Where are people getting this from?

Originally posted by janus77
my previous post wasn't aimed at what you wrote, it's a general gripe, just posts that I've seen and wondered "wtf? .." but never bothered engaging with.

as to the "Hulk wins cause he is strong" ... essentially that's true. he is ridiculously - godly - strong. and all his attendant attributes are powered by that, so same goes for durability, regeneration etc etc ...

Superman wins because he's superman
flash because he speedblitzes ...

it's when an interesting versus thread is created, that arguments can evolve to demonstrate creative application of established powers, comparative debating abilities and superior comic knowledge.

Hulk v BlackBolt could be one of those situations (for Black Bolt) if people weren't stuck in a rut with "matter manipulation" when that's been shown to fail with weaker Hulks ... to which the comeback is, "they weren't as powerful as Black Bolt" ... which really isn't saying much as Hulk wasn't as powerful as he presently is... see goes nowhere. if anything it's in Hulk's favour as he's demonstrated resistance/recovery from such forms of attack at a level, whereas we've not seen BB do that to anyone as powerful as Hulk.

Strength alone doesn't win Hulk battles against beings who are far more versatile than him though is the crux of it for me.

His healing factor, durabilty and in some instances his fighting skill have been a major factor in him overcoming his foes, withstanding that whisper for instance was a durabilty feat and pivotal in him winning that fight.

I like people to expand a little on their reasons and not dismiss evidence with "cause Hulk stronger".

I agree with you on the matter manipulators but its an easy comeback, as others have resisted GG in the past and Glazier was a one shot and a weaker Hulk resisted GG, so as it can be argued that if a weak Hulk can resist it then a much stronger incarnation can withstand BB.

It can also be argued that because GG couldn't stop a weaker Hulk then hes just a poor manipulator and no where near BB's level.

There are two sides to everything and with comics it is quite literally, if the writer wants it to happen it happens, its what makes debating comic book characters so diverse as a lot of stuff is open to interpretation.

To use a bad pun, nothing is set in stone... 😆

As far as turning back from stone; everyone did after a certain period of time. EVERYONE 'healed' from it, so to speak. The Hulk just did so faster because he heals faster.

Originally posted by Hercules

It can also be argued that because GG couldn't stop a weaker Hulk then hes just a poor manipulator and no where near BB's level.

There are two sides to everything and with comics it is quite literally, if the writer wants it to happen it happens, its what makes debating comic book characters so diverse as a lot of stuff is open to interpretation.

To use a bad pun, nothing is set in stone... 😆

That argument could be used if you were going to have Grey Hulk vs BB. Obvoulsy in that case it would apply because as you said in comparsion GG is much weaker to BB.

I dont see how that argument would apply to an upgraded Hulk. Its like saying somebody who can beat up two people easily while suffering from the flu cant beat up four people in full health. It seems illogical because logic dictates if he can withstand a certain type of attack in a weakened state he should be able to take more of that attack in a stronger state.

Originally posted by Soljer
As far as turning back from stone; everyone did after a certain period of time. EVERYONE 'healed' from it, so to speak. The Hulk just did so faster because he heals faster.

I dont think they healed from it....the transmutation ran out. Im pretty sure he can turn wood into stone and it would turn back eventually. Wood doesnt "heal".

Originally posted by Alfheim
That argument could be used if you were going to have Grey Hulk vs BB. Obvoulsy in that case it would apply because as you said in comparsion GG is much weaker to BB.

I dont see how that argument would apply to an upgraded Hulk. Its like saying somebody who can beat up two people easily while suffering from the flu cant beat up four people in full health. It seems illogical because logic dictates if he can withstand a certain type of attack in a weakened state he should be able to take more of that attack in a stronger state.

No, think about it, the argument can work both ways, A weak Hulk proved too strong ulitmatley for GG.

One point of view is, well a weak Hulk was breaking out of matter manipulation, think what the strongest Hulk ever could do!

Another point of view is GG is a very poor matter manipulator cause he wasn't powerful enough to stop one of the weakest incarnations of the Hulk.

Both these arguments are being used throughout this thread by one side or the other, one person may percieve something one way, another person another.

Your looking at it from the first point of view, that a stronger hulk will take more of that attack but the other person is using the logic that GG was a wuss in the first place and the fact he couldn't stop a weaker Hulk proves that.

Neither argument is wrong, neither is "illogical" as yes a stronger Hulk will have better resistance to that attack and probably wouldn't even be fazed by Grey Gargoyle but there is also the school of thought that if a being ten times more powerful than him tried it on the stronger hulk, the outcome could be different.

Its looking at the scenario from different angles, thats all and thats what most of this thread has been about.

Originally posted by Hercules
No, think about it, the argument can work both ways, A weak Hulk proved too strong ulitmatley for GG.

One point of view is, well a weak Hulk was breaking out of matter manipulation, think what the strongest Hulk ever could do!

Another point of view is GG is a very poor matter manipulator cause he wasn't powerful enough to stop one of the weakest incarnations of the Hulk.

