Originally posted by psycho gundamHe is Invunerable, its his powerset since he was created,
he's highly resistant, not invulnerableshatterstar cut his eyes using a techno-magically forged sword, and thanos does matter cause when it comes to ridiculous durability/damage soak, his name always comes up. odin spanked him
Key word a techno-magic not a normal sword which was held by someone whos strength hurt juggs but a magic one
Lol at h1 and Colossus Big C.
And another thing: This "Odin is only x tons strong w/o amping" nonsense needs to stop, too. The Odin Force is Odin's source of power as well as his life force. It's not like some energy field he consciously taps into to get stronger or more durable. He's always > Heralds in terms of strength and durability, handbooks be damned. On panel feats show him consistently operating physically beyond Thor and the like. If you remove the Odin Force, he's dead or severely weakened (and even while weakened he one shot Ulik, something Thor can't do), so he always has it.
Unless someone can prove that Odin is significantly weaker than Thor in the physical sense and must amp his strength to a level to match or exceed him through on panel evidence, there's no reason to believe that Odin is inferior in the physical sense.
As far as this thread goes, Odin beats the shit out of Cain.
Originally posted by psycho gundam
yeah well, depending on who you talk to the infamous issue where thor had to resort to negating juggernaut's force field to damage him is partially retconned (the way juggernaut's powers work), but then you have hulk empowered by apocalypse taking a shit on all of that.odin messed thanos up, and there is literally pages on this site devoted to that topic so no real point in elaborating on that now, anyway, i'm confident odin can channel a shitload of power to his physical might and dispatch juggernaut if he really wants to.
thor with odin's power would eat juggernaut for breakfast onslaught style (if you think otherwise bruh, come at me), odin would do the same. odin-force amps physical stats by default
War Hulk never put a scratch on Juggs.
Odin never put a scratch on Thanos with any purely physical blows.
Again you have no proof that Odin has the physical strength to hurt or even tickle Juggs.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Lol at h1 and Colossus Big C.And another thing: This "Odin is only x tons strong w/o amping" nonsense needs to stop, too. The Odin Force is Odin's source of power as well as his life force. It's not like some energy field he consciously taps into to get stronger or more durable. He's always > Heralds in terms of strength and durability, handbooks be damned. On panel feats show him consistently operating physically beyond Thor and the like. If you remove the Odin Force, he's dead or severely weakened (and even while weakened he one shot Ulik, something Thor can't do), so he always has it.
Unless someone can prove that Odin is significantly weaker than Thor in the physical sense and must amp his strength to a level to match or exceed him through on panel evidence, there's no reason to believe that Odin is inferior in the physical sense.
As far as this thread goes, Odin beats the shit out of Cain.
This.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Lol at h1 and Colossus Big C.And another thing: This "Odin is only x tons strong w/o amping" nonsense needs to stop, too. The Odin Force is Odin's source of power as well as his life force. It's not like some energy field he consciously taps into to get stronger or more durable. He's always > Heralds in terms of strength and durability, handbooks be damned. On panel feats show him consistently operating physically beyond Thor and the like. If you remove the Odin Force, he's dead or severely weakened (and even while weakened he one shot Ulik, something Thor can't do), so he always has it.
Unless someone can prove that Odin is significantly weaker than Thor in the physical sense and must amp his strength to a level to match or exceed him through on panel evidence, there's no reason to believe that Odin is inferior in the physical sense.
As far as this thread goes, Odin beats the shit out of Cain.
Comics never showed Odin beyond Thor in physical strength.
But let's say Odin is stronger than Thor.
If Thor with all his might can't register any damage on Juggs with Mjolnir (which is many times greater than Thor punching with his fists) then clearly it would take MUCH MUCH more force just to register any damage on Juggs. How do you know that Odin has the physical strength to do this when he has never shown it?
The physical strength of many many times a Thor hitting with all his might with Mjolnir.
Originally posted by h1a8war hulk was going to put a big scratch where juggernaut's head connects to his torso with the same power that overcame his vaunted irresistible (note: another absolute word describing juggernaut's power) momentum. go figure
Comics never showed Odin beyond Thor in physical strength.But let's say Odin is stronger than Thor.
If Thor with all his might can't register any damage on Juggs with Mjolnir (which is many times greater than Thor punching with his fists) then clearly it would take MUCH MUCH more force just to register any damage on Juggs. How do you know that Odin has the physical strength to do this when he has never shown it?
The physical strength of many many times a Thor hitting with all his might with Mjolnir.
odin just has to hit juggernaut with more power than what cytorrak is pumping out to him + what's stored within him.
Originally posted by h1a8
Comics never showed Odin beyond Thor in physical strength.But let's say Odin is stronger than Thor.
If Thor with all his might can't register any damage on Juggs with Mjolnir (which is many times greater than Thor punching with his fists) then clearly it would take MUCH MUCH more force just to register any damage on Juggs. How do you know that Odin has this physical strength to do this when he has never shown it?
They have. Thor with a minute portion of the Odin Force beat Ulik the worse he has even done while incredibly pissed. Fight lasted maybe a few pages and Thor hit him a handful of times with Mjolnir. Conversely, a very weakened Odin one shot dismissed Ulik. I know you, somehow, have this skewed view on Ulik and think he's like this weak guy based on his showings (which is...odd), but Thor in the physical sense cannot just one shot that troll, not without extreme circumstances. Odin did so without much effort.
So, yeah, Odin is stronger than Thor due to the Odin Force, which he's had since...well, depending on what Asgard creation story is canon, since he was the All-Father.
