Iron Fist versus Sabretooth

Originally posted by jinzin
Impling he's helpess without chi amping is QUITE an exaggeration.. especially when he's staved off Luke without it.

Not helpless. I hope I never said helpless.

But, besides this fight, Danny's almost always had his Chi. Besides this (and a few other fights in the arc) he's always had his skills to rely on. In this instance, he had neither. It isn't an exaggeration to say that the few issues where his chi was unfocused, and he was unable to use his top-tier skills were the very same ones where he was weaker than he'd ever been on panel before or since. Any other time, he'd had his skills. That would have made him 'stronger' over-all. Most other times, he'd have had his chi. That would have made him 'stronger' over-all.

Originally posted by jinzin

And his fighting, it's questionable as to why he felt it was so bad.. once again the indications to his lack of focus due to tha pain that Sabretooth was already inflicting.. well...

But I've already told you. Perhaps he was further put off by Sabretooth's damage, but it's doubtful considering he's taken worse punishment in the past without faltering.

In the arc, he was pretty much left without his skills. It had nothing to do with sabretooth's attacks.

Originally posted by jinzin

That's sucks, judgement will then stay reserved.... for now.

....Kay. Don't know why I even quoted this. Not really anything to respond to, so, I'll just continue. 😛.

Originally posted by jinzin

lol, sorry, I know how impressive classic Iron Fist is/was it's not news to me.. hehe.

As far as I knew, not many knew about the cytorrak feat, but props to you for it.

Originally posted by jinzin

Like I don't know that.. 😐

I think I didn't really adress my point very well..

Okay... either the first fight doesn't help because it wasn't against the characterization of Sabretooth we know today, OR it doesn't help because it shows that Danny couldn't even recognize that Sabretooth uses fighting skill... Either way it's a bad example to prove that he "knows" Sabes in the fighting department.

Why would it be a bad example? They've fought three (apparently four) times. 😐.

Originally posted by jinzin

There might be validity to that, IF has beaten Colossus in CoC II afterall.

Like I don't know that. 😐.

Never showed him getting a hole punched in him, though.

Originally posted by jinzin

So what? We don't know that that's all Wolverine can do to Colossus.. 😬
I mean Colossus seems to be under the impression that Wolverine can cut him to the bone.

Wolverine's "scored" Punisher and Daredevil in the exact same fashion.. just because he didn't cleave Peter in two doesn't mean that he absolutely can't..

You know good and well that it was never supposed to be a point in favor of Iron Fist. It was just one more example on non-canon material. It simply doesn't matter. Save your crusade about Wolverine vs. Colossus for the Wolverine vs. Colossus thread.

Originally posted by jinzin

It's just that AOA Sabes and 616 Sabes are very VERY similar in abilities and stats from all appearances.

Good for them. Non canon is non canon.

Originally posted by jinzin

I'm not acting like anything... I'm stating what happened.. As far as I'm aware none of my personal bias or opinion went into that statement.. 😕

Sure, and Danny's also hit street levellers with the Iron Fist without breaking THEM in half, too. The amount of chi he forces into his fist can vary from one extreme to another. I'm just saying that, obviously, he didn't put too much into it that time. 🙂.

Originally posted by jinzin

Classic Danny yes, current Danny, no and I've already admitted that. 😐

Kay, kay.

Originally posted by jinzin

Only in fights I think he can win. 😉

As I've already said; I don't know enough about current Sabretooth to judge him against Classic or Current Iron Fist, hence me not giving my opinion on odds.

Just defending a character I'm a fan of. Making sure people know both sides before they go out to give their own opinion. 🙂.

Originally posted by Soljer
Not helpless. I hope I never said helpless.

Originally posted by Soljer
But, besides this fight, Danny's almost always had his Chi. Besides this (and a few other fights in the arc) he's always had his skills to rely on. In this instance, he had neither.

that's incorrect, he clearly had both, it was just the focus to use both wasn't there and he half-attributed that to the pain that Sabretooth was dishing out.. if he didn't have his chi he wouldn't have wound up using it.. he was just having problems getting it to work properly.

Originally posted by Soljer
it isn't an exaggeration to say that the few issues where his chi was unfocused, and he was unable to use his top-tier skills were the very same ones where he was weaker than he'd ever been on panel before or since. Any other time, he'd had his skills. That would have made him 'stronger' over-all. Most other times, he'd have had his chi. That would have made him 'stronger' over-all.

Originally posted by Soljer
But I've already told you. Perhaps he was further put off by Sabretooth's damage, but it's doubtful considering he's taken worse punishment in the past without faltering.

Originally posted by Soljer
In the arc, he was pretty much left without his skills. It had nothing to do with sabretooth's attacks.

