Originally posted by llagrok
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee304/IronFistRespect/vs/sabretooth2/03.jpgLooks like a KO to me.
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee304/IronFistRespect/vs/Sabertooth1/Iron_Fist_14-22.jpg
This too.
Both against pre HF sabes.. 😐
Originally posted by llagrok
Jinzin doesn't take Alfheim seriously?Wow, I bet you hurt him now.
So tell me, what do you do when your NOT obsessing over me?
Originally posted by Soljer😂
Also note, I was merely quoting Alfheim himself on 'crehsok, myself, and Jinzin.'Honestly, I repeat; pretty much ANY reasonable poster who knows what they're talking about, and has seen you post on more than an occasion or two?
They know you're full of shit.
Am I in the reasonable list? 😛
Originally posted by jinzin
as to the fight.. both characters have had upgrades. IF's last fight with Sabes wasn't going too hot for Danny till the intervention of the plot device.. but I would still say I want to see what Danny can do NOW before initiating my judgement..
Surely you must realize that in their last fight, where he DIDN'T look so hot (but still won) Iron Fist had never really been further off his game.
Not saying who I think would win.
Just pointing out that in their last fight, Danny was ridiculously 'rusty' and less powerful than he'd ever been up to that point.
Currently, however, he is MORE skilled and MORE powerful than he's ever been.
Just something to take into account.
EDIT: For example, look at scan 05 and 06. Not only is his chi completely out of line (he can't call upon the Iron Fist), but he acknowledged that he's fighting like a complete amateur. "This is some of the worst fighting I've ever done."
I believe it was earlier in that particular issue where Danny noted that being on a team for so long had made him rusty, made his skills unfocused. His poor showing against Sabretooth seemed to be, very much, attributed to that fact.
Oh yes, I know that he was having major issues unifying his body and chi. If anything I think it kinda proves that Sabretooth IS superhuman since IF couldn't really keep up with him.
Though I do think that part of his poor performance was that his focus was in some pretty bad shape after Sabretooth scored that first claw shot on him.
Originally posted by jinzin
Oh yes, I know that he was having major issues unifying his body and chi. If anything I think it kinda proves that Sabretooth IS superhuman since IF couldn't really keep up with him.
If anything, I think it kinda proves that if Sabretooth IS superhuman, he is barely so, since Iron Fist was still keeping up with him (and won) even though he couldn't chi amp, couldn't use the Iron Fist, and was fighting like a moron.
😬.
Originally posted by jinzin
Though I do think that part of his poor performance was that his focus was in some pretty bad shape after Sabretooth scored that first claw shot on him.
If that issue was during the 'arc' I recall, it wasn't Sabretooth in particular whom he lacked focus with. As I mentioned, his time with a 'team' had totally ruined him; that arc dealt with him fighting without focus no matter his opponent.
BUT:
Regardless of that, with CURRENT Danny, he won't be fighting without focus, he won't be fighting without chi amp, and he won't be fighting without the Iron Fist.
He'll be leaps and bounds above the Iron Fist in those scans.
I don't really read it that way.. Sabretooth landed like what 4 to 7 shots before Danny was able to land one.. and the one he landed was one that sabretooth let him..
Danny "won" because his ass got lucky enough to have an electrical circuit box where Sabretooth landed and then ran as the place caved in.. Without the plot device, Sabretooth would have just got back up and continued to stomp him till he bled out or something..
Originally posted by jinzin
I don't really read it that way.. Sabretooth landed like what 4 to 7 shots before Danny was able to land one.. and the one he landed was one that sabretooth let him..Danny "won" because his ass got lucky enough to have an electrical circuit box where Sabretooth landed and then ran as the place caved in.. Without the plot device, Sabretooth would have just got back up and continued to stomp him till he bled out or something..
Maybe, maybe not.
Probably? Sure.
But the fact of the matter is; Iron Fist has never been weaker than he was when he appeared in those scans.
How well or poorly he did in those scans is of next to no relevance to current Danny who, again, is LEAPS AND BOUNDS above any previous appearance.
Originally posted by Soljer
Maybe, maybe not.Probably? Sure.
But the fact of the matter is; Iron Fist has never been weaker than he was when he appeared in those scans.
How well or poorly he did in those scans is of next to no relevance to current Danny who, again, is LEAPS AND BOUNDS above any previous appearance.
Weaker? I don't know about that.. he had problems with focus and his chi amping... but you're talking about him as if he were ill or injured.. He was just experiencing some pretty bad CIS.. something Sabes does on regular occasion.
Current Danny still needs conclusive proof as to such.. As far as I've been made aware things are fairly ambiguous at best with him right now. 😬
Originally posted by jinzin
Weaker? I don't know about that.. he had problems with focus and his chi amping... but you're talking about him as if he were ill or injured.. He was just experiencing some pretty bad CIS.. something Sabes does on regular occasion.Current Danny still needs conclusive proof as to such.. As far as I've been made aware things are fairly ambiguous at best with him right now. 😬
Weaker? Absolutely.