A weakened Odin beating the crap out of Ulik worse than a raging Thor with the Odin Force + Mjolnir is enough for me.
Originally posted by psycho gundam
^ the destroyer and bor were also examples of odin-force enhancing durability and power
Very true.
The remnant of the Odin Force Thor possessed was enough to keep him alive from a single blow that would have outright killed Thor without the OF. And Thor endured a point blank assault from the Destroyer that has killed Thor (again without the OF) before.
And Odin Force/Relaunch Thor pales in comparison to Odin. And in neither of those instances did Thor have to "amp" his durability or will his strength to increase. It was already heightened by default, destroying the notion that one has to consciously or deliberate amp various statistics in order to be equal or beyond a High Herald level in terms of strength and durability. Hell, Heimdall, who's probably High Meta normally, with a portion of the Odin Force no sold as Mjolnir strike to the dome.
And Odin is going to weather Juggernaut's blows far far far FAR better than vice versa.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
They have. Thor with a minute portion of the Odin Force beat Ulik the worse he has even done while incredibly pissed. Fight lasted maybe a few pages and Thor hit him a handful of times with Mjolnir. Conversely, a very weakened Odin one shot dismissed Ulik. I know you, somehow, have this skewed view on Ulik and think he's like this weak guy based on his showings (which is...odd), but Thor in the physical sense cannot just one shot that troll, not without extreme circumstances. Odin did so without much effort.So, yeah, Odin is stronger than Thor due to the Odin Force, which he's had since...well, depending on what Asgard creation story is canon, since he was the All-Father.
A weakened Odin beating the crap out of Ulik worse than a raging Thor with the Odin Force + Mjolnir is enough for me.
Here is my rebuttal to your argument.
Thor has one shot Ulik as well. So that's kills your argument dead. But to add more murder to it, Ulik is around Things and Colossus level. If Thor hit any of these characters (including Ulik) with his mightiest slam then each of them will be koed at the least.
Why did you try to prove that Odin is stronger than Thor when I clearly made it irrelevant when I said you must prove that Odin can hit with forces many times greater than Thor's mightiest slams.
For example, if Thor's mighty slam attack doesn't register any damage then my guess would be that you would need an attack that is at least 10x more powerful just to register a little damage. So we are talking about 10x more than Thor's mightiest slam just to get a little damage going. Juggs has a HF so for practical reasons we need at least 20x more than Thor's mightiest slam just to damage Juggs enough to begin to win the fight. Odin with all his glory has never shown the strength level of 20x Thor or even 10x Thor.
So again, Odin hasn't been proven the strength necessary to bypass Juggs durability.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Very true.The remnant of the Odin Force Thor possessed was enough to keep him alive from a single blow that would have outright killed Thor without the OF. And Thor endured a point blank assault from the Destroyer that has killed Thor (again without the OF) before.
And Odin Force/Relaunch Thor pales in comparison to Odin. And in neither of those instances did Thor have to "amp" his durability or will his strength to increase. It was already heightened by default, destroying the notion that one has to consciously or deliberate amp various statistics in order to be equal or beyond a High Herald level in terms of strength and durability. Hell, Heimdall, who's probably High Meta normally, with a portion of the Odin Force no sold as Mjolnir strike to the dome.
And Odin is going to weather Juggernaut's blows far far far FAR better than vice versa.
But Odin didn't no sell Thor's Mjolnir strike to the face which counts more since it is Odin we are talking about.
Originally posted by h1a8
But Odin didn't no sell Thor's Mjolnir strike to the face which counts more since it is Odin we are talking about.
Plenty of people have been hurt by a Mjolnir wielding Thor.
A Mjolnir wielding Thor > Juggernaut in damage output.
Thor beat the shit out of Juggernaut with his bare fists.
Juggernaut has been hurt plenty of times in the past by forces far less than Odin.
Originally posted by psycho gundam
yeah well, depending on who you talk to the infamous issue where thor had to resort to negating juggernaut's force field to damage him is partially retconned (the way juggernaut's powers work), but then you have hulk empowered by apocalypse taking a shit on all of that.odin messed thanos up, and there is literally pages on this site devoted to that topic so no real point in elaborating on that now, anyway, i'm confident odin can channel a shitload of power to his physical might and dispatch juggernaut if he really wants to.
thor with odin's power would eat juggernaut for breakfast onslaught style (if you think otherwise bruh, come at me), odin would do the same. odin-force amps physical stats by default
The Thor issue didn't really retcon anything. His been hurt plenty of times and his force field has been referenced as the source of his durability since the early days.
As a matter of fact, if I was a Juggernaut fan, DeFalco would be my hero as his the reason why the force field is even held in such high esteem.
The biggest problem I have with Cain is the infinite fallacy arguments. By that I mean, you might have a scene of him shrugging off Colossus' blow and that's somehow an indication of him being immune to physical damage.
He was once said to be nigh invulnerable even without his force field by Beast, but the same has been said about many characters. The one issue that I can think of that supports him being noticeably above other High Heralds in durability is the Thor Eighty Day tie-in. And there are complications with that one.
Originally posted by psycho gundam
he's highly resistant, not invulnerableshatterstar cut his eyes using a techno-magically forged sword, and thanos does matter cause when it comes to ridiculous durability/damage soak, his name always comes up. odin spanked him
I know Shatterstar's sword was forged in another dimension or whatever but was it ever said to have unusual mystical properties that would somehow excuse this incident? I don't know much about the character.