percent for men and 55.8 for women, compared to 66.3 and 62.9 percent respectively, the study noted.

Ahhh - what is the relevance of that? It wouldn't have anything to do with the fact the study dealt with a goodly portion of Europe that ranges from the very high quality to the very low who are naturally going to drag down the percentage - you know, all those happy former East Bloc countries that have been spending years getting back on their feet.

I think that figure is more indicative of the fact Europe is a mixed bag of nations rather then somehow showing universal health-care actually leads to worse chances of survival.

Originally posted by OnslaughtKILLS

By having universal health care, it would lead to a large portion of our country run by the government.

Whaaaat?!

It's Okay, just take the blue ones.......

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
I am happy for some of my taxes to go, through the Federal budget, to healthcare, in the knowledge that if I don't have private health insurance I will still be looked after if I get ill. In fact I like the idea even more then Australia buying US militray hand-me-downs. In fact really I just like the idea that in some small way the people of my nation are playing a part in each others well-being.

Ahhh - what is the relevance of that? It wouldn't have anything to do with the fact the study dealt with a goodly portion of Europe that ranges from the very high quality to the very low who are naturally going to drag down the percentage - you know, all those happy former East Bloc countries that have been spending years getting back on their feet.

I think that figure is more indicative of the fact Europe is a mixed bag of nations rather then somehow showing universal health-care actually leads to worse chances of survival.

From 1991 to 2002, survival rates in eastern Europe improved from 30.3 to 44.7 percent for colorectal cancer, from 60.0 to 73.9 percent for breast cancer, and from 39.5 to 68.0 percent for prostate cancer.

Private companies have no ****ing interest in the public good or health. All they care about is providing great health care for themselves and skimming as much money off of premiums into their own pockets as possible. Hell, considering all the preexisting conditions that you can't get coverage for i wouldn't be surprised if there are companies who covertly refuse to cover blacks and jews due to heart disease and cancer. I've dealt with these ass clowns before. YOU DON'T have the freedom to choose your own doctor, he has to be on your company plan. Your doctor DOESN'T have the right to treat you in the way he deems necesary till it's agreed upon by some bastard in an insurance company with no medical training who'd rather buy blow than save a life. The only possible way the current system could be fair and equitable is if it were legal for regular citizens to hire blackwater and put out contract hits on the CEO's and boardmembers of health insurance companies that deny people's claims, thus maiming or killing them and their children. And considering that Bush and Grover Norquist are really getting a boner about annhilitaing medicare, medicade, and S-CHIP, hence throwing literally 40% of the country in a situation where they and their kids can't get any coverage anywhere for any condition, the previous nightmare scenario will either become necesary or this country will literally collapse do to mass death, capital flight, mass emigration, and probable civil war. I'd rather have socialized medicine and an equitable society, than a dying people taking arms and going robsepierre on executives cause that's the only logical conclusion to our current trend.

Originally posted by FeceMan
Statement: This is a non-answer.

Because I didn't shake with fury at the idea of legal abortions while the evil government takes my money through taxes and, of all things, spends some of it the health and well-being of my countrymen?

If I was the type to be against women having the right to abort then I don't see how it matters what the government spends my money on - be it health-care, being it military, be it cultural or trade. I could say:

Query: Why is it wrong when someone disallows one to abort a fetus but right when someone forces one to pay for anther's education through increased taxes?

Or:

Query: Why is it wrong when someone disallows one to abort a fetus but right when someone forces one to pay for anther's training as a solider through increased taxes?

And so on. The answer then as I see it is "there is something wrong with disallowing abortions as they are a women's rights, and unless you have a problem with your tax being spent on anything at all it is not an infringement of rights for some of it to be spent on health care."

As far as I know you pay taxes anyway, with or without it. And seeing as how I, and the people in Australia and other government supplied health care countries aren't living in poverty due to "increased taxes to pay for other peoples health insurance" then I can only imagine that scare tactic is slightly exaggerated.

Quotation:

That is a non-answer. If the article was linking universal health care as the cause for that discrepancy/improvement then it would be relevant. As it is all it is revealing is, you know, Europe has some damn good health care, and some poorer quality health care - you know, comparing former East European bloc countries to Sweden or Germany. And that some countries are improving while others aren't doing as good as they should be, especially considering the amount they spend on health.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura

I am happy for some of my taxes to go, through the Federal budget, to healthcare, in the knowledge that if I don't have private health insurance I will still be looked after if I get ill.

That's awesome...but, why don't you just organize yourself with others willing to pay for healthcare and do that....while those that don't want to don't.

And if you feel charitable why don't you pay for those that can't afford it as well.