The Ultimates Vs Ultimate X-Men

Originally posted by llagrok
- Thor was affected by Loki's illusions at first, but was able to resist them later on.

Which doesn't prove resistance to telepathy.

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Originally posted by llagrok
Does the Hulk know that he has a particular weakness that makes him turn back into Banner? I don't think so.

The Cerebro acts as a psychic MRI. PLUS they have SHIELD files on the Hulk. They already practiced it out in the Danger Room.

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Originally posted by llagrok
Hawkeye isn't a speedster? He was pretty impressive when he managed to shoot 5 armed guards before they got him, when they were standing 10 inches away.

What street-leveler hasn't done that?

😬

Are you suggesting Hawkeye has superspeed?

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Originally posted by llagrok
Survive Quicksilver's speedblitz? Have you seen how fast he is?

Which will be useless against a phased Jean. Plus Rogue has the power to "mimic" rather absorb powers now. She can copy Jean's and Kitty's/Peter's powers without weakening them now.

Than they'll have TWO damn psychics on the team.

Originally posted by llagrok
-Also, phasing Jean while she uses her telepathy or telekinesis? I've never seen them do that. It's a pretty basic strategy and seeing as they've never used it, it's reasonable to believe it won't work. Especially seeing as Emma was unable to take over Kitty's mind while she was being phased all the way down underground.

1) They've already done this on many occasions. Most recently against Future Cable's squad when they were lead by Bishop.

2) You haven't been reading Ult. X-Men.

3) Ult. Emma doesn't have telepathy. You're referring to Astonishing X-Men. In that reference, Kitty was phasing Emma through sheer rock. Emma wasn't going to take the gamble of having her brains merged with granite if Kitty resisted her telepathy.

4) Jean's powers work with Kitty

Originally posted by llagrok
-That was 616, but I'm pretty sure the same rules apply in the Ultimate universe.

Ultimate is a completely different animal from 616....

😬

Originally posted by Draco69
Making last-minute rules to curry favor for the Ultimates is kinda pathetic.

😬

First you said no forcefields, no you say no phasing.

What Cyclops can't use his blasts either...?

Yeah, I noticed that too... 🙁

Originally posted by SevenShackles
ill try to find the time to reply to the rest. but i was under the impression it had to be stated. he doesnt mention bloodlust in the set up and im working off the basic characters, in character. working at their best.

Forum rules specify bloodlust UNLESS specified NOT by the threadstarter in the opening post.

Originally posted by SevenShackles
which to me, sending in hawkeye and nick fury with prep mean 'kill them all' , as x-men with prep mean 'KO' mind you id find this to be a different fight with a different X-men roster.

They only have five minutes....

😬

They won't even have time to converse with Nick Fury or make a workable strategy.

Whereas the X-Men have literally an hour.

Originally posted by SevenShackles
ultimates look like all-stars, and X-men fall a little short beside the one character you keep mentioning who with what you say seems able to solo the ultimates for the most partO-o

The Ultimates have only four threats that will give the X-Men problems:

Thor
Iron-Man
Scarlet Witch
Quicksilver.

The X-Men? Everyone's a threat. They have no weak links. Except maybe Beast but his tech contributions with prep-time make up for that fact.

Jean can quite literally solo most if not all the Ultimates.

Draco69 do yourself a favor and try not to mention X-men not in this thread [such as storm & Rogue] it takes away from what your saying.

need to prove THIS team of x-men can win with or without your jean offensive =/ or your case is just sorta dead.

Originally posted by Draco69
Forum rules specify bloodlust UNLESS specified NOT by the threadstarter in the opening post.

They only have five minutes....

😬

They won't even have time to converse with Nick Fury or make a workable strategy.

Whereas the X-Men have literally an hour.

Nick Fury is like one liner prep master "Kill them all, hit um hard, fast" doesnt take long to get hawkeye in a hiding spot in a building somewhere out of sight with a sniper rifle, as it doesnt take him that long to get off three shots. 1- beast, 2-cyclops 3- x-men of his choice

fury is trained for such thing, hell if he can handle snakes on a plane i think he can handle the x-men 😮‍💨

alot will be happening from the ultimates in the opening of the fight, lightning capable of destroying ships pounding down on them should be enough to distractr jean if not kill/hurt/panic the rest of the x-men, Ironman's speed and weapons he can hit and run, not to meniton quicksilver and hawkeye with his rifle. Cap going straight for wolverine and scarlet witch increasing the chances of the ultimates victory, and in the mayhem who remembers wasp? colossus maybe when she turns his eyes from the otherside, or just shut him down. if not someone else.

prep rocks.

