Respect Ganon, King of Evil

Originally posted by ESB -1138
A) When did I disrespect Ganondorf? It was called debating whether or not he died at the end of Twilight Princess.

B) There is more evidence to support his death then somehow living while Link was just standing there (and Zelda and Midna) who decided just to leave him alive

C) Sephiroth is the same character in FF7 and Advent Children and guess what; he died in FF7. We see a villain being revived all the time in gaming it's nothing new. And Twilight Princess takes place in the OoT child timeline where as Wind Waker takes place in the OoT adult timeline because Zelda has two different timelines because of the events of OoT and thus Ganondorf can die in one game and appear in another. And again when did I dispect Ganondorf? Because I'm not a mindless fanboy that can't stand to see there favorite character actually be defeated?

Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
It's not just the Twilight Princess debate, you've been bashing Ganon the entire thread.

Really? When? When I was messing with Pyron?

Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
Actually, Shigero Miyamoto has confirmed that Ocarina of Time was the first game, followed by Zelda, Adventure of Link and then Link to The Past. He stated that in 1998. That alone supports the fact Ganon never died.

That was '98 dude; it's been 10 years since then and now we have more Zelda games to add namely Wind Waker and Twilight Princess and again in case you are having trouble understanding; there's two timelines caused by OoT. The adult timeline and child timeline. Wind Waker is in adult and Twilight Princess is in child and that's all that is known.

And again it is possible in gaming because we see it so many times for someone namely a villain to be killed and to be revived. Heck your little timeline proves that; in the Adventure of Link Ganon's followers were trying to revive Ganon by the blood of Link because Ganon was dead, Twinrova was trying to revive Ganon in the Oracles of Seasons/Ages and thus he was dead, and there is nothing you can say that can't disprove this.

Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
Why do you even Mention Sephiroth? You're not a fanboy? Really? Sephiroth has nothing to do with Ganon. We don't know if Ganon died in Twilight Princess. There is rumor to be a direct sequel to TP as well, implying Ganon didn't die. As I said again, UNLESS YOU HAVE RESPECT, Get the heck out.

Rumor; Twilight Princess was rumored to be the sequel to Wind Waker but it ended up being something different. And again I have yet to disrepect Ganondorf; all I've been doing is debating but clearly you can't seem to tell the two a part because again you can't except that Ganondorf can actually be killed.

Originally posted by ESB -1138
Really? When? When I was messing with Pyron?

That was '98 dude; it's been 10 years since then and now we have more Zelda games to add namely Wind Waker and Twilight Princess and again in case you are having trouble understanding; there's two timelines caused by OoT. The adult timeline and child timeline. Wind Waker is in adult and Twilight Princess is in child and that's all that is known.

And again it is possible in gaming because we see it so many times for someone namely a villain to be killed and to be revived. Heck your little timeline proves that; in the Adventure of Link Ganon's followers were trying to revive Ganon by the blood of Link because Ganon was dead, Twinrova was trying to revive Ganon in the Oracles of Seasons/Ages and thus he was dead, and there is nothing you can say that can't disprove this.

Rumor; Twilight Princess was rumored to be the sequel to Wind Waker but it ended up being something different. And again I have yet to disrepect Ganondorf; all I've been doing is debating but clearly you can't seem to tell the two a part because again you can't except that Ganondorf can actually be killed.

Oh, knock it off both of you.

Though, for the record - there is a difference between never dying, and dying but not stayind dead. Personally I think Ganon falls into the latter category.

Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
Actually, Shigero Miyamoto has confirmed that Ocarina of Time was the first game, followed by Zelda, Adventure of Link and then Link to The Past. He stated that in 1998. That alone supports the fact Ganon never died.

Wrong. Miyamoto has only confirmed that OoT is the first game in the main series.

However, The series mostly goes in sequel pairs. OoT>MM, LoZ>AoL, etc. But ALttP is explicited stated to be a prequel to LoZ. How many times have I gone over the timeline, guys?

No, it is not verified that the split time-line theory is the official Theory. Nintendo has yet to release an official continuity, until then, any theory is just speculation.

