Namor, The Sub-Mariner vs Wolverine

Started by jinzin163 pages
jinzin Senior Member
Originally posted by Melnorme
Wolverine feels pain, doesn't he? To my knowledge, practically every living thing on the planet has an automatic avoidance response to pain. That seems a good motivation to avoid being shot.

yeah he does.. but he also refers to pain as: "an old friend of mine" it's not as if he's exactly afraid of being hurt.. infact it was commented at the end of wolverine vol. I comic run that he actually thrives off of physical pain to help himself deal with the mental trauma that he has been subjected to...

Originally posted by Melnorme
In light of the above, I'd say nearly all the time, and relatively very seldom, respectively.

what exactly are you basing that answer off of again? 🤨

Originally posted by Melnorme
Needing to and wanting to are two different things. Yes, he could likely get the job done even having taken a hit, but if he's the "best at what he does", wouldn't that imply that he is efficient in his role? It necessarily follows that someone who hasn't been shot, and isn't in pain would perform a role better and more efficiently than someone who cannot say the same. .

funny that you should mention effeciency.. i was just about to comment on it... wierd... 😕
what's more effecient? dodging 50 bullets to avoid a little pain and spending a decent amount of time on the defensive to avoid being shot despite being able to function properly in spite of being shot and despite not caring much for the pain to really be all that effective?

orrrrrr

running through the bullets being relatively not effected by them and spending all the time on the offensive to kill the opposition faster with no long term ill effects?

Originally posted by Melnorme
This interpretation of yours is highly interpretive, and clearly illogical. The fact remains that Wolverine's feats don't appear to match up with what some of his fans are claiming in this thread.

how so? 🙄

jinzin Senior Member

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
If you ignore 68 years of Namor and base all your thinking on one comic...on the first fight, Namor wasn't even trying to fight Wolverien with all his fury until fourth page...
in spite of him fighting back with kicks punches and a TREE? 🤨 you're making an inaccurate inference here based on how you WANTED things to have happened...... ❌
and: no I'm not... but like I said.. two good showings in DIRECT comparisons show wolverine as a very dangerous foe for namor...but...
namor's faster and stronger he wins..
wolverine beats faster and stronger opponents.. opponents that give namor fits, and even namor himself... should that be ignored?

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
"First, Wolverine attacks. Namor tries to hold his hands off (you can see that in the first page).

cause wolverine was droping bombs on his face.. wouldn't you want to stop the hands of a guy who was raining blows upon you? 😕

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
"Namor is fed up, and hits Wolverine with minimal force.

complete and utter assumption.. nothing further...

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Wolverine slashes him, Namor dodges so he won't suffer bad wounds, and instead of punching Wolverine back, moves out.
to get behind wolverine to swing him around by the vine.... so what?

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Namor gets angry. Wolverine is dropped by one kick.

wrong.. he's not dropped.. he's just backed up.. which, from your argument for namor's strength makes sense.. however.. in spite of being hit back he's not knocked down.... hence.. not "dropped" as you keep suggesting...

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
The fight is stopped. On the first three pages, Namor didn't relly do anything agressive that would have showed that he was trying to put Wolverine down for good...on fourth page, he does, and puts down Wolverine with a simple kick and is about to hurt him more radically."

COMPLETELY BIASED CLAIMS YET AGAIN....
is there any way to tell namor wasn't being agressive? hell no...
in fact the story suggests otherwise.. they size eachother up in the span of a heartbeat.. namor tries to go in to h2h and gets cut up.... so he opts to go for the vine... good choice on his part... tossing wolvie around isn't aggresive enough for ya?
"but the other for his part, has speed"
wolverine closes ground and namor backs away to keep from being gutten until he kicks wolvie in the face.. then goes for the tree-batting...
the fight was one that went back and forth.. i could just as well assert my own bias for wolverine into this argument and say.. wolverine hit him with fists in the first part of the fight.. when he hit namor he decided to give him a glancing blow... he was obviously holding back.... (you and me both know that's an unfair and wrong assessment of the situation yet that's exactly how you're displaying this case...)
and stop saying "a simple kick" kicks deliver pound for pound more stopping power than punches? did it send wolverine flying for miles? nope..

how about put him down at least? nope.. didn't do that either..otherwise hitting him with that tree woulda been a hell of a lot easier...

did he at least hit the hairy bastard with the tree? hell no...

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Nope...Spider-Man and Firelord have on fight...where Spider-Man floored him with couple of punches. Does that mean Spider-Man > Firelord?