The Ultimates have only four threats that will give the X-Men problems:

Thor
Iron-Man
Scarlet Witch
Quicksilver.

The X-Men? Everyone's a threat. They have no weak links. Except maybe Beast but his tech contributions with prep-time make up for that fact.

Hawkeye is a threat, honestly jean is supposed to handle offensive/defensive controling and shutting minds down while deflecting bullets and arrows all in the same time ? 😕
plus i was under the impression this was like weapon X jean or something given the roster of x-men.

wasp has the element of surprise and in the ultimates has a think with shooting peoples brains which im sure can be turned into something fatal.

nick fury.. given the restrictions on the x-men's prep i doubt he could do it but with 1 min prep he could set up a backup team ready to drop the hulk ontop of the x-men if not the reserves.

Jean can quite literally solo most if not all the Ultimates.

Originally posted by Draco69
There's no such thing as the Phoenix Force in Ultimate Universe.

It was concluded that the "Phoenix Force" is simply Jean's powers. She imagines green goblins to cope with the enormous immensity of her powers.

You gave them an hour prep. What else can't they do with it?

Making last-minute rules to curry favor for the Ultimates is kinda pathetic.

😬

First you said no forcefields, no you say no phasing.

What Cyclops can't use his blasts either...?

No...its not. I said no equipment to stop Iron Man having an advantage or Fury bring anything to big, he gets a rifle or something.

No Shields are up. They go over how they win, did you actually read anything on here?

Advantages?

I took away Fury's extra equipment. Iron Man equipment, (his amour comes obviously) and whatever else they carry.

I made Jean classic levels and them 1 hour while Ultimates have 5 minutes, this all happens so they can think of a plan and not start with Shields up or anything.

Now tell me. Who has the advantage? It was implied I thought that np Shields.....

Where did I say they can take a big study of the enemy's, they have standard knowledge and have to think of how to beat them within the prep time. What I said they get. Not all the stuff your saying.

They do NOT get Cerebeo. They get each other as prep, they decide what they will do.

What I SAID they get.

Pathetic? Its pathetic giving them stuff I said they don't get. If you read they use the prep how I say. No other way.

Iceman not impressive in Ultimates? 😕
http://img148.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ultimatewar04180pp.jpg
http://img223.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ultimatewar04198ec.jpg
http://img223.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ultimatewar04204yd.jpg

Then theres the in the future hero worship he gets by Bishop and all his other future people encounters.

Anyways TP for the win

She wont get the chance. Everyone says this but no one is giving me a good reason why she will be given to chance to do so.

past jean wheres the threat of the x-men?

Originally posted by Hyperion 07
Then this is her without the mad power up Regular most seen Jean. Classic. 😐

No...its not. I said no equipment to stop Iron Man having an advantage or Fury bring anything to big, he gets a rifle or something.

No Shields are up. They go over how they win, did you actually read anything on here?

Advantages?

I took away Fury's extra equipment. Iron Man equipment, (his amour comes obviously) and whatever else they carry.

I made Jean classic levels and them 1 hour while Ultimates have 5 minutes, this all happens so they can think of a plan and not start with Shields up or anything.

Now tell me. Who has the advantage? It was implied I thought that np Shields.....

Where did I say they can take a big study of the enemy's, they have standard knowledge and have to think of how to beat them within the prep time. What I said they get. Not all the stuff your saying.

They do NOT get Cerebeo. They get each other as prep, they decide what they will do.

What I SAID they get.

Pathetic? Its pathetic giving them stuff I said they don't get. If you read they use the prep how I say. No other way.

No. You're currying favor to the Ultimates. You're delibrately detracting viable strategies that give the X-Men the edge.

And there IS no "Classic Jean".

Ult. Jean has always been Phoenix. There is no Force. There is no cosmic firebird.

The Phoenix Force is really just her powers.

X-3 Jean was based off Ult. Jean. It's part of her mutation.

Was she using that much power back in the early days? No she wasn't.

If they gets shields up that is starting before the match, I said what is happening in the prep, I didn't say they were allowed to start before it happened. So no I am not being unfair. If we allowed that we could allow something similar from IM.

What strategies have I taken away that are so unfair? Oh yeah, getting everyone ready and prepared, they get to think and plan what they will do. Soon as it starts shields fine but not before speedblitz.

Sounds like your doing what your accusing me of but with X-Men.

Every advantage is to them but I am unfair??