Both these arguments are being used throughout this thread by one side or the other, one person may percieve something one way, another person another.

Your looking at it from the first point of view, that a stronger hulk will take more of that attack but the other person is using the logic that GG was a wuss in the first place and the fact he couldn't stop a weaker Hulk proves that.

Neither argument is wrong, neither is "illogical" as yes a stronger Hulk will have better resistance to that attack and probably wouldn't even be fazed by Grey Gargoyle but there is also the school of thought that if a being ten times more powerful than him tried it on the stronger hulk, the outcome could be different.

Its looking at the scenario from different angles, thats all and thats what most of this thread has been about.

Wellllllll...yeah. In all fairness you could use that argument...but the upgraded point of view seems to be the most likely.

This depends though. How much greater is BB to GG in terms of matter transmutation? How much is WWH greater than Grey Hulk? Lets say we could calculate it and the WWH power increase were the same as BBs superiority to GG then we could argue that the upgrade is the most likely conclusion.

Ok do we know for certain? No, but we do know that WWH does seem to be much greater than Grey Hulk. I need confirmation on this but did Svage Hulk take a scream from BB and get Koed? Ok if this true then it is logical to assume that an upgraded Hulk could withstand it.

Hmmm I never realised Black Bolt was so powerful. I thought he was just a scream that had the same effect as Banshee's. Very interesting.

Medusa pics would be good 😊

Originally posted by Alfheim
Wellllllll...yeah. In all fairness you could use that argument...but the upgraded point of view seems to be the most likely.

This depends though. How much greater is BB to GG in terms of matter transmutation? How much is WWH greater than Grey Hulk? Lets say we could calculate it and the WWH power increase were the same as BBs superiority to GG then we could argue that the upgrade is the most likely conclusion.

Ok do we know for certain? No, but we do know that WWH does seem to be much greater than Grey Hulk. I need confirmation on this but did Svage Hulk take a scream from BB and get Koed? Ok if this true then it is logical to assume that an upgraded Hulk could withstand it.

Savage Hulk took a whisper and got KO'd as far as I'm aware, which yes shows how much the current Hulk has grown in power.

Yes you can and people are making the argument that if lets say current Hulk is ten times stronger than Grey Hulk (I'm not saying he is just ten times stronger, this is for arguments sake) and BB is ten times the matter manipulator that GG is (again just for arguments sake) then the Grey Hulk vs GG fight is a really good indicator of how it would go down and Hulk would resist it.

However the other camp could say well BB is 12 times as powerful as GG and would be able to affect even current uber Hulk.

Thing is, we just don't know for sure and both parties could be right, what we do know is this Hulk, beat BB, how we arn't sure but he beat him.

The variables are, did he use the scream? did Hulk resist the scream? did he try and turn him to stone? did Hulk resist this? etc etc.

For all we know Hulk could have used the old "whats that over there" line and produced a Bugs Bunny style Acme sledge hammer and hit him over the head with it.

The Hulk fans have actually got one hell of an argument for him resisiting BB's matter manipulation and/or scream, cause Hulk was the guy left standing.

The other argument is, it was PIS and BB didn't scream or use the full extent of his powers.

Until we get to see the fight on panel in a flashback or something, the debate will run and run.

Originally posted by Hercules
Savage Hulk took a whisper and got KO'd as far as I'm aware, which yes shows how much the current Hulk has grown in power.

Yes you can and people are making the argument that if lets say current Hulk is ten times stronger than Grey Hulk (I'm not saying he is just ten times stronger, this is for arguments sake) and BB is ten times the matter manipulator that GG is (again just for arguments sake) then the Grey Hulk vs GG fight is a really good indicator of how it would go down and Hulk would resist it.

However the other camp could say well BB is 12 times as powerful as GG and would be able to affect even current uber Hulk.

Thing is, we just don't know for sure and both parties could be right, what we do know is this Hulk, beat BB, how we arn't sure but he beat him.

The variables are, did he use the scream? did Hulk resist the scream? did he try and turn him to stone? did Hulk resist this? etc etc.

For all we know Hulk could have used the old "whats that over there" line and produced a Bugs Bunny style Acme sledge hammer and hit him over the head with it.

The Hulk fans have actually got one hell of an argument for him resisiting BB's matter manipulation and/or scream, cause Hulk was the guy left standing.

The other argument is, it was PIS and BB didn't scream or use the full extent of his powers.

Until we get to see the fight on panel in a flashback or something, the debate will run and run.

Ok I totally agree. Since we are lacking in information we cant say for sure which one is the most logical argument. Therefore both arguments are valid.

Grey Gargoyle doesn't manipulate matter in the same way that Black Bolt does, I wish people would stop calling him an MM. He petrifies people for a limited amount of time and has no control over his power at all.

Originally posted by Soljer
Hmmm....

Captain America's beaten the Hulk.

Cap was just better than the Hulk that time around?

Cap > Hulk?

😬.

Let's see Cap beat WW Hulk.

Originally posted by SouthSpawn
Let's see Cap beat WW Hulk.

O --- Your head