Caedus vs Palpatine (Dark Empire)

Started by darthsith193 pages
darthsith19 Arm-Wrestler

"plot included stupidity" Jacen has.

ThoraxeRMG The Last Boss

I agree.

Darth Sexy Restricted

What has he done on the level of Sidious? Granted he can hide in the force and flow walk but what is actually useful in a fight?

Lightsnake Senior Member
Originally posted by darthsith19
Fine then, the plot induced stupidity version of Darth Caedus beats DE Sidious.

You're not being funny or witty here. We saw Luke effortlessly own Caedus with the force earlier the same book.

When Caedus has anything that compares to Palpatine with the force, or uses comparable saber skills, then he'll win.

tulakhordpwns ?

Re: Re: Re: Caedus vs Palpatine (Dark Empire)

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Palpatine can do the same tihng and he's had WAY more practice with it than Caedusi.

But does he use it constantly in battle? Actually, the rage coming from him is usually emphasized.
Because it was stated that any force attacks the two used against one another'd be purely useless

OK. So what are these all powerful techniques that Sidious is going to use against Caedus.
he hasn't to my knowledge

So we agree.
Well, 'nearly' anything Caedus can do might be more accurate.
On that note, Caedus can't do half of what Palp can

Like what?
Believe me, any description of Caedus there pales to Palpatine in full on fury. Luke has several issues in that fight:
1. He's still recovering from a few earlier fights, as seen when Caedus scores an injury by striking one of Luke's wounds

And Jacen has had more sever injuries from a more recent battle with Mara.
2. Luke does not use the force against Caedus to a great degree.

Because he can't while they are in the middle of a relatively even duel. Luke uses the force against him only after Caedus is spinning away to protect the eye that Luke poked out.

VERY doubtful. Consider: Luke was only able to match Palpatine when they both went into 'force avatar' state. Palpatine's saber abilities were so adept, no only could he move faster than an eye could see, but he was able to trace Maul's outline with it to the point that the tiniest twitch would leave Maul in pieces.

Exactly. When Palpatine was in the avatar state. Saying he is going to be in avatar state in this fight is like saying Jacen is going to be in avatar state in this fight. That is a big assumption.

Caedus comes off WAY worse.

And Sidious comes off WAY worse in his fight with Luke.
Fight longer than who?
Luke gets the upper hand when he has Caedus screaming in agony, injures his eye, almost caves his cheekbone in, slices into his skull...and just before Ben interfered, Luke would have ended the fight. Caedus realized said interference saved him.

Yes Caedus loses to LotF Luke, but at least he injures him. That is more than Sidious in avatar mode can say.

Lightsnake Senior Member

Re: Re: Re: Re: Caedus vs Palpatine (Dark Empire)

Originally posted by tulakhordpwns
But does he use it constantly in battle? Actually, the rage coming from him is usually emphasized.

Usually because he doesn't bother. If Caedus tries it, though, Palpatine will even out the advantage.

OK. So what are these all powerful techniques that Sidious is going to use against Caedus.

Just about...every Dark Side force power that exists?
This is someone powerful enough to destroy a lightsaber with a flick of his finger, ravage planets and consume fleets.

So we agree.

Like what?


Really, THP....you can't try to tell me that Palpatine's knowledge doesn't leave Caedus's in the dust?

And Jacen has had more sever injuries from a more recent battle with Mara.

All, unlike Luke's, had been healed and couldn't be exploited.

Because he can't while they are in the middle of a relatively even duel. Luke uses the force against him only after Caedus is spinning away to protect the eye that Luke poked out.

And earlier in the book when Luke uses the Force? Caedus is terrified and can't even move


Exactly. When Palpatine was in the avatar state. Saying he is going to be in avatar state in this fight is like saying Jacen is going to be in avatar state in this fight. That is a big assumption.

I didn't say he would be-I'm saying he was so powerful already that Luke was only able to match him by also assuming the avatar state. In his natural form, Palpatine is quite a bit above the Caedus we see now.


And Sidious comes off WAY worse in his fight with Luke.

To be specific, he loses a hand...and to a guy that can leapfrog through bodies, that's not really a crippling loss. He doesn't end the saber duel nearly as bad, or push Luke as hard as Palpatine has


Yes Caedus loses to LotF Luke, but at least he injures him. That is more than Sidious in avatar mode can say.