Originally posted by Soljer
Why would it be a bad example? They've fought three (apparently four) times. 😐.

I thought I just explained why.. 😕

Originally posted by Soljer
Never showed him getting a hole punched in him, though.

Yeah, but then again it didn't show much of anything.

and fine to the W vs C thread lol.

Originally posted by Soljer
Good for them. Non canon is non canon.

Originally posted by Soljer
Sure, and Danny's also hit street levellers with the Iron Fist without breaking THEM in half, too. The amount of chi he forces into his fist can vary from one extreme to another. I'm just saying that, obviously, he didn't put too much into it that time. 🙂.

Originally posted by Soljer
As I've already said; I don't know enough about current Sabretooth to judge him against Classic or Current Iron Fist, hence me not giving my opinion on odds.

Just defending a character I'm a fan of. Making sure people know both sides before they go out to give their own opinion. 🙂.

Now dammit Soljer.. I need sleep.. where can we agree to disagree here and under what terms?

Originally posted by jinzin
no it's just that way you came off implying.

Originally posted by jinzin

that's incorrect, he clearly had both, it was just the focus to use both wasn't there and he half-attributed that to the pain that Sabretooth was dishing out.. if he didn't have his chi he wouldn't have wound up using it.. he was just having problems getting it to work properly.

It is when you're making an argument that portrays Sabretooth as having NOTHING to do with those circumstances in the first place.

Then he was weaker than ever.

Originally posted by jinzin

As I said it's an outliner used to illustrate a point that already exists in canon..

Someone could easily say that what the Silver Surfer accomplished in requiem would be well within his abilities to do. There are plenty of 'points' that exist in canon to support this. However, non canon is non canon.

Originally posted by jinzin

Well if we're going to argue to the negative.. then... How many people HAS he cleaved in half? 😉
My point is simply that "obviously" you can't make an argument that Danny can do something like that to Sabretooth when Sabretooth's entire career dictates a bit of the opposite.

Orson Randall, a much weaker Iron Fist, however, did punch an attacker in two in one of the more recent issues. He was kinda, you know, the type to hold back a little less. 😉.

Originally posted by jinzin

fair enough.

Now dammit Soljer.. I need sleep.. where can we agree to disagree here and under what terms?

😆

I dunno, it's not like I'm arguing odds, you know? All I really know of Sabretooth is what I've seen in his few appearances that I own, and what I've heard from you here on KMC.

From THAT (admittedly limited) information, I think it's well within classic danny's ability to take a few wins (definitely not a majority), and likely within current Danny's abilities to take a split.

Again, though, I've admitted my ignorance. And because of that, I won't be saying that I firmly believe that. 🙂. Go get some sleep, friend.

Originally posted by Soljer
It's merely what you inferred. Certainly not what I meant to imply.

Originally posted by Soljer
Like I said; when, besides then, has Iron Fist been barred from his Chi AND lacking in his skills? Ever? Before then? Since then?

Then he was weaker than ever.

Originally posted by Soljer
But you simply can't.

Someone could easily say that what the Silver Surfer accomplished in requiem would be well within his abilities to do. There are plenty of 'points' that exist in canon to support this. However, non canon is non canon.

I think I can when there's evidence that exists to support a point from both timelines as consistent.. when there are clear cut inconsistencies to 616 sure non canon can be dismissed far more easily.. but when evidence and on panel suggestions support parallels I can't help but draw conclusions from a non-canon source that parallels 616.

Originally posted by Soljer
How many has danny himself cleaved in half? Meh.

Orson Randall, a much weaker Iron Fist, however, did punch an attacker in two in one of the more recent issues. He was kinda, you know, the type to hold back a little less. 😉.

Originally posted by Soljer
😆

I dunno, it's not like I'm arguing odds, you know? All I really know of Sabretooth is what I've seen in his few appearances that I own, and what I've heard from you here on KMC.

And I would totally change that if I could just get the Wolvie respect thread outa the way. lol

Originally posted by Soljer
From THAT (admittedly limited) information, I think it's well within classic danny's ability to take a few wins (definitely not a majority), and likely within current Danny's abilities to take a split.

Originally posted by Soljer
Again, though, I've admitted my ignorance. And because of that, I won't be saying that I firmly believe that. 🙂. Go get some sleep, friend.

Ahh KMC the comic addicts drug.

Originally posted by jinzin

Agreed to classic Danny...
Depending on upcoming feats from Danny current IF could/might pull off a majority but he's gotta prove himself past hyperbole I think.

hehe.. I'll try....

Ahh KMC the comic addicts drug.

*ignores everything else*

HA! Danny could take a majority. 😖hifty:.

😛.

Anyways, gnight, friend.