You really should not argue on a subject you obviously know very little about.

Ganon has never died. That is the point. He has never been fully killed off, and always finds a way back.

Personally...I find Ganon's immortality inconsistent. He dies in the old games, then in WW, WITHOUT THE TRIFORCE OF POWER, he doesn't die from being stabbed in the forehead with the Master Sword. Then in TP, he could have died, could have not, can't be sure.

If he did not die in TP, I think it is safe to say Ganon's mortality has been retconned into immortality.

Originally posted by General Kaliero
*ahem*

Wrong. Miyamoto has only confirmed that OoT is the first game in the main series.

However, The series mostly goes in sequel pairs. OoT>MM, LoZ>AoL, etc. But ALttP is explicited stated to be a prequel to LoZ. How many times have I gone over the timeline, guys?

Wrong again. Aonuma confirmed after TP's release that it takes place in the second timeline after OoT, aka after MM, when Ganondorf never rises to power and is instead imprisoned before he can attack Hyrule. Whereas WW takes place in the first timeline after OoT, the timeline that continues after the Hero of Time disappears and Ganon breaks out of the Sacred Realm.

You really should not argue on a subject you obviously know very little about.

Very big difference between "never dying" and "dying but not forever." The reason for AoL was that Ganon's minions were trying to kill Link so they could sprinkle his blood on Ganon's ashes to revive him. Ganon spends the entirety of the Oracle arc dead until his body is revived after both games.

I know more than you apparently..

*falls over laughing*

Are you joking, or do you actually think you're serious there? Because even I know most of what you're saying isn't correct and I don't even follow the Zelda canon that closely (ie timeline stuff, I know very little of, etc).

Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
I'll have to dig out the quote to show you. He did state that those games followed in that sequence.

You are not the official timeline master, sorry to say. Nintendo has NOT released an official timeline.

However, the games themselves have quite a bit to say on the matter.

The prologue to TWW clearly tells that it takes place in the timeline as when OoT Link defeated Ganon in the future. Furthermore, this Ganondorf recognizes WW Link's green tunic and hat, and went to great lengths to seal the Master Sword, proving that he fears it's power, having remembered it from the past, when he was first destroyed by it.

In TP, sages who are not the Sages awakened by Link in OoT put Ganondorf on trial and (attempt to) execute him, and then send him to the Twilight Realm. During the game, Ganondorf says nothing at all about either TP Link's clothes or the sword he wields, which he surely would have had this been the same Ganondorf that had fought the adult Hero of Time only about a century earlier. From this, the most logical conclusion is that TP Ganon is not, in fact, the same Ganondorf that adult OoT Link defeated, and that he is what Ganondorf would have become if Link had never opened the Door of Time.

ALttP's history meshes much more easily with TP's version of the sages and Ganondorf than with OoT's (though Ganny was revived at some point between TP and ALttP, presumably in TP's upcoming sequel). Therefore it logically follows TP for the time being.

LA could be in two spots. There are those who believe it is ALttP Link (which is supported by the fact that LA was created after ALttP, while the series' timeline was still fairly straightforward, and by how Zelda games come in pairs, and LA pairs off with ALttP), and there are those who believe it comes after the Oracle saga.

ALttP was expressly a prequel to LoZ, on the very back of the game's box, so LoZ must follow ALttP in the same timeline. AoL is an express sequel to LoZ, so must follow it in the same timeline.

Phantom Hourglass is an express sequel to TWW, and so must follow in it's timeline.

The Oracle games enclose themselves, and so can be inserted at any point after which Ganon has been killed.

So, the most logical order of events, considering simply the games themselves, is:

Four Sword Saga timeline:

Minish Cap

Four Swords

Four Swords Adventures

Main Series timeline:

Ocarina of Time
(Child Ending) ::::::::::::: (Adult Ending)

Majora's Mask ::::::::::: The Wind Waker

Twilight Princess ::::::::: Phantom Hourglass

A Link to the Past

Link's Awakening (?)

Legend of Zelda

Zelda II: The Adventure of Link

Anywhere Games:

Oracle of Ages/Seasons

Link's Awakening (?)