Considering LUMIYA does better against Luke....hell, can she beat Palpatine, too?

tulakhordpwns ?

Re: Re: Re: Caedus vs Palpatine (Dark Empire)

Originally posted by Manslayer
Palpatine himself can move faster than the eye can see, i guess yo missed out reading dark empire or the audio book, or the source book

I am not denying that, read what I posted, I was explaining why his hiding would help him.
Was it necessary? No it wasnt, he may not even need to use it against caedus seeing he is superior to him inthe force

It wasn't necessary you say, and yet Sidious lost. Great logic.
Thats because it would be necessary unlike the caedus battle where sidious can unleash anything he wishes to

You seem to know exactly what Sidious would do. Please explain these force powers Sidious will use to pwn Caedus.
That was never the claim

So we agree.
Because luke studied under him thus he learnt to defend against them?

Hence why sidious wouldnt use a technique which then will be blocked by luke?

Or the fact that he wanted to test luke and decided not to go all out? Despite all this it took leia look and anakin solo to sever palpatine off the force


OK, wouldn't you think that after Sidious realizes he can't win easily, he would go all out, instead of foolishly letting himself be beat.

What words? That he stated the sith died out on endor

And that proves?

Dumbass, what part of sidious mastered every aspect of the force you dont get? He can do everything jacen does

😆 😆 Go back and read my post.
LOL and you fail to say how caedus > sidious because you just blatantly being a dumbass not backing up shit.

Its already established sidious > caedus from various sources hence why the "sidious will rape caedus!!!"


🙂 Really? What canon source says Sidious>Caedus?

who oope fcuking doo. Sidious moved faster than the eye could see in DE. And so what if caedus managed to wound luke a little when in the end he got his ass kicked by luke?

😆 Anyone can realize that being able to severely injure someone before you are defeated is better than just being defeated without even injuring your opponent.
I guess by your logic bol chatak is even stronger than vader seeing she managed to wound him

Excellent comparison. Except for the fact that I never said that Jacen is stronger than Luke because he injures him.

Does very well? Jacen suffers alot more injuries than luke and nearly got his ass beaten through a saber duel.

Yeah, being able to severely injure Luke is doing pretty well. He lost obviously, but Sidious isn't above LotF Luke. Fyi, Luke uses the force against Jacen in their duel.
Did luke use the force to a high degree? Did luke bothered to use emerald lightning?
Had he used the force caedus would have gotten killed

No, because they are in an extremly fast fight that does not give Luke enough time to use the force offensively, until he pokes Caedus' eye. At which point Luke does use the force. I guess Sidious sucks too, because Luke never used emerald lightning in his fight against him, and still lost. Again, Luke does use the force.

Darth_Glentract The Truest Sith Lord
Originally posted by darthsith19
Fine then, the plot induced stupidity version of Darth Caedus beats DE Sidious.

Ummmmm...no. Jacen would be destroyed by Sidious with Force attacks during the beginning of the fight. Keep in mind Jacen had traps to his advantage, such as the Vong devices that helped him against Luke.

tulakhordpwns ?

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Ummmmm...no. Jacen would be destroyed by Sidious with Force attacks during the beginning of the fight. Keep in mind Jacen had traps to his advantage, such as the Vong devices that helped him against Luke.

Actually, Luke used the Vong stuff a lot better than Caedus did. It was throwing him into that tentacle thing that gave Luke the upper hand.

Manslayer Restricted

Re: Re: Re: Re: Caedus vs Palpatine (Dark Empire)

You get your ass handed and you come back for more.

You are a debator wannabe and an idiot beyond belief

Originally posted by tulakhordpwns
I am not denying that, read what I posted, I was explaining why his hiding would help him.
Oh i have read your posts all right, You point holds no water seeing sidious can do the same exact same thing

Originally posted by tulakhordpwns

It wasn't necessary you say, and yet Sidious lost. Great logic.
Yet it took 3 force users to cut sidious off the force when he is performing his force storm technique in a situation where he couldnt do anything seeing that if he did, his storm will consume his ship and kill him in the process.

Ironic that luke couldnt kill sidious alone and was being boosted by leias battlemeditation as stated by vima.

Once again your an idiot

Originally posted by tulakhordpwns

You seem to know exactly what Sidious would do. Please explain these force powers Sidious will use to pwn Caedus.
Force storm? TK attacks which luke pwned caedus in? Killer force drain?

