Hulk stopped Juggernaut: Gage talks...

Originally posted by Hercules
Juggernaut though is highly unlikely to come up against a foe who is more powerful than Cytorrak in his travels though, so for all intents and purposes he is unstoppable by a PHYSICAL force.

Obivously there are entities and abstracts a lot more powerful than Cytorrak who could not only halt him but blink him out of exsistance but hes hardly likely to be duking it out with one.

Originally posted by Newjak
At the same time Hulk isn't really the strongest there is.

I mean let's be serious you have to go seriously high up in the Universal pecking order to go above an Elder God like Cyttorak.

I know that but Trickster's insane zealotry is really irritating (especially since he never bothers to give evidence)

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I know that but Trickster's insane zealotry is really irritating (especially since he never bothers to give evidence)

Makes me feel like I finally am getting the Juggernaut message across 😄

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I know that but Trickster's really irritating

Co-signed.

Mother****ers..... durbeware I do give evidence. Just not when dealing with fanboys. It's not my fault the characters I'm usually defending have big ass respect threads.

and thanks, Newjak. durflowers

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Mother****ers..... durbeware I do give evidence. Just not when dealing with fanboys. It's not my fault the characters I'm usually defending have big ass respect threads.

and thanks, Newjak. durflowers

Originally posted by Newjak
At the same time Hulk isn't really the strongest there is.

I mean let's be serious you have to go seriously high up in the Universal pecking order to go above an Elder God like Cyttorak.

but that is besides the point. there's the simple fact that War Hulk did it. that cement seems to retard juggernaut, even if for a short while.
he quite obviously isn't "unstoppable" nor is he indestructible, just highly durable and powerful.

even then, it doesn't really come to xxx >> Cyttorak, in order to physically best the juggernaut. he is an avatar true, but that doesn't mean he has the sum total of Cyttorak's power. he has a fraction.

and before the confused get started on the "a fraction of infinity still equals infinity" a) no it doesn't, you need to learn to deal with the concept of infinity, there are orders of infinity and great subtleties besides b) anyone with the powers of a whole universe/dimension, has by definition a limit to their powers and c) that limit is beyond meaningful quantification and thus is referred to as 'infinite'.

:. Hulk's infinite energies may still pale in the presence of Galactus, it doesn't mean that Hulk can hope to fight these abstracts, since they may have energies several billions of times more 'infinite' than his.

Originally posted by janus77
Savage Hulk has overpowered Elder Gods. there's scans of his confrontation with The Gardener.

but that is besides the point. there's the simple fact that War Hulk did it. that cement seems to retard juggernaut, even if for a short while.
he quite obviously isn't "unstoppable" nor is he indestructible, just highly durable and powerful.

even then, it doesn't really come to xxx >> Cyttorak, in order to physically best the juggernaut. he is an avatar true, but that doesn't mean he has the sum total of Cyttorak's power. he has a fraction.

and before the confused get started on the "a fraction of infinity still equals infinity" a) no it doesn't, you need to learn to deal with the concept of infinity, there are orders of infinity and great subtleties besides b) anyone with the powers of a whole universe/dimension, has by definition a limit to their powers and c) that limit is beyond meaningful quantification and thus is referred to as 'infinite'.

:. Hulk's infinite energies may still pale in the presence of Galactus, it doesn't mean that Hulk can hope to fight these abstracts, since they may have energies several billions of times more 'infinite' than his.

And Juggernaut does have low points but then again so does Hulk, python anyone.

Juggernaut like Hulk can sommon more power from Cyttorak based on how bad he wants something.

we don't know if he can "summon" more power. we know that Cyttorak can grant him more, but that's if Cyttorak feels like doing so... as juggernaut found out the first time he faced Hulk in the WWH arc.

more to the point, Juggernaut was stopped, for however brief a period of time, and thus the "unstoppable" claim is not true.

it also sheds light on the previous stoppage - War Hulk hurling juggernaut about like a toy - physical force. something that Hulk would always be able to do, given the will/anger...

still, they've played this well... juggernaut wasn't hurt and we're still waiting for a proper fight between these two.

Originally posted by janus77
we don't know if he can "summon" more power. we know that Cyttorak can grant him more, but that's if Cyttorak feels like doing so... as juggernaut found out the first time he faced Hulk in the WWH arc.

more to the point, Juggernaut was stopped, for however brief a period of time, and thus the "unstoppable" claim is not true.

it also sheds light on the previous stoppage - War Hulk hurling juggernaut about like a toy - physical force. something that Hulk would always be able to do, given the will/anger...

still, they've played this well... juggernaut wasn't hurt and we're still waiting for a proper fight between these two.

