Could Sidious see the future?

Originally posted by queeq
So tunring against and killing your family, losing wife and kids, hurting your son and turning on your master earns one the title of Chosen One??? That's very odd....

Yes, Anakin suffered more. But Luke resisted the Dark Side twice, decided to risk his life to save his father who'd everyone had given up on, and risked his own life.... I call that doing all the hard work. Vader just followed his own desires until the love of his son made him turn.

And rather than "risking" his life, he gave his life to save his son and fulfill the prophecy. He turned on everything he believed in so he could have the chance to save the one person who showed him unconditional love. Of course that was manipulated by someone who played the ENTIRE JEDI ORDER, so yea, I'd say Anakin did a lot of the hard work and has a firm grip on the title Chosen One.

And no, the prophecy was not misread. GL stated that Anakin/Vader was the chosen one and did in fact fulfill the prophecy when he killed Palpatine. EP3 - special features - The Chosen One; as well as ROTS commentary.

Plus, did Luke have to fight in any huge wars for very long or any huge battles? I don't think so, he had Hoth, which he did very little, he left in his X-Wing, he wasn't on Endor, and the Death Star doesn't count, he went all sneaky.

Anakin had the Clone Wars which was brutal and fought hard on many different planets.

How can a person 'earn' the title of Chosen One? (more directed to queeq)

You can't. You either are or you aren't...you have to be...*gasp*...chosen to be the Chosen One.

Yeah, exactly, queeq doesn't know what he's talking about.

indeed not

He should lose his mod powers, not very trustworthy.

i agree. if he does not give up his mod powers after this debate is over, he should be removed from office...

By a majority vote.

to a dark place this line of thought will carry us...

To death in fact.

Look.. aside from the fact that I know Anakin is the Chosen One, the whole plot device just doesn't work. GL made him into a guy that flips the switch. When did Anakin resist the Dark Side???? Only after his son showed him. Anakin never did: het killed Tusken, kept quiet about it, never told his mentor, never listens, is arrogant, complains and wants to follow his own desires. That's all he's done from AOTC on, up until the moment Luke suffers.

For a Chosen One to bring balance, all he does is chuck the Emperor down a chute. Luke on the other hand faces his destiny head on by going to meet Vader in ROTJ. Only trusting his Jedi skills and perhaps the love for his father. He uses the Dark Side to strike down Vader, b7ut he resists temptation. He turns back from what Yoda said could not be done: Once you go down the Dark path....
Only then Vader does the same.

In fact, Luke adds another interesting tidbit into Jedi lore here. They always said attachment makes one open for the Dark Side. In this particular case Luke's attachment to his father actually results in bringing balance to the Force. No one taught Luke that, it came from himself. Luke faced the dangers, he turned back from using the Dark Side powers and through love he made his father turn... and then Vader chucks the Emperor down the chute.... Luke wrote Jedi history.

I always loathed the Chosen One thing when TPM came out and I still do. GL does nothing with the prophecy, it's useless and badly thought through.

Agree.

Well, someone does.

Nope you are right about the whole thing....if there has to be a chosen one Luke gets my vote.

Well we're not taking votes right now.

I know Luke did shit, but everything he did, so did Anakin in a way. Anakin faced his destiny which was far worse than Luke's and still overcame and brought balance to the force. Doesn't matter why, he had to do it on his own. Like his mom said, the choice is yours alone.

Luke struck down Vader via the darkside, Anakin struck the Tuskens via the darkside.

Anakin whines alot...Luke wants to go to Toshi Station to pick up some power converters, cries about leaving home all the time until his aunt and uncle are killed.

Anakin listens when he needs to, save for against Dooku, and Luke does the same. Did he listen to Yoda about the cave? Did he listen to Leia about the trap? Or about even going to Cloud City?

Luke, I'm sure, was raised with love and compassion, whereas Anakin, while being cared for, is constantly put down by OB1. He made it quite clear to QGJ that he didn't like Anakin and only took on the task due to a death bed promise. What kind of true support are you really going to get from someone who has to train you? If QGJ trained Anakin, i think everything would be completely different.

Anakin was still quite passionate about being a Jedi and following the code, and no matter how you want to twist it, he was right about the whole spying on and killing Palpatine issue. Treason, murder...he was right. Maybe for the wrong reasons, but he was still right. If the council had known the circumstances under which he had demolished and killed Dooku, and only offered the excuse, "he's too dangerous to keep alive," Mace would have his ass. He's constantly disrespected by the council as well, mainly Mace.

I know Luke still did a lot for the Jedi, but his Order was founded on the principles that Anakin was living...love, attachment, compassion; all of those things that Luke allowed, were the things that led to Anakin's "downfall." Hypocrisy really.

But yes, Lucas shouldn't have even introduced the idea of a prophecy.

Anakin may have been right but he never ACTED right. He never used his principles to direct his actions. He didn't really choose, as Luke did after ESB.

But we agree on the prophecy thing. Bad move,

fully oh great destroyer

Originally posted by queeq
Anakin may have been right but he never ACTED right. He never used his principles to direct his actions. He didn't really choose, as Luke did after ESB.

But we agree on the prophecy thing. Bad move,

but I was just saying that Anakin and Luke followed VERY similar paths, I just think that Anakin's road was much harder on a whole.

Yes Anakin had to leave his mother, whereas |Luke didnt have a choice because his Uncle and Aunt had been killed, Anakin had to leave his 'living' mother. Tougher choice. But Luke has been through quite a bit in the rebellion while the Jedi of old had a differen purpose...

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Yea, i felt like Lucas had just watched The Matrix or something when he wrote the screenplay...

but I was just saying that Anakin and Luke followed VERY similar paths, I just think that Anakin's road was much harder on a whole.

I don't think so. The point of similar roads is to have the same ordeals with different choices and therefore different outcomes. Luke's saves his ' soul' and that of his father.

No, similar means they can be easily compared, which as he showed, they can be.