No, YOU are wrong. He said YOU COULD SAY, he never said it was fact. When Nintendo releases and official timeline or continuity, than you can read it and be the grandmaster. As it is now, there are no set in stone records according to the timeline. I'm well aware of his quotes. And you are mis-interpreting them.

–When does Twilight Princess take place?

Aonuma: In the world of Ocarina of Time, a hundred and something years later.

–And the Wind Waker?

Aonuma: The Wind Waker is parallel. In Ocarina of Time, Link flew seven years in time, he beat Ganon and went back to being a kid, remember? Twilight Princess takes place in the world of Ocarina of Time, a hundred and something years after the peace returned to kid Link’s time. In the last scene of Ocarina of Time, kids Link and Zelda have a little talk, and as a consequence of that talk, their relationship with Ganon takes a whole new direction. In the middle of this game [Twilight Princess], there's a scene showing Ganon's execution. It was decided that Ganon be executed because he'd do something outrageous if they left him be. That scene takes place several years after Ocarina of Time. Ganon was sent to another world and now he wants to obtain the power...

I know more than you apparently..

Originally posted by General Kaliero
I wish you luck, because you'll have quite a time finding such a thing.

With as much research as I have done into the Zelda timeline, I know quite well that an official timeline has not been released.

However, the games themselves have quite a bit to say on the matter.

The prologue to TWW clearly tells that it takes place in the timeline as when OoT Link defeated Ganon in the future. Furthermore, this Ganondorf recognizes WW Link's green tunic and hat, and went to great lengths to seal the Master Sword, proving that he fears it's power, having remembered it from the past, when he was first destroyed by it.

In TP, sages who are not the Sages awakened by Link in OoT put Ganondorf on trial and (attempt to) execute him, and then send him to the Twilight Realm. During the game, Ganondorf says nothing at all about either TP Link's clothes or the sword he wields, which he surely would have had this been the same Ganondorf that had fought the adult Hero of Time only about a century earlier. From this, the most logical conclusion is that TP Ganon is not, in fact, the same Ganondorf that adult OoT Link defeated, and that he is what Ganondorf would have become if Link had never opened the Door of Time.

ALttP's history meshes much more easily with TP's version of the sages and Ganondorf than with OoT's (though Ganny was revived at some point between TP and ALttP, presumably in TP's upcoming sequel). Therefore it logically follows TP for the time being.

LA could be in two spots. There are those who believe it is ALttP Link (which is supported by the fact that LA was created after ALttP, while the series' timeline was still fairly straightforward, and by how Zelda games come in pairs, and LA pairs off with ALttP), and there are those who believe it comes after the Oracle saga.

ALttP was expressly a prequel to LoZ, on the very back of the game's box, so LoZ must follow ALttP in the same timeline. AoL is an express sequel to LoZ, so must follow it in the same timeline.

Phantom Hourglass is an express sequel to TWW, and so must follow in it's timeline.

The Oracle games enclose themselves, and so can be inserted at any point after which Ganon has been killed.

So, the most logical order of events, considering simply the games themselves, is:

Four Sword Saga timeline:

Minish Cap

Four Swords

Four Swords Adventures

Main Series timeline:

Ocarina of Time
(Child Ending) ::::::::::::: (Adult Ending)

Majora's Mask ::::::::::: The Wind Waker

Twilight Princess ::::::::: Phantom Hourglass

A Link to the Past

Link's Awakening (?)

Legend of Zelda

Zelda II: The Adventure of Link

Anywhere Games:

Oracle of Ages/Seasons

Link's Awakening (?)

Observe:

...Rather hard to misinterpret, I'd say.

I hope the material above shows you just how silly that assertion is.

Originally posted by General Kaliero
I wish you luck, because you'll have quite a time finding such a thing.

With as much research as I have done into the Zelda timeline, I know quite well that an official timeline has not been released.

However, the games themselves have quite a bit to say on the matter.

