I think this holds the same problem as Vaan vs Tidus. Ashe is fully customizable. You'll have to be more specific with what her abilities are or we have no way of knowing what she can do.
You can't really use the main characters from FFXII in fights as they are left entirely up to the player to decide their skills.
Well since Yuna's using her warrior dressphere in this fight, I'm assuming its a battle of sword skill. In that case Ashe would probably win since she has some knowledge of a blade while Yuna is seen as a gunner for the majority of X-2.
However as stated above, XII charachter can do pretty much anything the player wants them to do while X-2 limits Yuna to an individual skill set to use. I still say Ashe is better because she didn't become a spice girl replica after two years of being a widow;she became Final Fantasy Princess Leia instead.
Originally posted by TacDavey
Ashe is fully customizable.
What TacDavey says is quite right. But, I have fully played Final Fantasy XII and I know pretty well each characters feats outside Gameplay. We can't really tell for sure if the characters can use magic, if whoever of them can summon Espers or if they can equip different kind of weapons, but the Quickenings are pretty much unique abilities from each characters. If the abilities doesn't have an story line doesn't mean they doesn't exist.
Originally posted by GrieverSquall
What TacDavey says is quite right. But, I have fully played Final Fantasy XII and I know pretty well each characters feats outside Gameplay. We can't really tell for sure if the characters can use magic, if whoever of them can summon Espers or if they can equip different kind of weapons, but the Quickenings are pretty much unique abilities from each characters. If the abilities doesn't have an story line doesn't mean they doesn't exist.
It might as well mean just that. The developers of the game didn't give them abilities. You did. And since that changes from person to person, it's impossible to say what Ashe can or can't do. If you want to make a character fight using FFXII characters, you're going to have to lay out their skill set first.
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Well since Yuna's using her warrior dressphere in this fight, I'm assuming its a battle of sword skill. In that case Ashe would probably win since she has some knowledge of a blade while Yuna is seen as a gunner for the majority of X-2.However as stated above, XII charachter can do pretty much anything the player wants them to do while X-2 limits Yuna to an individual skill set to use. I still say Ashe is better because she didn't become a spice girl replica after two years of being a widow;she became Final Fantasy Princess Leia instead.
Ashe may have a base understanding of the sword, since you see her using one when you first meet her, but beyond that we have no idea what she can do, and a base understanding of the sword is not enough.
Also, Yuna's dress sphere does more than just give her a sword, it gives her all the abilities that go along with it. If we go solely on what we know of Ashe, Yuna comes out on top simply because we know more of her capabilities.
Originally posted by TacDavey
It might as well mean just that. The developers of the game didn't give them abilities. You did. And since that changes from person to person, it's impossible to say what Ashe can or can't do. If you want to make a character fight using FFXII characters, you're going to have to lay out their skill set first.
Agreed. But the Quickenings are unique abilities from each character in FFXII, it is not illogical to think that they can use them, it is illogical to think they couldn't use them as Squall couldn't perform Renzokuken or Zell using his fighting skills. You don't need a cutscene in the story line to show they can perform his abilities.
Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Agreed. But the Quickenings are unique abilities from each character in FFXII, it is not illogical to think that they can use them, it is illogical to think they couldn't use them as Squall couldn't perform Renzokuken or Zell using his fighting skills. You don't need a cutscene in the story line to show they can perform his abilities.
They can no more be used than limit breaks from the other games. Just like Lionheart means nothing in the debate of Cloud vs Squall, Quickenings are no more than game mechanics. Most of them don't even make any sense. But that is another discussion for another time.
If the above is true then the only people from XII that can be used in a debate are the villians. XII doesn't give any of the main characters individual talents other than quickenings and since their game mechanics they're probably void in a debate as well. If its any consolation, Ashe had the power to rule the world(as the occuria's pet) in her hands.
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
If the above is true then the only people from XII that can be used in a debate are the villians. XII doesn't give any of the main characters individual talents other than quickenings and since their game mechanics they're probably void in a debate as well. If its any consolation, Ashe had the power to rule the world(as the occuria's pet) in her hands.
That's what I've been saying. FFXII main characters can't be used in debates like this unless you specify their abilities, and even then, I don't think it would work very well.
