World War Hulk Vs The Maestro

Originally posted by Larceny
WWH really didn't do anything.

In fact I haven't seen anything that Savage Hulk or Bannerless Hulk couldn't do if sufficiently angry enough.

So to a degree, Strength feats don't really prove anything versus another version of Hulk....unless fighting each other directly...since most versions of Hulk have dynamic strength potential...classified as unlimited.

see below 😐

Maestro Hulk has appeared in the 616 continuity and thus become part of the lineage of Hulk incarnations against which WWH is measured and remarked to be "the strongest he's ever been".

of course it could be remarked that people distinguish between 616-originated Hulk and Maestro Hulk, when they make such comments, but it doesn't seem likely as Maestro is merely 616-Hulk from further on in (what became) an alternative time-line and brought back into 616 continuity.

what's more likely is that post-Future Imperfect, the 616 timeline and the FI timeline diverged and WWH has zero impact upon and contribution to FI timeline. this is in fact what Maestro Hulk himself says. several times.

Maestro Hulk is not the future of 616, but merely one of many (infinite?) alternate timelines now, ever since they pulled Prof. Hulk into Maestro's time. this is the +only way+ of avoiding the "Grandfather Paradox", or else every blow and attack that Maestro landed upon Prof. Hulk would have instantly left a trace somewhere within Maestro's memory... and more importantly, Prof. Hulk would have been able to think Maestro out of existence, just by deciding not to become that way.

basically I am god to my future self, if it is at all possible to have my current and future selves simultaneously exist on some plane. he cannot be but the result of my active choices, and seeing him makes it easier to mould him by will/desire/memory...

anyway... all that waffle aside, it's patently obvious Maestro is both inferior in strength and durability. as the gamma bomb obliterated Maestro, whereas it would merely fuel someone like WWH/SSJ-WWH.

Originally posted by janus77
Maestro Hulk has appeared in the 616 continuity and thus become part of the lineage of Hulk incarnations against which WWH is measured and remarked to be "the strongest he's ever been".

of course it could be remarked that people distinguish between 616-originated Hulk and Maestro Hulk, when they make such comments, but it doesn't seem likely as Maestro is merely 616-Hulk from further on in (what became) an alternative time-line and brought back into 616 continuity.

what's more likely is that post-Future Imperfect, the 616 timeline and the FI timeline diverged and WWH has zero impact upon and contribution to FI timeline. this is in fact what Maestro Hulk himself says. several times.

Maestro Hulk is not the future of 616, but merely one of many (infinite?) alternate timelines now, ever since they pulled Prof. Hulk into Maestro's time. this is the +only way+ of avoiding the "Grandfather Paradox", or else every blow and attack that Maestro landed upon Prof. Hulk would have instantly left a trace somewhere within Maestro's memory... and more importantly, Prof. Hulk would have been able to [b]think Maestro out of existence, just by deciding not to become that way.

basically I am god to my future self, if it is at all possible to have my current and future selves simultaneously exist on some plane. he cannot be but the result of my active choices, and seeing him makes it easier to mould him by will/desire/memory...

anyway... all that waffle aside, it's patently obvious Maestro is both inferior in strength and durability. as the gamma bomb obliterated Maestro, whereas it would merely fuel someone like WWH/SSJ-WWH. [/B]

Yep.

Originally posted by janus77
Maestro Hulk has appeared in the 616 continuity and thus become part of the lineage of Hulk incarnations against which WWH is measured and remarked to be "the strongest he's ever been".

of course it could be remarked that people distinguish between 616-originated Hulk and Maestro Hulk, when they make such comments, but it doesn't seem likely as Maestro is merely 616-Hulk from further on in (what became) an alternative time-line and brought back into 616 continuity.

what's more likely is that post-Future Imperfect, the 616 timeline and the FI timeline diverged and WWH has zero impact upon and contribution to FI timeline. this is in fact what Maestro Hulk himself says. several times.

