Deadshot v.s. Captain America

Originally posted by namorsubby
many people faster than cap who have been shown to be able to react to bullets can easily be hit by deadshot.

example:

captain boomerang can react well enough to fired bullets to deflect each individual one with a single paper clip(he's a super-speedster), but as it has been shown, he still can seem to manage to get out of the way of deadshot's gun.lol

edit:

peak humans evade and react to bullets because of the shooters who's moves they anticipate. deadshot is literally in a league of his own when it comes to shooters

Wow I just caught that edit...

Maybe some do, but Cap dodges bullets because he can see them in flight. There are scans floating around somewhere.

Cap FTW

Cap wins.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Wow I just caught that edit...

Maybe some do, but Cap dodges bullets because he can see them in flight. There are scans floating around somewhere.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Dude they're REALLY close to each other. The guys start farther away than that in forum fights and Boomerang DID dodge the bullets so it's not really any indication that Cap won't be able to dodge Deadshot. What it is though, is a very impressive speed/reflex feat. Now I'm kinda torn on who takes this...

cap b dodged those bullets because deadshot wasn't even trying to hit him. that is obvious is it not?

edit:
i think the fact that he was so close is the significant factor here. this super-speedster was inches away and still couldn't get to deadshot before he'd be able to put a hole in him. that was really my main point in showing it

Originally posted by namorsubby
there's not a slither of a chance that he can see them and react to them faster than captain boomerang, so it doesn't matter

Originally posted by namorsubby
cap b dodged those bullets because deadshot wasn't even trying to hit him. that is obvious is it not?

edit:
i think the fact that he was so close is the significant factor here. this super-speedster was inches away and still couldn't get to deadshot before he'd be able to put a hole in him. that was really my main point in showing it

DS interrupted a speedster's rush, that's impressive but it's not too uncommon overall. The scans clearly demonstrate that Cap won't be blitzing DS, but they in no way indicate that Cap would be unable to dodge DS's bullets.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Cap B DID react to the bullets though, DS missed twice at point blank range. Unless you have some proof to support the notion that DS's bullet's travel faster than the bullets Steve's dodged/reacted to in the past it's still well within the realm of possibility for Cap to either dodge them or get his shield up to block them.

He dodged the bullets because he's fast enough to dodge bullets.

DS interrupted a speedster's rush, that's impressive but it's not too uncommon overall. The scans clearly demonstrate that Cap won't be blitzing DS, but they in no way indicate that Cap would be unable to dodge DS's bullets.

dodging bullets is more than reacting to a bullet's speed, as deadshot has shown. it has a lot to do with just how fast the shooter can react, and how quickly and accurately he can place bullets in your path. deadshot has proved this.he's ten times faster than your average marksman, which is why many who have been shown to casually evade bullets have been hit or could easily be hit by him.

edit:

i'm sorry, but when you say "deadshot missed twice at point blank range" it seems as if you are implicating that he was actually attempting to hit him and simply couldn't. is that so?

deadshot could've hit him, that is obvious. being fast enough to dodge bullets is one thing, being fast enough to dodge bullets shot by a serious deadshot is an entirely different thing

Captain America ftw.

Originally posted by namorsubby
kinda does.

dodging bullets is more than reacting to a bullet's speed, as deadshot has shown. it has a lot to do with just how fast the shooter can react, and how quickly and accurately he can place bullets in your path. deadshot has proved this.he's ten times faster than your average marksman, which is why many who have been shown to casually evade bullets have been hit or could easily be hit by him.

edit:

i'm sorry, but when you say "deadshot missed twice at point blank range" it seems as if you are implicating that he was actually attempting to hit him and simply couldn't. is that so?

deadshot could've hit him, that is obvious. being fast enough to dodge bullets is one thing, being fast enough to dodge bullets shot by a serious deadshot is an entirely different thing

Originally posted by darthgoober
Unless Deadshot can control his bullets after they're fired, his own personal speed will in no way help him shoot Cap. Once the bullet's out of the barrel and Cap see's it, it's just a matter of him raising his shield or getting out of the way. Deadshot can try to anticipate Cap's moves and shoot where Cap will be(try being the operative word there), but Cap will still see those bullets and dodge or block them. All Deadpool's own personal speed will really contribute is increasing the rate in which Deadpool pulls the trigger and making sure the gun is pointed at Cap AT THE TIME IT'S FIRED. But since Cap can handle automatic gunfire and will be able to get out of the way of the bullet's after they're fired, DS's still not likely to hit him.

if the point you're trying to make here was so, then the very concept behind deadshot would not work. deadshot can hit those guys who react to bullets because he can react to them, that and he's pretty much 100% accurate. you're only considering the bullet, and leaving floyd out of the equation

deadshot reflex/reaction speed is faster than cap, and that's why he can hit him with bullets. you're not simply considering how fast the bullet is moving, but how fast deadshot is accurately getting the shot off

edit:
hasn't bullseye hit cap with a shovel?

