Is rock dead and/or dying?

Originally posted by Devil King
Rock is not dead. And it certainly didn't die with that hack Kurt Cobain.

I imagine he became famous the same way Steve Martin chose to take that lamp with him at the end of The Jerk. Some producer was stumbling around Seattle and just pointed at him and said "Oh, I NEED this..."

You have to admit he was unique, and the band he was part of were innovative... Like a lot of other Seattle bands at the time... They were doing something that a lot of other bands at the time weren't...

Just like Motley Crue was innovative back in 1981... Love them or hate them, they were one of the originals that moved the whole genre forward, because of albums like "Too Fast for Love"...

And like Van Halen was innovative back in 1978 (Eruption, man!)... And etc. etc. etc.

There's my rant about innovations that has nothing to do with the current discussion...

Peace.

Originally posted by Bat Dude
You have to admit he was unique, and the band he was part of were innovative... Like a lot of other Seattle bands at the time... They were doing something that a lot of other bands at the time weren't...

Just like Motley Crue was innovative back in 1981... Love them or hate them, they were one of the originals that moved the whole genre forward, because of albums like "Too Fast for Love"...

And like Van Halen was innovative back in 1978 (Eruption, man!)... And etc. etc. etc.

There's my rant about innovations that has nothing to do with the current discussion...

Peace.

Eddie Van Halen not only innovated music, but guitars and guitar playing. Cobain, least of all, was an innovator. That's the thing you could probably praise him for the least. As for him being unique...most focused on, sure. Alice in Chains had a better, far more unique sound, as did Soundgarden.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Eddie Van Halen not only innovated music, but guitars and guitar playing. Cobain, least of all, was an innovator. That's the thing you could probably praise him for the least. As for him being unique...most focused on, sure. Alice in Chains had a better, far more unique sound, as did Soundgarden.

-AC

Oh, I'm by NO means comparing Eddie Van Halen's ability to Kurt Cobain's ability, cuz Van Halen wins hands down... (No offense to Cobain, R.I.P.)

I'm just saying that Cobain and Nirvana had their fair share of innovations... (While maybe not as many as others, but they had a few)

Like what?

They may have been innovative to the mainstream, but they honestly were not doing anything that other bands from their own scene were doing better than them, in my opinion.

They just got famous first and most of all. This, in turn, caused a change in music, but that probably would have happened had any of those bands came forth. In fact, Nirvana succeeded mostly cos they were a relatable band to the youth of that term. It wasn't necessarily innovative, they weren't ahead of anything by their own doing.

It was more right place/right time.

-AC

Nirvana were important pioneers, not really innovators. Creative, not original.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Eddie Van Halen not only innovated music, but guitars and guitar playing. Cobain, least of all, was an innovator. That's the thing you could probably praise him for the least. As for him being unique...most focused on, sure. Alice in Chains had a better, far more unique sound, as did Soundgarden.

-AC

Malmsteen is another guy that really changed guitar playing in metal when he pioneered the sweep, another technique long in use in jazz already.

Originally posted by Nellinator
Nirvana were important pioneers, not really innovators. Creative, not original.
Van Halen changed guitars and guitar playing more than music imo. Then again, most of the techniques we pioneered had been used in jazz for a long time, like tapping. He put it in a rock song and blew people's minds...

Malmsteen is another guy that really changed guitar playing in metal when he pioneered the sweep, another technique long in use in jazz already.

I think that's pretty unfair, though.

Ok, so tapping was used before Van Halen, but he pretty much made the technique his own as well as bursting through a warphole with it. I think it's personally a bit cheap to say "People did it before.", yeah they did, but hardly anything like Van Halen.

It's a bit like saying "Yeah, people played drums at Africa's Gong Rock since...the dawn of time. You can't really give Terry Bozzio that much credit.".

-AC

I gave him lots of credit for it. I agree that he changed guitar playing in rock. That's an incredible achievement. There are only a handful that have really done that.

Ace Frehley was fret-tapping loooooooooong before EVH. Evidenced as far back as '74.

I just wanna know who takes credit for "creating" the atypical hardcore neck slide intro?

Originally posted by Cory Chaos
Ace Frehley was fret-tapping loooooooooong before EVH. Evidenced as far back as '74.

I just wanna know who takes credit for "creating" the atypical hardcore neck slide intro?

Rock is FAR from being dead (or dying for that matter). It is in fact very much alive and kicking. You just need to know where to look.

Originally posted by Nellinator
However, EVH did apparently bring in the unlocking tremolo which is what he turned his back to audiences to hide from what I've heard.

1- wtf is an unlocking tremolo?

2- if that was the case he would have his back to the audience the entire time, wouldnt he?

truth: very early on he would turn his back while playing certain licks to prevent others from studying and learning them.

1) Meant a locking tremolo or whammy bar as I suppose it is more commonly known. He pioneered it apparently.

2) No, it was quite easy to hide.

Speculation: It could have been both.

fact: you are mistaken

there was no reason to hide the tremolo. you cant hide a tremelo (without maybe freakishly giant hands). he didnt hide the tremolo.

He didn't hide the existence of the tremolo because tremolos were in long use. I'll ask my friend again what was special about Van Halen's but I think it was a double locking tremolo or a fine tuner or something to that effect that basically no one else was using.

He patented certain guitar parts and inventions, or uses.

I don't think that's any connection to why he turned away, I'm pretty sure that was as Schecter said, to hide his techniques.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I think that's slightly unfair.

Just because Nirvana were vastly overrated, not even the best of the "grunge" bands to come out, doesn't mean Cobain was a hack by ANY means.

My opinion of how The Beatles are rated is well known, I still think they're a good band though.

-AC

I do not think it's unfair.

I think he was a hack, an over-hyped hack.

You have your opinion on the matter, as do I. You make such a big deal out of "innovation". And that's all well and good. But there's a lot to be said for perfecting a style of music. The person who comes up with something, doesn't by virtue, imply they're the best at it or that they're the only ones who can take it as far as it can go. And that's just my opinion of his music.

Anyone who offs themselves under the guise of their own genius overwhelming them, is just stupid.

But, I can say this for the man. He had the balls to do it. He didn't just wander around for 20 years of his life, being depressed and overwhelmed by himself. Cobain followed through on his own wasted depression. An example not many others had the chutzpah to follow.

Define hack.

Him offing himself has nothing to do with the music. Cobain definitely didn't invent the style. He is widely credited with perfecting it.

Originally posted by Nellinator
Define hack.

Him offing himself has nothing to do with the music. Cobain definitely didn't invent the style. He is widely credited with perfecting it.

And you'll notice I seperated my statements. One addressed the man, the other his music.

From dictionary.com:

Hack: n. Kurt Cobain

"Christianity and Rock and Roll are the two most influential things in Western society, and I don't know which wil die first." -- John Lennon

That quote more or less asks the question, it doesn't answer it.

-AC