Maestro Hulk is not the future of 616, but merely one of many (infinite?) alternate timelines now, ever since they pulled Prof. Hulk into Maestro's time. this is the +only way+ of avoiding the "Grandfather Paradox", or else every blow and attack that Maestro landed upon Prof. Hulk would have instantly left a trace somewhere within Maestro's memory... and more importantly, Prof. Hulk would have been able to [b]think Maestro out of existence, just by deciding not to become that way.

basically I am god to my future self, if it is at all possible to have my current and future selves simultaneously exist on some plane. he cannot be but the result of my active choices, and seeing him makes it easier to mould him by will/desire/memory...

anyway... all that waffle aside, it's patently obvious Maestro is both inferior in strength and durability. as the gamma bomb obliterated Maestro, whereas it would merely fuel someone like WWH/SSJ-WWH. [/B]

1. Who is saying that he is the strongest he has ever been?

2. Does anybody realize that, even if he is the strongest he has ever been, it does not mean that he is the strongest he ever will be?

Originally posted by Kutulu
Going by raw physical feats on-panel WWH exceeds the Maestro with his stomp shaking the Eastern Seaboard, and holding the tectonic plates together on Sakaar.

At the time when the Exiles comic was written, WWH wasn't out yet. So technically them saying Maestro was the strongest Hulk would have been true, up until WWH came out. The second event takes precedent over the first when it comes to something being canon or not.

Also, the tectonic plate thing is crap. He would have had to be holding onto adamantium It would have crumbled.

Originally posted by Horrificus
1. Who is saying that he is the strongest he has ever been?

2. Does anybody realize that, even if he is the strongest he has ever been, it does not mean that he is the strongest he ever will be?

2b. Hulk broke Onslaught's armour... Maestro obviously isn't as strong as that instance.

2c. Maestro was written before Planet Hulk and in ignorance of the possibility of Planet Hulk, nevermind WWH.

2d. Maestro died as a result of +one+ gamma Bomb. WWH's taken nukes, nova flames, explosions that ripped a planet apart... durability and strength go hand-in-hand as far as Hulk is concerned.

2e. WWH's base strength was the result of his emotional and mental state. calm, calculating and focussed rage. emotion and mental focus are the basis of Hulk's powers. the gamma from nuclear wars etc is only marginally useful.

for logical proof of that think about how much - exponentially - stronger any Hulk gets when he's angry. where does that exponentially more vast power come from? does he suck gamma out of the atmosphere? no, it comes from the same dimension/universe as the bulk of all his power comes from. thus mental focus and emotional strength are the largest contributing factor to his power levels. without the focus and mental stability he can just become mindless or, like Maestro, insane.

as I've said before, the nuclear wars mean little of any significance. hell Hulk was made during one gamma bomb, yet all these years he's been doing incredible things... has he required another gamma bomb to help him?

when he cracked Onslaught's armour, did Reed Richards think about dropping a nuke on Hulk to increase his strength? no, because they all know "the madder Hulk gets, the stronger he gets" means that it is his mental state which dictates his physical ability.... all of which favours WWH way over Maestro. meditative mind versus insane and arrogant mind ❌...

Originally posted by Horrificus
The stomp did not shake the eastern seaboard, and even if it did, why do you conclude that Maestro cannot do it?

Also, the tectonic plate thing is crap. He would have had to be holding onto adamantium It would have crumbled.

the thing is that Maestro clearly wasn't that much stronger than Prof. Hulk and didn't have a significant physical advantage over him in their fights. and later when he possessed the Destroyer armour... he was even soundly beaten by Prof. Hulk.

WWH definitely seems to have it together and to have a far higher base-level. and as the Meik incident shows, he can quickly raise his levels to cosmic levels... also, the fight with Zom/Strange should that too...

hmmm.... wouldn't it be cool if the Hulk was able to tap into that power source, and learn to fly at light speeds? Just a thought. C'mon Marvel just give him the upgrade already.