The prologue to TWW clearly tells that it takes place in the timeline as when OoT Link defeated Ganon in the future. Furthermore, this Ganondorf recognizes WW Link's green tunic and hat, and went to great lengths to seal the Master Sword, proving that he fears it's power, having remembered it from the past, when he was first destroyed by it.

In TP, sages who are not the Sages awakened by Link in OoT put Ganondorf on trial and (attempt to) execute him, and then send him to the Twilight Realm. During the game, Ganondorf says nothing at all about either TP Link's clothes or the sword he wields, which he surely would have had this been the same Ganondorf that had fought the adult Hero of Time only about a century earlier. From this, the most logical conclusion is that TP Ganon is not, in fact, the same Ganondorf that adult OoT Link defeated, and that he is what Ganondorf would have become if Link had never opened the Door of Time.

ALttP's history meshes much more easily with TP's version of the sages and Ganondorf than with OoT's (though Ganny was revived at some point between TP and ALttP, presumably in TP's upcoming sequel). Therefore it logically follows TP for the time being.

LA could be in two spots. There are those who believe it is ALttP Link (which is supported by the fact that LA was created after ALttP, while the series' timeline was still fairly straightforward, and by how Zelda games come in pairs, and LA pairs off with ALttP), and there are those who believe it comes after the Oracle saga.

ALttP was expressly a prequel to LoZ, on the very back of the game's box, so LoZ must follow ALttP in the same timeline. AoL is an express sequel to LoZ, so must follow it in the same timeline.

Phantom Hourglass is an express sequel to TWW, and so must follow in it's timeline.

The Oracle games enclose themselves, and so can be inserted at any point after which Ganon has been killed.

So, the most logical order of events, considering simply the games themselves, is:

Four Sword Saga timeline:

Minish Cap

Four Swords

Four Swords Adventures

Main Series timeline:

Ocarina of Time
(Child Ending) ::::::::::::: (Adult Ending)

Majora's Mask ::::::::::: The Wind Waker

Twilight Princess ::::::::: Phantom Hourglass

A Link to the Past

Link's Awakening (?)

Legend of Zelda

Zelda II: The Adventure of Link

Anywhere Games:

Oracle of Ages/Seasons

Link's Awakening (?)

Observe:

...Rather hard to misinterpret, I'd say.

I hope the material above shows you just how silly that assertion is.

Zeldawiki quote? Excuse me? Said interview came from Japan's monthly Nintendo Dream magazine, which is about as official a source as you can get.

As for Aonuma's authority, he has been Game Director for OoT, MM, WW, TP, and PH. While that's more of a Japanese term, it's equivalent to Executive Producer in the West. He's in charge of most of the creative aspects of the Zelda games. Miyamoto started the series and still oversees it, but - except for the occasional Chabudai Gaeshi - Aonuma is in charge of all things Zelda. His word can be trusted as canon, unless Miyamoto directly contradicts him.

Again, there is no official timeline, but the games largely speak for themselves relating to each other, and the split timeline is officially confirmed. Anyone with a decent amount of intelligence and patience can put the games in an order that satisfies the in-game criteria.

Pwned. Any who; moving on. It's a good thing Ganondorf never showed himself to be this technologically advance in the Zelda games because dang...that's a big cannon:

WSX1W7tcasA&feature=related

Of course it was made by Tabuu only the disguise of Master Hand to command Ganondorf who planned on betraying the Master Hand. Brawl is a fun game...shame Subspace is a little bland. But hey the action is plentiful and the characters are numerous.

^And the cutscenes are uber.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Personally...I find Ganon's immortality inconsistent. He dies in the old games, then in WW, WITHOUT THE TRIFORCE OF POWER, he doesn't die from being stabbed in the forehead with the Master Sword. Then in TP, he could have died, could have not, can't be sure.

If he did not die in TP, I think it is safe to say Ganon's mortality has been retconned into immortality.

Well he could have died in WW. I mean the game was aimed for a younger audience and was rated E so showing blood gushing out of Ganon's head and then his lifeless body falling to the ground wouldn't have set well so turning into stone seemed like the next best deal. Just my two cents. But I haven't played WW in a long, long time.