😂 any YES ANOTHER f.u.b.r.'ed assessment on things...
first off... there were TONS of plot devices and firelord CIS that went into that fight to give spiderman the victory...
firelord got a building blown up and dropped on top of him.. presumably hundreds of tons... THEN he got floored with a city block vaporizing explosion.. THEN he tried to toe to toe with a faster opponent who's a better h2h fighter than himself.. AND FINALLY there's an indication that the beating that spiderman put on firelord had a very lengthy duration..
your assumption here was about as convincing as your "simple kick" scenario.. 🙄

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Not really...I was arguing that character "should be able to do that".

doh

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Doesn't matter. It's adamantium, not vibranium. Just harder then normal metals. If Namor's punches topple battleships and move Hulk, and other things that weigh dozens of times more then Wolverine does, they will move Wolverine. Laws of physics apply at forums, nothing you can do to change it.

admantium absorbs no impact whatsoever.... none... zilth...zero... really?
did you read that somewhere? I sure as hell haven't.... is that another msguided assumption on your part? sounds like..
wolverine doesn't get sent flying miles by hulk half the damned time.. namor hitting him is completely in character for him.. maybe it is BS.. but like I said.. srank's already refuted this argument...

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
So he was obviously not hitting him with full force...because he has moved heavier things with his punches with ease...thus, holding back.
in spite of clear evidence that such is not the case.. 🙄

jinzin Senior Member

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
He shouted in pain when the slash hit him. He screamed like a girl when he stabbed and gutted him. Can you explain me why Wolverine's stab would hurt more then Ebony Sword hitting you and coming out from the other side? Or basically being next to miniature sun?

wolverine's first flash got an "ah!" outa namor.. that's not so unbelievable.. sounds more sursprised than hurt... and wolverine slashed him on the face there.. wouldn't you be worried a little bit if wolverine almost shredded your face off? 😕
stab: wolverine leaves three wounds... they don't cuaterize like a lazer blade.. and
finally.. getting gutted sucks.. that's a great reason to scream out in pain...
in comparison with your sword example... he seems very hurt and surprised by that wound... his actions afterwards are impressive indeed.. but not really comparible.. he wasn't stabbed three times and gutted immediately afterwards.. and he's fighting in water... water does make a difference as per your arguments... now why is it that you think having a high tolarance for pain makes one pain resistant? or immune to being gutted?

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Hmm...that's funny. Because on their first fight, where Namor also didn't really attack Wolverine besides the fourth page, his dodging made every swing Wolverine executed worthless...

hmm that's funny.. you're completely wrong yet again.. 🙄

for all of namor's meteor hopping speed.. and his lazer dodging he couldn't get out of the way of wolverine's speed blitz... 😂
were wolverine's swings worthless there? yeah only cause he didn't have his claws out... lucky for namor.. 😉
how many swings were made worthless by namor's "dodging" oh yeah.. one... 🤨

that's a 50% ratio.... not too bad.....

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
0,5 tons would be same to Namor as me lifting a mug from table. Maybe 0,01% of his strength. DO you say "unhh" when lifting a mug? "Unhh" every time when you drink from it?

no, buthow often do you or I chuck that mug at somebody in mid-fight? 😕

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Namor doesn't let ANY Atlantean to be killed. UN once took an citizen of Atlantis as prisoner, and he rallied an army force and invaded New York. And this citizen they captured had attacked Atlantis and bombed it before, so even if he doesn't particulary like someone, doesn't mean that he will let their murder to be unpunished.

which is why he started trading blows with the wolvster....

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
And he pretty much stood on one place on page three and four...
only as much as wolverine did.. when it came down to fighty time he was ready for one.. wasn't ready enough apparently...

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
It does look uncertain...something that Namor has never been...

oh yes it "looks" so uncertain... fists clenched, arms raised, and face grimacing... very uncertain... 🙄

that's about as viable as your "simple kick" comment...

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
I mean, that Wolverine slashed the tank first and then attacked Namor. Plenty of time to move out of the way of angry canadian.
again.. why would he move out of the way of an attack at the tanker? how do you know it wasn't:wolverine slashes at tanker... namor moves in to capitalize.. wolverine is faster than namor gives credit for and guts the fishman.... ?

simple fact is that you don't.. there are obviously gaps in the art.. wolverine inexplicably has one claw out and then all three.. and then none.. and then all three.. and then one out again.. and then all three out again.. there are however seldom snikts in the entire scenario.... thus there are obvious jump cuts in the sequence.. any inference you make about what happens between them is an assumption....

including the " wolverine didn't budge from namor's hits" argument... look at the fight again... it starts on the ground yet by the second hit wolverine's already on top of a giant generator from a punch of cables and pipes etc.... with no indication that he put himself there.. my guess is that it was a namor punch that did it... my guess is that those hits had him ping ponging around inside the complex.. but because there ARE sufficient jump cuts in the sequence it can be argued either way with no one interpretation being the right interpretation..

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
You haven't really contradicted anything either...

you must not be reading the argument.. sorry I can't argue in picture form...