He said that Cain had a weak reason therefore was weak. Basically Cain gets stronger the more he wants something. So yes he can tap into more power.

He wasn't stopped he was redirected downward. So instead of pushing Hulk Cain was pushing the ground. There was no stopping at all.

And WAR HULK has celestial tech which helped negate some of Cain's power. Nothing special about it 😬

Originally posted by Newjak
Except as Cyttorak said "I didn't limit your power you did."

He said that Cain had a weak reason therefore was weak. Basically Cain gets stronger the more he wants something. So yes he can tap into more power.

He wasn't stopped he was redirected downward. So instead of pushing Hulk Cain was pushing the ground. There was no stopping at all.

And WAR HULK has celestial tech which helped negate some of Cain's power. Nothing special about it 😬

Hulk stood infront of juggernaut and juggernaut could not get passed him. that's stopping his forward momentum. the fact that it results in downward pressure is neither here nor there.

as I said a day ago, it's reminiscent of what happened with juggernaut when he was hit with the god blast of Thor's. the ground gave way.

as to the "I didn't limit you..." that's not the same as saying "you have ALL my power", it's been stated often enough that juggernaut is an avatar not a manifestation of Cyttorak. unless shown otherwise, the assumption remains that Cyttorak, wherever he is, requires some of his own powers to sustain himself and so cannot give juggernaut 100% of his powers.

regarding the Celestial Tech stuff, it didn't negate anything, it merely amplified The Hulk's strength. show me where it says it did any such thing as negating the magics? that's just baseless rationalisation and in the face of a character who has - in the same comic, by Apocalypse himself - been said to generate energies perhaps sufficient to trouble The Celestials.

Originally posted by janus77
lol, again... as the writer's said too - momentarily stopped - redirecting it into the ground.

Hulk stood infront of juggernaut and juggernaut could not get passed him. that's stopping his forward momentum. the fact that it results in downward pressure is neither here nor there.

as I said a day ago, it's reminiscent of what happened with juggernaut when he was hit with the god blast of Thor's. the ground gave way.

as to the "I didn't limit you..." that's not the same as saying "you have ALL my power", it's been stated often enough that juggernaut is an avatar not a manifestation of Cyttorak. unless shown otherwise, the assumption remains that Cyttorak, wherever he is, requires some of his own powers to sustain himself and so cannot give juggernaut 100% of his powers.

regarding the Celestial Tech stuff, it didn't negate anything, it merely amplified The Hulk's strength. show me where it says it did any such thing as negating the magics? that's just baseless rationalisation and in the face of a character who has - in the same comic, by Apocalypse himself - been said to generate energies perhaps sufficient to trouble The Celestials.

The Problem with your analogy is that Cyttorak lives in the Crimson Cosmos where he is like God and wields infinite energy so Juggernaut can always will himself more just like Hulk can rage more strength.

Let me see where I got it from. Cain was pushing Hulk back until Hulk started to Glow green from the CELESTIAL TECH. Once he started to glow then Cain was stopped. Seeing as it is confirmed Cain can get stronger the more he wants something the only thing there that could possibly over power him was the tech.

Originally posted by Newjak
If Cain is still moving in a direction whether it be forward down backwards or up he isn't stopped as being stopped means no momentum but Juggs still had it.

The Problem with your analogy is that Cyttorak lives in the Crimson Cosmos where he is like God and wields infinite energy so Juggernaut can always will himself more just like Hulk can rage more strength.

Let me see where I got it from. Cain was pushing Hulk back until Hulk started to Glow green from the CELESTIAL TECH. Once he started to glow then Cain was stopped. Seeing as it is confirmed Cain can get stronger the more he wants something the only thing there that could possibly over power him was the tech.

like if I stood infront of a charging five year old and placed my palm on his head, extending out my arm... he could keep moving, my arm my wobble, but he's not going to get passed me.

as for juggernaut's power, reread what I wrote, I feel you haven't really understood.

re the Celestial Tech thing - again, you've not proved or even given reasonable grounds for supposing anything like what you're suggesting.

Originally posted by janus77
as I said in another post, I wasn't talking about an absolute stop but comparing who is the more powerful. Hulk didn't redirect juggernaut by applying force from a side, but by standing in front of him and applying greater force against him.

like if I stood infront of a charging five year old and placed my palm on his head, extending out my arm... he could keep moving, my arm my wobble, but he's not going to get passed me.

as for juggernaut's power, reread what I wrote, I feel you haven't really understood.

re the Celestial Tech thing - again, you've not proved or even given reasonable grounds for supposing anything like what you're suggesting.