He couldn't focus his chi. Without focusing his chi, his strength, speed, and durability are at below-peak human levels.
As far as current Danny....he's caught a bullet with his back turned, with absolutely no line of sight to the shooter, while poisoned.
He's learned dozens more killing techniques. His chi reservoir has more than doubled. If he's given even a moment free in the fight, he can close his eyes, meditate, and heal any wounds sustained without draining himself in the least. He can use the Iron Fist attack at range, he's learned ways of attacking with chi WITHOUT actually activating the Iron Fist itself, his senses have been heightened to the point where he can hear someone sweating....
Not to mention the fact that even classic Iron Fist could weave through bullets, bring down buildings with his Iron Fist, knock out the best of the best, beat someone who trained for centuries solely to fight him, was strong enough to punch through a solid steel girder WITHOUT using the Iron Fist, oh and he was capable of breaking out of the crimson bands of Cytorrak.
Not to mention, even with a healing factor now, Iron Fist's history with Creed hasn't been erased. He knows how Creed fights, and will be able to read him like a book.
And, as Creed's last few appearances were WITHOUT adamantium, a chi-enhanced strike, or (god-forbid) the Iron Fist itself would be capable of rending Creed in two.
Originally posted by Soljer
Weaker? Absolutely.He couldn't focus his chi. Without focusing his chi, his strength, speed, and durability are at below-peak human levels.
Danny's not exactly helpless without his Chi amping, he still has plenty of feats without it. So I again, don't feel that "it's the weekest he's ever been" is a totally valid argument.. a bit of an exaggeration. 😬
Originally posted by Soljer
As far as current Danny....he's caught a bullet with his back turned, with absolutely no line of sight to the shooter, while poisoned.He's learned dozens more killing techniques. His chi reservoir has more than doubled. If he's given even a moment free in the fight, he can close his eyes, meditate, and heal any wounds sustained without draining himself in the least. He can use the Iron Fist attack at range, he's learned ways of attacking with chi WITHOUT actually activating the Iron Fist itself, his senses have been heightened to the point where he can hear someone sweating....
That's some pretty impressive stuff. Has he had many fights since? Has he done the healing trick?
Originally posted by Soljer
Not to mention the fact that even classic Iron Fist could weave through bullets, bring down buildings with his Iron Fist, knock out the best of the best, beat someone who trained for centuries solely to fight him, was strong enough to punch through a solid steel girder WITHOUT using the Iron Fist, oh and he was capable of breaking out of the crimson bands of Cytorrak.
Originally posted by Soljer
Not to mention, even with a healing factor now, Iron Fist's history with Creed hasn't been erased. He knows how Creed fights, and will be able to read him like a book.
Originally posted by Soljer
And, as Creed's last few appearances were WITHOUT adamantium, a chi-enhanced strike, or (god-forbid) the Iron Fist itself would be capable of rending Creed in two.
A bit of Wishful thinking on your part.
Sabretooth's muscles were so dense Warbird couldn't use a nerve pinch on him.
He took multiple shots from her, Rogue, and Killpower without suffering too much damage at all.. His AOA counterpart has been able to deal with shots from Holocaust and Maestro Hulk.
If what Mungi said was correct about his 4 part series, he was taking shots to the face from Sasquatch and standing up to them (in a flashback) before his adamantium.
Besides that, I find it highly unlikely seeing how Danny's already hit Sabretooth with the Iron Fist in Fanfare 6 and it barely phazed Sabretooth. 😕
Originally posted by jinzin
Danny's not exactly helpless without his Chi amping, he still has plenty of feats without it. So I again, don't feel that "it's the weekest he's ever been" is a totally valid argument.. a bit of an exaggeration. 😬
It's hardly an exaggeration. Sure, he has some feats to his name without chi-amping. But without chi-amping, AND without his top-tier skills? Nah.
Originally posted by jinzinThat's some pretty impressive stuff. Has he had many fights since? Has he done the healing trick?
Originally posted by jinzin
indeed.
Awww...
I wanted a LITTLE more response. At least to breaking out of the friggin crimson bands! 😛. I thought that was a kick ass feat...
Originally posted by jinzin
Meh, the first fight they had Sabretooth didn't even have fighting skills written has part of his character. The second fight wasn't much to draw any conclusions about. neither was their third encounter..
And their forth fight, Iron Fist got clobbered the whole way through. He doesn't "know" Sabretooth.. far from it.
Oh. And I wasn't aware they had a fourth fight - where?
Originally posted by jinzin
A bit of Wishful thinking on your part.Sabretooth's muscles were so dense Warbird couldn't use a nerve pinch on him.