😄

lol,
he'd still get killed by guys like Thanos, Silver Surfer etc...
as long as he can't control energy and matter at sub-atomic levels, he's not gonna challenge them.

but, given that he can change direction in the middle of a leap (just by application of sheer strength) I wouldn't be too surprised if he could do it.

indeed, I could sorta see it happening as an extension of his ability to grab energy fields... flying by leaping from energy fields and or grabbing at the magnetic fields of The Earth.

I like the character as he is, just awesome power but limited range and the need to apply that power creatively in order to attack more dynamic enemies (ie thunderclaps to compensate for lack of range-attack).

1. the narrative, Hulk, third-parties ...

2a. Maestro was marginally stronger than a marginally pissed Prof. Hulk. WWH is substantially stronger than a pissed off Prof. Hulk... and he got stronger still.

2b. Hulk broke Onslaught's armour... Maestro obviously isn't as strong as that instance.

2c. Maestro was written before Planet Hulk and in ignorance of the possibility of Planet Hulk, nevermind WWH.

2d. Maestro died as a result of +one+ gamma Bomb. WWH's taken nukes, nova flames, explosions that ripped a planet apart... durability and strength go hand-in-hand as far as Hulk is concerned.

2e. WWH's base strength was the result of his emotional and mental state. calm, calculating and focussed rage. emotion and mental focus are the basis of Hulk's powers. the gamma from nuclear wars etc is only marginally useful.

for logical proof of that think about how much - exponentially - stronger any Hulk gets when he's angry. where does that exponentially more vast power come from? does he suck gamma out of the atmosphere? no, it comes from the same dimension/universe as the bulk of all his power comes from. thus mental focus and emotional strength are the largest contributing factor to his power levels. without the focus and mental stability he can just become mindless or, like Maestro, insane.

as I've said before, the nuclear wars mean little of any significance. hell Hulk was made during one gamma bomb, yet all these years he's been doing incredible things... has he required another gamma bomb to help him?

when he cracked Onslaught's armour, did Reed Richards think about dropping a nuke on Hulk to increase his strength? no, because they all know "the madder Hulk gets, the stronger he gets" means that it is his mental state which dictates his physical ability.... all of which favours WWH way over Maestro. meditative mind versus insane and arrogant mind ❌...

You have gone against the profile of Hulk. You have said:

1. The radiation does not matter, and is not what gives Hulk his strength.
That's news to me. It has always been said that the anger is a trigger. And, even then, his strength upgrade was never instantaneous.
Maestro's situation just gave him the radiation feed without having to be angry. You are missing the entire point of the Maestro storyline.
Missing the point, and making up your own. It's silly.

2. You have stated that the writers did not know anything about the Maestro while they wrote the WWH story.
That is just goofy. I am not even going to argue this silly point.

3. You say that the narrator and characters stated that WWH was stronger than ever.
First of all, you are saying that the Narrator and characters in WWH should be paid attention to. Yet, the statements made about Maestro should be ignored.
Second, saying that WWH is stronger than ever before, still does not mean he is stronger than Maestro, since Maestro cam after WWH.

4. You say he is barely stronger than Prof Hulk.
Yet, he beat Prof Hulk into paste, the way NOBODY had ever done in all the Prof Hulk Stories.
And still, it is YOUR opinion.

5. WWH got beaten, hurt, broken and brought on his knees.
Yet, you say this is all proof that he is the strongest version ever.

In the end, everything you are saying, is your opinion.
The whole point to Maestro, is that he is the pinnacle of the Hulk's existence.
That's how he was written. That is what was said about him. That's the end of the story.
Until one of these Hulks beats him in a fight, Maestro is the guy to beat. Even if he doesn't have the feats on panel yet. It's just the way it is.

man that's just wrong ❌ ...

umm, Prof Hulk was holding his own against Maestro, Professor Hulk!
read Future Imperfect, you're seriously just sooo wrong.

and Maestro ISN'T the future "end point" (a hundred years? you think Thor dies in a hundred years? you think Surfer's gonna die in a hundred years? and in a FVCKING NUCLEAR WAR???), he's an +ALTERNATIVE TIMELINE+...

again I repeat, READ FUTURE IMPERFECT. heed The MAESTRO'S WORDS, HE IS NOT THE FUTURE OF 616 ❌.