Just about every force technique sidious knows? Lightning that charred sith acolytes to bones? TK which lifted a super star destroyer?

Once again your an idiot

Originally posted by tulakhordpwns

So we agree.

Did i say i agree? I said neither moron, learn to read and more importantly comprehend.

Once again your an idiot

Originally posted by tulakhordpwns

OK, wouldn't you think that after Sidious realizes he can't win easily, he would go all out, instead of foolishly letting himself be beat.
Like sidious would be stupid to toy with a dangerous opponent.
Once again your an idiot

Originally posted by tulakhordpwns

And that proves?
That jacen shouldnt even be a full fledged sith, that jacens a pretender

Once again your an idiot

Originally posted by tulakhordpwns

😆 😆 Go back and read my post.
I have young tulakhordpwns and you make no sense at all

Once again your an idiot

Originally posted by tulakhordpwns

🙂 Really? What canon source says Sidious>Caedus?

Page 109 from the Dark Empire sourcebook:

Palpatine has risen from the dead. The most powerful Sith Lord who ever lived had returned

Empire's End, one of the Sith spirits: He gave up everything to the Dark Side long ago. He has become the greatest who ever lived. He is the strongest who ever lived....I say we give what he wishes.

Essential Chronology: "the most powerful Sith who had ever lived, Emperor Palpatine had returned from the grave."[i]

Palpatine learned a Force Storm. It is is an attack that rips apart the fabric of existence and space-time. It can do everything from create a wormhole to move a person lightyears to ravage the surface of a planet to annihilate starfleets. Palpatine uses Force lightning with enough power to kill 100 augmented Strormtroopers effortlessly. Same lightning reduced 3 dark siders strong enough to resurrect Darth Maul to charred skeletons.

His battle with Luke in Dark Empire, according to the audio, had enough energy sent off to kill nearby Stormtroopers. He also can drain planets of their energy.

The new essential chronology: [i] yoda was unable to defeat the most powerful sith lord in history[i]

Once again your an idiot

[i]Originally posted by tulakhordpwns

😆 Anyone can realize that being able to severely injure someone before you are defeated is better than just being defeated without even injuring your opponent.
This is relevant to beating sidious how?
Originally posted by tulakhordpwns

Excellent comparison. Except for the fact that I never said that Jacen is stronger than Luke because he injures him.
But your uber logic is claiming that because he hurt luke in situation A means he can kill sidious in situation B.

Terrific analogy moron

Once again you an idiot

Originally posted by tulakhordpwns

Yeah, being able to severely injure Luke is doing pretty well. He lost obviously, but Sidious isn't above LotF Luke. Fyi, Luke uses the force against Jacen in their duel.
Uh ok? Did i claim sidious is above LOTF luke?

And oh he did use teh farce against jacen huh? Funny that we dont see any of lukes uber killing moves that will annihilate jacen the moment he uses them.

Luke lifted Jacen with TK and jacen couldnt do shit about it, this alone is enough to prove luke and sidious superior to jacen in the force.

Did luke use emerald lightning against jacen? Luke didnt go all out in fear of ben falling to the dark side according to darth sexy, He is some one alot more reliable than a ****** who thinks he can debate.

Originally posted by tulakhordpwns

No, because they are in an extremly fast fight that does not give Luke enough time to use the force offensively,
Doesnt mean luke cant use the force during a saber lock or when at a distance, you cant even execute a force attack even during a normal duel unless at as saber lock

Originally posted by tulakhordpwns

until he pokes Caedus' eye. At which point Luke does use the force. I guess Sidious sucks too, because Luke never used emerald lightning in his fight against him, and still lost. Again, Luke does use the force.
Right like luke even knew emerald lightning at the point of DE, Your an idiot tulakhordpwns. i reconmend you get off KMC and goto lucasforums.com where they need morons like you.

Luke using the force to push jacen into wires or vines doesnt equate to going all out.

Your an idiot beyond belief.
You got your ass handed yet you insist on coming back for more

tulakhordpwns ?

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Caedus vs Palpatine (Dark Empire)

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Usually because he doesn't bother. If Caedus tries it, though, Palpatine will even out the advantage.

That is silly to say that just because Caedus hides himself, Sidious will too (especially when Sidious has not really used this power often). Hiding in the force does not affect Sidious at all. He is not going to just copy everything Caedus does.