I understand what you meant but understand this the only way Cain will never have enough power is if he is going against someone Greater than Cyttorak. Which would be a greater infinite because Cyttorak is infinite in the Crimson Cosmos.

And the proof is on the panel. If Hulk overcame Juggernaut purely physically why was he GLOWING?

throw a ball against a wall, ball bounces. the wall's stronger. throw a ball in the air, hit it at an angle with a coin and it will alter the flight of the ball. see the difference?
juggernaut's forward momentum was overcome by Hulk's power.

for juggernaut and Cyttorak to exist as independent entities, juggernaut cannot have 100% of Cyttorak's power. moreover, it's long been accepted that Juggernaut is an avatar and a mere fraction of Cyttorak's power.

if it was Hulk versus Cyttorak, but a purely physical battle, then you could say that Hulk would need to be greater than Cyttorak to win. but it isn't, thus this formulation is always erroneous.

also, Hulk has bested Elders, out muscling the Gardener and The High Evolutionary.

and re the War Hulk thing, remember he was siphoning energies from two universes. that glow was probably a visual cue to that fact. showing how War Hulk was pulling in more energies, to boost his strength.

Originally posted by janus77
throw a ball against a wall, ball bounces. the wall's stronger. throw a ball in the air, hit it at an angle with a coin and it will alter the flight of the ball. see the difference?
juggernaut's forward momentum was overcome by Hulk's power.

for juggernaut and Cyttorak to exist as independent entities, juggernaut cannot have 100% of Cyttorak's power. moreover, it's long been accepted that Juggernaut is an avatar and a mere fraction of Cyttorak's power.

if it was Hulk versus Cyttorak, but a purely physical battle, then you could say that Hulk would need to be greater than Cyttorak to win. but it isn't, thus this formulation is always erroneous.

also, Hulk has bested Elders, out muscling the Gardener and The High Evolutionary.

and re the War Hulk thing, remember he was siphoning energies from two universes. that glow was probably a visual cue to that fact. showing how War Hulk was pulling in more energies, to boost his strength.

But Juggernaut's power is apparently dependent on his will to win. So that means he can dynamically increase his powers just by willing it.

Gardener isn't much of a feat.....but the HE? 🤨 You seriously think Hulk beat the HE legitimately? HE wanted Hulk to smash his armor.

Like I said back at the beginning,

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
In any case, War Hulk stopping Juggernaut is not a feat for Hulk or one he can replicate. It's a feat for Apocalypse and his celestial technology that enhanced Hulk.

Apocalypse's tech enabled that win, whether Hulk supplied the power or not.

Plus, you can't seriously believe Apoc was serious when he said WarHulk could fight the celestials.....shocklaugh

lol, I guess you've been arguing with DevilHulk too long. you're resembling him 😐.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
But Juggernaut's power is apparently dependent on his will to win. So that means he can dynamically increase his powers just by willing it.

Cool.

Guess how Hulk's powers work 😐

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Gardener isn't much of a feat.....but the HE? 🤨 You seriously think Hulk beat the HE legitimately? HE wanted Hulk to smash his armor.

🤨

Originally posted by janus77
as I said in another post, I wasn't talking about an absolute stop but comparing who is The more powerful. Hulk didn't redirect juggernaut by applying force from a side, but by standing in front of him and applying greater force against him.

That doesn't really hold true, redirecting mass isn't about having greater counter force. Its about having just enough force to redirect it. They don't have to be stronger then someone to redirect there charge, check The akido expert who would could (not always) toss The charging bench press champ aside.

Yes it is true hulk stood in front of juggs, yet at The same time he redirect it downward, (which is why The mansion started to give way).

When Juggernaut regained himself, (which at that point Juggernaut had made The comment about their dance) from his initial charge, and started to push Hulk once again (evidence by Hulks foot sliding back, you cant deny that).

Professor X interrupted Juggernaut, and Hulk wisely sidestepped and pushed Juggs on his back and let him go. Now you could say, Hulk could have gotten stronger and stalemated juggs, in the same accord I could also say Juggernaut could have gotten stronger and pushed Hulk more, we will never know so to say either argument would not be 100% true, all we do not is that, Juggernaut did push Hulk's foot back, if ever so slightly, which is what I think the writer and the artist wanted to get across.

I don't mind saying Hulk stopped Juggernauts initial charge, but you have to be willing to say that after Juggernaut regained himself, He was pushing Hulk back.

And by Pushing Hulk back from a standstill (because remember he stopped his initial charge) Juggernaut didn't have to power of The enchantment on his side, He had to straight up OVERPOWER hulk with pure strength, again, their is on panel evidence to support this also.