Originally posted by namorsubby
so you're saying deadshot is not likely to be able hit captain america???? this non-super speedster who is most likely completely equal if not, only a bit faster than a peak human like batman, who knows that deadshot could easily hit him if it wasn't for his so cleverly used plot device.

if the point you're trying to make here was so, then the very concept behind deadshot would not work. deadshot can hit those guys who react to bullets because he can react to them, that and he's pretty much 100% accurate. you're only considering the bullet, and leaving floyd out of the equation

deadshot reflex/reaction speed is faster than cap, and that's why he can hit him with bullets. you're not simply considering how fast the bullet is moving, but how fast deadshot is accurately getting the shot off

edit:
hasn't bullseye hit cap with a shovel?

Most likely he can hit those bullet dodgers with bullets via PIS or extenuating circumstances, but I can't say for sure because I haven't seen the instances you're referring to.

His reactions mean Jack after the bullets leave the gun. If Cap can raise his shield or get out of the way after the bullet's fired it doesn't matter how on target it was before it was fired because the bullet was aimed at a point in space that is now obstructed by Cap's shield or is no longer occupied by Cap's body.

Hasn't Flash and Superman been hit by things that weren't even moving at mach 1?

Originally posted by darthgoober
I'm saying that Cap can dodge/block bullets after they're fired, therefor he can dodge/block bullets after they're fired.

Most likely he can hit those bullet dodgers with bullets via PIS or extenuating circumstances, but I can't say for sure because I haven't seen the instances you're referring to.

His reactions mean Jack after the bullets leave the gun. If Cap can raise his shield or get out of the way after the bullet's fired it doesn't matter how on target it was before it was fired because the bullet was aimed at a point in space that is now obstructed by Cap's shield or is no longer occupied by Cap's body.

Hasn't Flash and Superman been hit by things that weren't even moving at mach 1?

like i said, you're leaving floyd's reflexes and speed out of the equation.i know cap can react to bullets after they're fired, or at least i'm taking that as a given to advance the debate, but that doesn't matter. cap is fast enough to react to bullets(so is slade, cap b, and any other superspeedster), but floyd is fast enough to react to cap and those guys and therefore can hit him and/or them with bullets. Floyd's faster than cap, and i really don't say that in reference to overall speed, although that could be true as well. look at it like this:

deadshot's quick-draw speed, or speed when firing a gun is superior to cap's overall speed/agility, which i'm equating to his ability to manuver out of the way of things like bullets. so the fact that cap can react to bullets is somewhat irrelevant. floyd lifts his gun, aims, and fires faster than someone with cap's speed can realize a threat, and react with motion sufficient enough to evade it. which is very logical when you think about it. it's a lot easier to lift, aim, and fire than to physically dodge incoming attacks and could be done more quickly

edit:

if all this you're saying of cap is true, then you'd also be telling me that he has never been hit by a bullet or anything slower without having been distracted somehow or some dibilitating circumstance, right? what about against crossbones? or bulleye's shovel?

Originally posted by namorsubby
PIS? why would you say that? you've seen his reflex speed first hand, I think you get what i'm saying.

like i said, you're leaving floyd's reflexes and speed out of the equation.i know cap can react to bullets after they're fired, or at least i'm taking that as a given to advance the debate, but that doesn't matter. cap is fast enough to react to bullets(so is slade, cap b, and any other superspeedster), but floyd is fast enough to react to cap and those guys and therefore can hit him and/or them with bullets. Floyd's faster than cap, and i really don't say that in reference to overall speed, although that could be true as well. look at it like this:

deadshot's quick-draw speed, or speed when firing a gun is superior to cap's overall speed/agility, which i'm equating to his ability to manuver out of the way of things like bullets. so the fact that cap can react to bullets is somewhat irrelevant. floyd lifts his gun, aims, and fires faster than someone with cap's speed can realize a threat, and react with motion sufficient enough to evade it. which is very logical when you think about it. it's a lot easier to lift, aim, and fire than to physical lydodge incoming attacks

edit:

if all this you're saying of cap is true, then you'd also be telling me that he has never been hit by a bullet or anything slower without having been distracted somehow or some dibilitating circumstance, right? what about against crossbones? or bulleye's shovel?

How's are you thinking he'll react aside from shooting another bullet(which can also be dodged/blocked)? The first bullet's already in the air and his reactions won't change the path of the bullet after Cap see's it and steps to the left or raises his shield to block it.

Would you like to do a feat comparison to prove that he can lift his gun and fire before Cap lifts his shield in defense? And regardless of DS's speed, Cap's still going to see the bullets in the air and deal with them. I'm not talking about Cap staying ahead of the aim of a gunman, I'm talking about him dodging/blocking the bullet in response to it being fired.

No I wouldn't, any more than a fan of Superman or the Flash would say that one of them had never been hit by something moving with less speed than a bullet. People get hit in comics all the time...