Just about...every Dark Side force power that exists?
This is someone powerful enough to destroy a lightsaber with a flick of his finger, ravage planets and consume fleets.

I want to know what powerful techniques that Sidious is going to use against Caedus.
Destroying a lightsaber is good, but Sidious will not be able to do that in the middle of a lightsaber duel that is moving faster than the eye can see.

Really, THP....you can't try to tell me that Palpatine's knowledge doesn't leave Caedus's in the dust?

You misunderstand me. I am asking what powers Sidious will be able to use against Caedus.

Lightsnake Senior Member

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Caedus vs Palpatine (Dark Empire)

Originally posted by tulakhordpwns
That is silly to say that just because Caedus hides himself, Sidious will too (especially when Sidious has not really used this power often). Hiding in the force does not affect Sidious at all. He is not going to just copy everything Caedus does.

No. He WILL negate Caedus's advantage, though. Palpatine spent years using that power. He sees no reason to do it anymore when no other force user still alive could challenge him


I want to know what powerful techniques that Sidious is going to [b]use against Caedus.
Destroying a lightsaber is good, but Sidious will not be able to do that in the middle of a lightsaber duel that is moving faster than the eye can see.

Why don't we try, ohh...force lightning, draining his life, lashing out with the power of his anger, simple telekenisis, the electromagnetic torpedo...really, there are a lot.

You misunderstand me. I am asking what powers Sidious will be able to use against Caedus. [/B]

Just think to yourself, my friend: "What are the most powerful Dark Side powers?' That'll answer the question.

Manslayer Restricted

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Caedus vs Palpatine (Dark Empire)

Originally posted by tulakhordpwns
That is silly to say that just because Caedus hides himself, Sidious will too (especially when Sidious has not really used this power often). Hiding in the force does not affect Sidious at all. He is not going to just copy everything Caedus does.
That would also be silly to say just because caedus draws out his saber, so will sidious.

Dumb logic

Originally posted by tulakhordpwns

I want to know what powerful techniques that Sidious is going to [b]use against Caedus.
Destroying a lightsaber is good, but Sidious will not be able to do that in the middle of a lightsaber duel that is moving faster than the eye can see.
[/B]
Anything in his arsenal of force powers

Darth Scythe Wheres my grape drink?

Palps would manipulate Jacens stupid ass with Dun Moch before the fight even started and use every dirty trick in his disposal. His Sith knowledge is real and ancient compared to Jacens at that point. All he's learned is some philosophical B.S. from Lumiya by the time he ascended.

I highly doubt Caedus' Sith knowledge surpasses Sidious, the guy who wrote the Dark Side Compendium. He was his own Dark Side/Sith library. Sure, Jacen could flow walk and do some other random stuff. But that Aing Tii mumbo jumbo won't help in a fight.

tulakhordpwns ?

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Caedus vs Palpatine (Dark Empire)

All, unlike Luke's, had been healed and couldn't be exploited.

Where are you getting that Jacen's wounds were completely healed?
And are you seriously saying that I wouldn't be possible to take advantage of an injured knee, or an injured shoulder, or any of his other injuries?

And earlier in the book when Luke uses the Force? Caedus is terrified and can't even move

Yeah, so if Caedus just stands a fair distance away from Sidious and is not ready for a fight, then something similar will happen. But I am arguing that once they get into a lightsaber a situation more like Caedus' fight against Luke will happen.

Lightsnake Senior Member

You mean Caedus doing decently, but still losing badly? And to an opponent who will not hesitate to kill him while he's down?

Borbarad Advocatus Diaboli

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Caedus vs Palpatine (Dark Empire)

Originally posted by tulakhordpwns
Yeah, so if Caedus just stands a fair distance away from Sidious and is not ready for a fight, then something similar will happen. But I am arguing that once they get into a lightsaber a situation more like Caedus' fight against Luke will happen.

O rly ?

Lightsaber fight ? Aside from the fact that Sidious demonstrated the ability to instantly destroy an opponents lightsaber with a mere gesture he did also floor Luke with a barrage of force lightning when Luke, with his lightsaber ignited, was pretty much in melee range. That aside from effortlessly summoning a force storm right after Luke has disarmed Sidious (by cutting his hand off).

So even if Jacen should get into melee range (which already is a big IF) Sidious would still be able to disarm him or destroy him with his superior force mastery. Unless you want to argue that Jacen is somehow stronger than Luke and Leia together - which I pretty much doubt.