I know you hate Hulk but, seriously you need therapy if you're this irrational and bewilderingly blinkered ❌.

Originally posted by janus77
man that's just wrong ❌ ...

umm, Prof Hulk was holding his own against Maestro, Professor Hulk!
read Future Imperfect, you're seriously just sooo wrong.

and Maestro ISN'T the future "end point" (a hundred years? you think Thor dies in a hundred years? you think Surfer's gonna die in a hundred years? and in a FVCKING NUCLEAR WAR???), he's an +ALTERNATIVE TIMELINE+...

again I repeat, READ FUTURE IMPERFECT. heed The MAESTRO'S WORDS, HE IS NOT THE FUTURE OF 616 ❌.

I know you hate Hulk but, seriously you need therapy if you're this irrational and bewilderingly blinkered ❌.

Nobody said those heroes died in a nuclear war. The point is that many of them died fighting the Maestro.

And, whether he is from 616 or not, his origin and the details going into it, are still the same, and are specifically detailed to create the most powerful version of the Hulk in all the realities, past, present or future.

Prof Hulk was NOT holding his own.

I am only bringing up stuff that is on panel.

All you have is your opinion. And, I am bored with it. And, I am bored with being insulted by fanboys.

Truth is, WWH was a broken, bleeding mess from the time he stepped on earth, to the time he turned back into Banner.

The big fights he got into were made specifically to NOT show a decisive winner.

maestro for the win imo.
no way was prof hulk holding his own. reading the comic, you get a sense that maestros just playing with him.
the only downside is his lack of on-panel feats. feats the wwh seem to have in spades.

Originally posted by coffeeguy
maestro for the win imo.
no way was prof hulk holding his own. reading the comic, you get a sense that maestros just playing with him.
the only downside is his lack of on-panel feats. feats the wwh seem to have in spades.

I thought the trophy room was were Maestro kept relics of the dead heroes. They died in the wars and he hid out. I thought he said as much himself.

I still think Maestro would take WWH however.

the trophy room, that future ... it's all bogus and irrelevant. simply put, Maestro is not the future evolution of WWH, thus has nothing of the power developments that WWH has. nothing of the meditation, the focus, the harmony between the Banner persona and the Hulk persona...

and more importantly, emotional/mental strength IS the means by which he unleashes his powers. the ambient nuclear radiation that he may pick up is never shown as being as effective as a change in his stress/determination/rage levels. simple as that really.

To be fair its hard to say who would win between the Maestro and WWH. Maestro did beat MergedProff. Hulk to a pulp, even though Merged Hulk's power incrfeased with his anger. This is b'cos Maestro has a base level of 200ton Strength and Merged had a base of 100tons. WWH has a high base level maybe not as highg as Maestro. However Maestro was created as a possible future version of Merged Hulk, over a decade b4 Marvel came up with WWH- so he won't have the battle skills of WWH

I thought the trophy room was were Maestro kept relics of the dead heroes. They died in the wars and he hid out. I thought he said as much himself.

I still think Maestro would take WWH however.

the trophy room, that future ... it's all bogus and irrelevant. simply put, Maestro is not the future evolution of WWH, thus has nothing of the power developments that WWH has. nothing of the meditation, the focus, the harmony between the Banner persona and the Hulk persona...

and more importantly, emotional/mental strength IS the means by which he unleashes his powers. the ambient nuclear radiation that he may pick up is never shown as being as effective as a change in his stress/determination/rage levels. simple as that really.

To be fair its hard to say who would win between the Maestro and WWH. Maestro did beat MergedProff. Hulk to a pulp, even though Merged Hulk's power incrfeased with his anger. This is b'cos Maestro has a base level of 200ton Strength and Merged had a base of 100tons. WWH has a high base level maybe not as highg as Maestro. However Maestro was created as a possible future version of Merged Hulk, over a decade b4 Marvel came up with WWH- so he won't have the battle skills of WWH