Really it's just best to avoid FFXII characters all together, except the villains as you said.
Originally posted by TacDavey
They can no more be used than limit breaks from the other games. Just like Lionheart means nothing in the debate of Cloud vs Squall, Quickenings are no more than game mechanics. Most of them don't even make any sense. But that is another discussion for another time.
Tac, I agree with you in everything you've said and it seems pretty convincing. I respectfully disagree here. Quickenings are abilities from each character, unique from each one, you can't choose them or customize them as the Magic, weapons or Summons, this is different. If they make sense or not, is irrelevant and I leave it as your standpoint as for me Blitz Ace, Dolphin Blow and many others doesn't make any sense either and they're probably animations of the attacks to make them to look cool, this also happens in Anime series. So... I don't really think that a Dolphin will appear after hitting an enemy in reality, the fact is that those are the characters abilities. Game mechanics are the Licence Boards, the Sphere Grids, the Junction system and the Materia system. NOT the characters unique abilities. I would wish to know the story of each ability to have an accurate representation of each one depending each character, but an ability can be represented as by one way here and by other way there, the only fact is that they own them and they can use them. I don't see anything illogical here. Final Fantasy Tactics it's the same, no, it's worst, EVERYTHING is customizable so we don't know anything about the characters true abilities except their background. I can make Ramza to be a Dragoon warrior if I like or I can make him to be a White Mage if I like, you see, etc.
Hey Ramza was cool despite not having any individuality outside his super-squire job. So far the only person that could use quickenings outside of manual gameplay in XII was Basch so we can't tell what Ashe can do. Yuna on the other hand could use her skills as a warrior to tie or possibly beat Ashe.(evidence or not I'm still rooting for the princess) If they were on the Pharos where the Sun Cryst was Ashe could just turn it into a nuke and vaporize Yuna, herself, the Pharos, and potentially the port near it.(Or was that just Cid's genius that did that)
Maybe quickenigs are part of the story...maybe not...maybe Yuna would get nuked by a nethicite shard. As this goes on, I feel its just a bad idea to use XII characters as evidence for...a lot of things.
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
So far the only person that could use quickenings outside of manual gameplay in XII was Basch so we can't tell what Ashe can do. Yuna on the other hand could use her skills as a warrior to tie or possibly beat Ashe.
What do you mean by Yuna using her skills as a warrior? You mean her Dressphere? That's the same, she never has used any of her other Dresspheres in the story so we can't use that as evidence, remember? It's the same issue that applies the Quickenings. 'Since the abilities doesn't have an story it means they doesn't exist'. That's invalid, they CAN exist as far as we know that they can transform and use various Dresspheres and as far as we know Basch had his Quickening without requirements to use the Licence Board which IS a game mechanic that it's UP TO THE PLAYER.
The Quickenings are unique abilities of each character and they aren't customizable, they ARE their own abilities.
Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Tac, I agree with you in everything you've said and it seems pretty convincing. I respectfully disagree here. Quickenings are abilities from each character, unique from each one, you can't choose them or customize them as the Magic, weapons or Summons, this is different. If they make sense or not, is irrelevant and I leave it as your standpoint as for me Blitz Ace, Dolphin Blow and many others doesn't make any sense either and they're probably animations of the attacks to make them to look cool, this also happens in Anime series. So... I don't really think that a Dolphin will appear after hitting an enemy in reality, the fact is that those are the characters abilities. Game mechanics are the Licence Boards, the Sphere Grids, the Junction system and the Materia system. NOT the characters unique abilities. I would wish to know the story of each ability to have an accurate representation of each one depending each character, but an ability can be represented as by one way here and by other way there, the only fact is that they own them and they can use them. I don't see anything illogical here. Final Fantasy Tactics it's the same, no, it's worst, EVERYTHING is customizable so we don't know anything about the characters true abilities except their background. I can make Ramza to be a Dragoon warrior if I like or I can make him to be a White Mage if I like, you see, etc.
Lionheart was unique to Squall. It's the same thing. Squall leaps into the air and flies there for a second performing Lionheart, but we all know Squall can't really fly. It's simply put into the game to look cool and add flare. Quickenings are no different. We don't consider Lionheart an accurate representation of Squalls abilities, so why should we consider Quickenings?