He took multiple shots from her, Rogue, and Killpower without suffering too much damage at all.. His AOA counterpart has been able to deal with shots from Holocaust and Maestro Hulk.
If what Mungi said was correct about his 4 part series, he was taking shots to the face from Sasquatch and standing up to them (in a flashback) before his adamantium.Besides that, I find it highly unlikely seeing how Danny's already hit Sabretooth with the Iron Fist in Fanfare 6 and it barely phazed Sabretooth. 😕
AoA? Meh to that. It's AoA. Might as well have me bring up Exiles Iron Fist punching a hole in Colossus....
Wolverine slices up Creed no problem, but could only score Colossus. Exiles Iron Fist punched a hole in him. 😐.
But, like AoA, exiles doesn't matter much, hm? (And I'm well aware that Exiles Sabretooth is kinda ridiculous. I'm not actually trying to bring exiles into this. Just more non-canon stuff.)
I will admit that I underrate Sabretooth's durability a bit, but simply out of ignorance. I'm not too arrogant to admit when I don't know everything about a character.
But, acting like Danny Rand couldn't affect Sabretooth is ludicrous. He can knock around the top-bricks with it and destroy buildings, but can't phase sabretooth?
*Shrugs*
Again, I don't know quite a bit enough about sabretooth to give an accurate estimation on this fight. And I kind of doubt that you know enough about Danny to do the same.
However, we both seem more than happy to defend either character when challenged...😛.
Originally posted by jinzin
lol, Don't worry. Like I said it was more of an "encounter" than a fight, Danny was distracted and Sabretooth basically ran through him and tossed him into a bookshelf.. It's only breifly talked about right before Luke heads off to challenge Sabretooth in their first fight.
Yay!
Jinzin gave me an excuse.
Now, then....
*ignores fourth fight*.
😛.
Originally posted by Soljer
It's hardly an exaggeration. Sure, he has some feats to his name without chi-amping. But without chi-amping, AND without his top-tier skills? Nah.
And his fighting, it's questionable as to why he felt it was so bad.. once again the indications to his lack of focus due to tha pain that Sabretooth was already inflicting.. well...
Originally posted by Soljer
Many fights? Not really. Against hydra and against another immortal weapon.
That's sucks, judgement will then stay reserved.... for now.
Originally posted by Soljer
Awww...I wanted a LITTLE more response. At least to breaking out of the friggin crimson bands! 😛. I thought that was a kick ass feat...
lol, sorry, I know how impressive classic Iron Fist is/was it's not news to me.. hehe.
Originally posted by Soljer
Regardless of whether he was WRITTEN with fighting skills or not, he was retconned into them. 😬.
Like I don't know that.. 😐
I think I didn't really adress my point very well..
Okay... either the first fight doesn't help because it wasn't against the characterization of Sabretooth we know today, OR it doesn't help because it shows that Danny couldn't even recognize that Sabretooth uses fighting skill... Either way it's a bad example to prove that he "knows" Sabes in the fighting department.
Originally posted by Soljer
The addition of them to his character doesn't change their past. Iron Fist has fought with sabretooth several times. They're familiar with each other by now.
Familiar sure.. familiar to a point where you can make the claim that Iron Fist knows how Sabretooth fights? nu-uh..
Originally posted by Soljer
AoA? Meh to that. It's AoA. Might as well have me bring up Exiles Iron Fist punching a hole in Colossus....
Originally posted by Soljer
Wolverine slices up Creed no problem, but could only score Colossus. Exiles Iron Fist punched a hole in him. 😐.
So what? We don't know that that's all Wolverine can do to Colossus.. 😬
I mean Colossus seems to be under the impression that Wolverine can cut him to the bone.
Wolverine's "scored" Punisher and Daredevil in the exact same fashion.. just because he didn't cleave Peter in two doesn't mean that he absolutely can't..
Originally posted by Soljer
But, like AoA, exiles doesn't matter much, hm? (And I'm well aware that Exiles Sabretooth is kinda ridiculous. I'm not actually trying to bring exiles into this. Just more non-canon stuff.)
Originally posted by Soljer
I will admit that I underrate Sabretooth's durability a bit, but simply out of ignorance. I'm not too arrogant to admit when I don't know everything about a character.But, acting like Danny Rand couldn't affect Sabretooth is ludicrous. He can knock around the top-bricks with it and destroy buildings, but can't phase sabretooth?
*Shrugs*
I'm not acting like anything... I'm stating what happened.. As far as I'm aware none of my personal bias or opinion went into that statement.. 😕
Originally posted by Soljer
Again, I don't know quite a bit enough about sabretooth to give an accurate estimation on this fight. And I kind of doubt that you know enough about Danny to do the same.
Originally posted by SoljerOnly in fights I think he can win. 😉
However, we both seem more than happy to defend either character when challenged...😛.