Originally posted by darthgoober
Because his reflex's don't increase the speed that the bullets travel at.

How's are you thinking he'll react aside from shooting another bullet(which can also be dodged/blocked)? The first bullet's already in the air and his reactions won't change the path of the bullet after Cap see's it and steps to the left or raises his shield to block it.

Would you like to do a feat comparison to prove that he can lift his gun and fire before Cap lifts his shield in defense? And regardless of DS's speed, Cap's still going to see the bullets in the air and deal with them. I'm not talking about Cap staying ahead of the aim of a gunman, I'm talking about him dodging/blocking the bullet in response to it being fired.

No I wouldn't, any more than a fan of Superman or the Flash would say that one of them had never been hit by something moving with less speed than a bullet. People get hit in comics all the time...

Originally posted by darthgoober
Because his reflex's don't increase the speed that the bullets travel at.

How's are you thinking he'll react aside from shooting another bullet(which can also be dodged/blocked)? The first bullet's already in the air and his reactions won't change the path of the bullet after Cap see's it and steps to the left or raises his shield to block it.

Would you like to do a feat comparison to prove that he can lift his gun and fire before Cap lifts his shield in defense? And regardless of DS's speed, Cap's still going to see the bullets in the air and deal with them. I'm not talking about Cap staying ahead of the aim of a gunman, I'm talking about him dodging/blocking the bullet in response to it being fired.

No I wouldn't, any more than a fan of Superman or the Flash would say that one of them had never been hit by something moving with less speed than a bullet. People get hit in comics all the time...

deadshot aims and shoots before cap can dodge, so the bullet's speed are in essence added to DS's superior reflexes, meaning cap can be hit.

before you start at that,no, i don't mean "add" as in increasing the bullet's speed. deadshot aims and shoots too fast for cap to dodge. I can't see how that doesn't register.

what kind of feat comparison could prove that cap lift his shield before DS could lift his gun? they've never met for one, and for two, the feat against the super-speedster proves DS is faster reflex-wise........go ahead and find whatever scan you wish to put up against that.

still though, it's obvious you don't truly acknowledge the feat.it's also obvious that the scans wanted to make it clear that deadshot could've hit boomerang, and was simply toying with him, but you still say:

He dodged the bullets because he's fast enough to dodge bullets

i really don't know why i went for this one last time, i can see the futility of it already, but i'll take this as an indication that everything hasn't gone to waste:

Now I'm kinda torn on who takes this...

i'll just end it by saying, cap is roughly bat-speed, and we know just how easily deadshot could tag him, if it wasn't for his specific weakness. regardless of that dibilitating weakness, deadshot has still managed to be fast enough to have to think not to be lethal with batman and still incapacitate him with bullets. also floyd has taken deathstroke, who some seem to think is very comparable to cap, even equal.......i think otherwise in the favor of slade but still. in conclusion, hitting super-speedsters justifies being able to hit peak humans so this statement seems strange to me:

DS's still not likely to hit him.

Originally posted by Dagarkin
These are the scans your talking about Goober?
1st one is broken.
http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/269/ca17015lw0.jpg
http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/742/ca17016np5.jpg

this right here could be easily interpreted to mean exactly what i said about peak humans. it's not that they're actually faster than bullets, but they see it about to be shot, and anticipate it's movement. This very statement from cap: "I just see faster", almost certainly suggests he doesn't actually possess the superhuman reflexes neccessary to react to a shot bullet, but instead just "sees faster", so can anticipate them. the key word is "just"......as if to say, i'm not that fast, i just......

"sees faster", seems to me to equal lengthy experience in such situations that allows him to "see" what's coming, or anticipate it.

I honestly think CA won't be able to dodge ALL the bullets fired at him by Deadshot.

In the long run, he will be shot sooner or later....
Wait.. what the hell am I saying?? DS kills CA with a single headshot.

I'm sure Deadshot would eventually get him but Cap would shrugg it off and still take him out. Cap can close the distance better then most.

All his street regards him as being faster then them. And has ran a mile a minute. Crossbones shot Cap but a Cap in hand cuffs jumping in line of fire to take the bullet for a police officer. Plus he was wearing strength dampeners at the time.

Cap's been shot 4 times before and still didn't go down shows that the strength dampeners did affect him.

For those who brought up that scene. Your right in saying Bullseye got him with a shovel but his other attempts were neutralized.

........but he got him with a shovel.

if BS can hit him with a shovel, deadshot can hit him with bullets. people seem to forget that he has armor-piercing ang high explosives strong enough to completely destroy a manhunter(guardians of the universe's manhunters). what if he shoots a few of those? is cap gonna get out of the way in time. then there's the flamethower, and the flash bang, etc, etc

it seems to me you are forgetting Cap doesn't really have to dodge.
He has got shield.
And that shield will hit Deadshot in the forehead before he would start to draw.