Originally posted by GrieverSquall
What do you mean by Yuna using her skills as a warrior? You mean her Dressphere? That's the same, she never has used any of her other Dresspheres in the story so we can't use that as evidence, remember? It's the same issue that applies the Quickenings. 'Since the abilities doesn't have an story it means they doesn't exist'. That's invalid, they CAN exist as far as we know that they can transform and use various Dresspheres and as far as we know Basch had his Quickening without requirements to use the Licence Board which IS a game mechanic that it's UP TO THE PLAYER.The Quickenings are unique abilities of each character and they aren't customizable, they ARE their own abilities.
That's not quite right. Though Yuna never does switch dress spheres in the story, they are still an active part of the plot. You see the dress spheres power in action when Yuna turns into her dance form, which IS in the story. That, and they talk about them throughout the game. It's more than simply the need for it to be seen in a cutscene. Though Yuna's warrior form is never shown, the way dress spheres work is all explained and accounted for. And the warrior dress sphere is one of them, and so it IS connected to the story. The same cannot be said for Quickenings, which are nothing but battle related, and thus fall into the category of game mechanics.
Originally posted by TacDavey
Lionheart was unique to Squall. It's the same thing. Squall leaps into the air and flies there for a second performing Lionheart, but we all know Squall can't really fly. It's simply put into the game to look cool and add flare. Quickenings are no different. We don't consider Lionheart an accurate representation of Squalls abilities, so why should we consider Quickenings?
Yeah and Tidus kicking a ball and then explodes. That's the same I've said, special animations to look cool, that also happens in Anime series. But if they can do it or not it's another story, they can. The abilities such as the Quickenings doesn't need to be into the story line to exist. I don't think that the Quickenings would have been important to the story of Final Fantasy XII, that's why the developers didn't focus on that, why they would explain the Quickenings story? Or Lion Heart's story? For what? Unlike in FFX-2 where the Dresspheres are basically the story. Plus, they are no mechanics, the Licence Board and Dresspheres are mechanic.
From Basch' demonstration, we can tell that Quickenings can destroy things outside of a controlled battle so they aren't solely game mechanics. However seeing as how they're never shown again other than when you use them kind of makes things confusing. I think I'm getting this point somewhat. Ashe could use quickenings anytime she wanted while Yuna has to use dresspheres to do battle. However what would decide a win. If quickenings are innate abilities then Ashe could just obliterate Yuna with a chain. If dresspheres are recognized as just spheres instead of a job change, then wouldn't that be legit too. I think I just confused myself.
By the way, warrior skill...warrior dressphere...same thing.(sort of)
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
From Basch' demonstration, we can tell that Quickenings can destroy things outside of a controlled battle so they aren't solely game mechanics. However seeing as how they're never shown again other than when you use them kind of makes things confusing. I think I'm getting this point somewhat. Ashe could use quickenings anytime she wanted while Yuna has to use dresspheres to do battle. However what would decide a win. If quickenings are innate abilities then Ashe could just obliterate Yuna with a chain. If dresspheres are recognized as just spheres instead of a job change, then wouldn't that be legit too. I think I just confused myself.
Indeed, it's pretty confusing. But Basch's Quickening could be a hint. Quickenings DO EXIST, if they aren't part of the story line and they aren't explained with details doesn't mean in any way they don't exist.
Originally posted by GrieverSquall
Yeah and Tidus kicking a ball and then explodes. That's the same I've said, special animations to look cool, that also happens in Anime series. But if they can do it or not it's another story, they can. The abilities such as the Quickenings doesn't need to be into the story line to exist. I don't think that the Quickenings would have been important to the story of Final Fantasy XII, that's why the developers didn't focus on that, why they would explain the Quickenings story? Or Lion Heart's story? For what? Unlike in FFX-2 where the Dresspheres are basically the story. Plus, they are no mechanics, the Licence Board and Dresspheres are mechanic.
We've been over this before, GrieverSquall. If Lionheart is something Squall is capable of performing then he can fly. But Squall can't fly. Thus, Lionheart is nothing more than a cool animation thrown in without worrying about whether it was realistic or not. Games do it all the time. Especially turn based RPGs.