Universal Healthcare, why it should not be brought upon Americans

Originally posted by Devil King
As far as I'm concerned, what? Morals are an issue of emotional reaction. This is why a judge will recuse himself during a trial, because he knows he isn't approaching the case from an objective place. That is the government...at least in theory.

Morals do not mean that it has to be an emotional reaction at all. It can be absolutely rational, you got an odd view of morals.

Originally posted by Devil King

no no, I'm not saying it isn't a moral perspective that allows us to have an opinion on it. I'm saying that the removal of morality from the debate is going to be the enevitable outcome. This is why one side of the debate is going to end up wrong.

Morality can not be removed from the issue. What would you even talk about if it was?

Originally posted by Devil King

I don't understand your question(or statement), so we're both confused I guess.

What are morals to you? How would you define them?

Originally posted by Devil King

Oh no, I don't think the government is morally responsable for anything. I don't think a government is capable of being moral or immoral. We aren't talking about social responsability. We're talking about the responsability of a government, based solely on it's own existence.

Elaborate please.

Originally posted by Devil King

You aren't talking about morality, you're talking about a total lack of it.

Not at all. I am talking about morals. That's what everything is about here.

Originally posted by Devil King

legal or not legal does not = moral

Actually laws are a set of morals, or at least caused by a set of them. Legal means moral in one set of morals.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Morals do not mean that it has to be an emotional reaction at all. It can be absolutely rational, you got an odd view of morals.

Morals are not the same as integrity. Integrity is a personal standard, morals are not. Your morals standards are what you hold others to.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Morality can not be removed from the issue. What would you even talk about if it was?

exactly! What would there be to talk about? I didn't say it wasn't a moral issue for some people, I'm saying morality will, in the end, have nothing to do with it.

Originally posted by Bardock42
What are morals to you? How would you define them?

See above.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Elaborate please.

In order for a government to exist, it has to be the will of teh people that it exist. But after that, it can't represent everyone based on a limited idea, like moral subjectivity. A government is not an individual, so it can't be moral or immoral. A government can't have an opinion, unless it's a unanimous opinion amongst it's citizens.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Not at all. I am talking about morals. That's what everything is about here.

that was a joke.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Actually laws are a set of morals, or at least caused by a set of them. Legal means moral in one set of morals.

Perhaps 2000 years ago when Moses was sitting on that mountain chisseling commandments.

Laws can't be morals, otherwise they wouldn't be laws...they'd be morals.

Originally posted by Devil King
Morals are not the same as integrity. Integrity is a personal standard, morals are not. Your morals standards are what you hold others to.

Well, yeah, they are not the same, your point? Also, your morals might be not to judge others, you wouldn't hold them by them then, would you?

Originally posted by Devil King
exactly! What would there be to talk about? I didn't say it wasn't a moral issue for some people, I'm saying morality will, in the end, have nothing to do with it.

But it will. I am sure you can't even imagine a scenario in where it is solved without morals being involved.

Originally posted by Devil King
See above.

Okay

Originally posted by Devil King
In order for a government to exist, it has to be the will of teh people that it exist. But after that, it can't represent everyone based on a limited idea, like moral subjectivity. A government is not an individual, so it can't be moral or immoral. A government can't have an opinion, unless it's a unanimous opinion amongst it's citizens.

It's mostly actions that can be moral or immoral. A government acts, so it can be moral by all people's subjective standards as well as creating one itself after which it acts. Governments have a moral code.

Originally posted by Devil King
that was a joke.

Ha Ha

Originally posted by Devil King
Perhaps 2000 years ago when Moses was sitting on that mountain chisseling commandments.

Laws can't be morals, otherwise they wouldn't be laws...they'd be morals.

What nonsense. Laws are always morals.

If you say "It is not allowed to kill another person, a person that does that will be punished" you are saying "It is wrong to kill" it is a moral.

Is'nt this supposed to be about Healthcare?