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
But it is PIS...Namor could have dodged that stab...but apparently he did not chose to. So it's either Plot Induced Stupidity...or Character Induced...
or wolverine's faster than either you or namor are giving credit.. he was fast enough to speed blitz him rain blows upon him and slash him in the first fight... in the second nothing really changed.. we just saw what could have happened if the first fight wasn't intterupted...lol
if it was indeed character induced than what's the problem? cis isn't exempt from these matchups so who cares?

anyways.. Like I said.. i've already conceded that wolverine loses the majority... I just don't agree with your take on either fight and your option to ignore them based on subjective claims to PIS with evidence that contradicts it... we're not changing eachother's minds so why continue.. I said namor is the winna here.. are you not satisfied with that?

DarkCrawler KABOOOOM!!

Yeah, I am satisfied...whatever.

Namor's still done speed feats that exceed Wolverine's...but on their fights, he is slower? Sounds like PIS to me.

TheBig Bad Wolf Member

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Yeah, I am satisfied...whatever.

Namor's still done speed feats that exceed Wolverine's...but on their fights, he is slower? Sounds like PIS to me.

Sounds like he just wasnt that fast.....its not hard to make yourself look fast against a lesser opponent, but he comes up short when he fights the real deal.

DarkCrawler KABOOOOM!!
Originally posted by TheBig Bad Wolf
Sounds like he just wasnt that fast.....its not hard to make yourself look fast against a lesser opponent, but he comes up short when he fights the real deal.

Could Wolverine do anything even close to this with his hand speed?

http://img377.imageshack.us/my.php?image=namorspeedfeat428zm.gif

First four panels. Namor makes a detailed sculpture out of another in middle of sentence.

TheBig Bad Wolf Member

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Could Wolverine do anything even close to this with his hand speed?

http://img377.imageshack.us/my.php?image=namorspeedfeat428zm.gif

First four panels. Namor makes a detailed sculpture out of another in middle of sentence.

I thought they were fighting? not sculpting.........because no wolverine proabbly cant make pretty sculptures, but he sure can stab namor in the gut like a Namor-kabob.

DarkCrawler KABOOOOM!!
Originally posted by TheBig Bad Wolf
I thought they were fighting? not sculpting.........because no wolverine proabbly cant make pretty sculptures, but he sure can stab namor in the gut like a Namor-kabob.

🤨

I did not put it because of the sculpting...but because of the hand speed he showed there. It would take a normal man maybe a full day to sculp something like that...

jinzin Senior Member

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Yeah, I am satisfied...whatever.

Namor's still done speed feats that exceed Wolverine's...but on their fights, he is slower? Sounds like PIS to me.

or wolverine's far faster than you give him credit for....

his handspeed allows him to dice all of geis' armor off his body without cutting or stabbing his skins before he can even react to it.

he's also stacked a log by dicing it in under 30 seconds...

DarkCrawler KABOOOOM!!

Originally posted by jinzin
or wolverine's far faster than you give him credit for....

his handspeed allows him to dice all of geis' armor off his body without cutting or stabbing his skins before he can even react to it.

he's also stacked a log by dicing it in under 30 seconds...

And Namor's made an sophisticated sculpture while he is talking, something that I think requires even more speed...I think a normal person would spend a day doing something like that.

jinzin Senior Member

which one of these guys is normal? 😕

DarkCrawler KABOOOOM!!

Did I somehow imply that one of them is normal? 🤨

All I am saying, that Namor did the sculpture about a hundred times faster then a normal human being would have done. More then hundred times.

Black Adam Badass from Kahndaq

🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 💃 💃 💃

DarkCrawler KABOOOOM!!

No.

God, no.

Black Adam Badass from Kahndaq

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
No.

God, no.

Doing some random searches and i found this thread again.

Couldn't resist bumping it.

TheKahn The Dude abides

I'd go with Namor on this one. I think that he's in the 85 ton range now. He shoud be able to send Wolverine flying like the Wrecker did in New Avengers. Hey, I like Wolverine but Namor is faster, stronger,can fly, and I don't think he would be intimidated by Wolverine. He'd take it 7/10

DarkCrawler KABOOOOM!!
Originally posted by TheKahn
I'd go with Namor on this one. I think that he's in the 85 ton range now. He shoud be able to send Wolverine flying like the Wrecker did in New Avengers. Hey, I like Wolverine but Namor is faster, stronger,can fly, and I don't think he would be intimidated by Wolverine. He'd take it 7/10

Namor is at least in 100,000 ton range.

TheKahn The Dude abides
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Namor is at least in 100,000 ton range.

Then Wolverine flys even farther! 😄

jrodslam Senior Member

This thread should be burried and gone. I cant believe it lasted this long.

King_Mungi ...........

Wolverine wins 😮‍💨