He was abloe to speak with it in his head at base...No ToP...And then was turned to stone. I take that as being sealed.

Again, there is no official timeline, but the games largely speak for themselves relating to each other, and the split timeline is officially confirmed. Anyone with a decent amount of intelligence and patience can put the games in an order that satisfies the in-game criteria.

Also, for your "intelligent people" concept, TP does nothing to confirm the split timeline theory. In fact, it throws a huge wrench into it. Hyrule wasn't covered with water after it's ending. PH did follow WW nicely, and didn't attempt to screw around with Ganon, but TP is the Split Timeline theories' biggest hole.

Also, if you think Four Swords comes before Minish cap, you are hilariously wrong, as Vaati was trapped in the sword at the start of FS, which he wasn't defeated until Minish Cap. Stop pretending you know alot about Zelda, when you clearly don't.

Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
Yes, no official timeline. And I know about Aonama's supervisory role in his Zelda titles. It still doesn't confirm a split timeline theory. He doesn't have the authority. Until the words are confirmed from Miyamoto's mouth directly, or in an official Nintendo press release, NO THEORY OR TIMELINE is confirmed. And again, I like the split timeline Theory the best myself, but I, unlike you, don't pretend it is official.

Also, for your "intelligent people" concept, TP does nothing to confirm the split timeline theory. In fact, it throws a huge wrench into it. Hyrule wasn't covered with water after it's ending. PH did follow WW nicely, and didn't attempt to screw around with Ganon, but TP is the Split Timeline theories' biggest hole.

Also, if you think Four Swords comes before Minish cap, you are hilariously wrong, as Vaati was trapped in the sword at the start of FS, which he wasn't defeated until Minish Cap. Stop pretending you know alot about Zelda, when you clearly don't.

Aonuma's word is canon unless Miyamoto says specifically "What Aonuma said is wrong." That is a fact; you can either accept it, or be wrong.

Why would Hyrule be covered with water at the end of TP? Hyrule is flooded in the alternate, Linkless timeline, when Ganon breaks out of the Sacred Realm and the Goddesses are forced to flood Hyrule to contain him because there is no more Hero.

Read again, I specifically said The Minish Cap comes before Four Swords. Which is obvious from the game, as it begins the tradition of the Hero having a green cap, focuses on the Light Force instead of the Triforce, and features Vaati's Minish form, before he transforms into the one-eyed demonic form.

As for "pretending" to know a lot about Zelda... I have played every American-available Zelda game in the series, beaten all of them, and most of them multiple times. I can say, without ego, that very few here know more about the Zelda series than I do. It is my absolute favorite game series, so I think I'm going to know what I'm talking about.

Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
Yes, no official timeline. And I know about Aonama's supervisory role in his Zelda titles. It still doesn't confirm a split timeline theory. He doesn't have the authority. Until the words are confirmed from Miyamoto's mouth directly, or in an official Nintendo press release, NO THEORY OR TIMELINE is confirmed. And again, I like the split timeline Theory the best myself, but I, unlike you, don't pretend it is official.

Aonama > You
Aonama has worked under and with Miyamoto and many Zelda games and unless Miyamoto comes out and says Aonama is wrong his word is canon.

Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
Also, for your "intelligent people" concept, TP does nothing to confirm the split timeline theory. In fact, it throws a huge wrench into it. Hyrule wasn't covered with water after it's ending. PH did follow WW nicely, and didn't attempt to screw around with Ganon, but TP is the Split Timeline theories' biggest hole.

Split timeline would mean that TP and WW take place in pretty much alternate realities like with DBZ and Trunks coming back in time and changing one timeline but another goes on a different path. Aonama said that TP takes place around the same time as WW before.

Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
Also, if you think Four Swords comes before Minish cap, you are hilariously wrong, as Vaati was trapped in the sword at the start of FS, which he wasn't defeated until Minish Cap. Stop pretending you know alot about Zelda, when you clearly don't.

When did he say the Four Swords came before the Minish Cap?

Well....I think Aonuma or someone actually said Four Swords Adventures is THE first Zelda.