Originally posted by SevenShackles
Nick Fury is like one liner prep master "Kill them all, hit um hard, fast" doesnt take long to get hawkeye in a hiding spot in a building somewhere out of sight with a sniper rifle, as it doesnt take him that long to get off three shots. 1- beast, 2-cyclops 3- x-men of his choice

Which Jean will know where he is via telepathy.

Originally posted by SevenShackles
alot will be happening from the ultimates in the opening of the fight, lightning capable of destroying ships pounding down on them should be enough to distractr jean if not kill/hurt/panic the rest of the x-men, Ironman's speed and weapons he can hit and run, not to meniton quicksilver and hawkeye with his rifle. Cap going straight for wolverine and scarlet witch increasing the chances of the ultimates victory, and in the mayhem who remembers wasp? colossus maybe when she turns his eyes from the otherside, or just shut him down. if not someone else.

My strategy is much simpler and much more effective:

Kitty holds Jean's hand prior to the battle.

Jean erects a forcefield that has withstood a 100 nukes.

Jean mentally shuts down the Ultimates and uses a select few for mind-control.

The battle is over.

😬

Originally posted by SevenShackles
prep rocks.

Yes, it does.

How you think 5 minutes of prep is more advantageous than an hour I'll never know...

Originally posted by SevenShackles
Hawkeye is a threat, honestly jean is supposed to handle offensive/defensive controling and shutting minds down while deflecting bullets and arrows all in the same time ? 😕
plus i was under the impression this was like weapon X jean or something given the roster of x-men.

Jean's a one-man army. She once battled the entire Brotherhood to a standstill. Magento included.

All Jean has to do is first erect a forcefield than second mindf*ck the Ultimates.

That's two thoughts. All it takes.

Originally posted by SevenShackles
wasp has the element of surprise and in the ultimates has a think with shooting peoples brains which im sure can be turned into something fatal.

Wasp is rather useless. Any of the X-Men can take her out. Besides she's gonna mindscrewed with the rest of them.

Originally posted by SevenShackles
nick fury.. given the restrictions on the x-men's prep i doubt he could do it but with 1 min prep he could set up a backup team ready to drop the hulk ontop of the x-men if not the reserves.

That's both ridiculous and wishful thinking.

One minute? Can you comprehend 60 seconds?

Nick Fury wouldn't be able to perform such a complicated strategy under one minute.....

Originally posted by Hyperion 07
She wont get the chance. Everyone says this but no one is giving me a good reason why she will be given to chance to do so.

We've already given the reason.

You acted like a fanboy and deflected the reason stating it "wasn't allowed".

An hour of prep and they can't even hold hands or build a forcefield?

😬

looks like a team from the weapon X arc, in which jeans powers weren't to the level as they are in the current comics. that is the jean he is using more or less. thats that. pretty much he just sculpted this to actually be a real fight. things dont need to be stacked in anothers favor for the x-men to lose. just deal with it. debate it along the guidlines laid out.

and on the subject of force field, its ruled out being up beforehand, but can she raise one during the conflict?

Originally posted by Draco69
We've already given the reason.

You acted like a fanboy and deflected the reason stating it "wasn't allowed".

An hour of prep and they can't even hold hands or build a forcefield?

😬

They plan what they will do. They plan it, not do it.

Your the fanboy. I give you the fair stipulations and you can't handle it. 😬

Point to me all my wrong doings then... 🙄

Originally posted by Hyperion 07
Was she using that much power back in the early days? No she wasn't.

She's been using this amount of power for oh, 80 issues.

Repeat, there is no "Classic Jean".

Jean has always been Phoenix. She simply got more skilled with her powers.

Originally posted by Hyperion 07
If they gets shields up that is starting before the match, I said what is happening in the prep, I didn't say they were allowed to start before it happened. So no I am not being unfair. If we allowed that we could allow something similar from IM.

That's what prep is. Prep specifically means they can strategize, plan their assaults and bolster their defenses prior to the battle.

A simple strategy, which you won't approve because it isn't "fair", everyone holds hands with Kitty Pryde.

The opening salvo goes right through them and Jean has more than enough time to erect a forcefield and begin her mental assault.

Originally posted by Hyperion 07
What strategies have I taken away that are so unfair? Oh yeah,

Kitty apparently can't hold hands with Jean....?

Originally posted by SevenShackles
looks like a team from the weapon X arc, in which jeans powers weren't to the level as they are in the current comics. that is the jean he is using more or less. thats that. pretty much he just sculpted this to actually be a real fight. things dont need to be stacked in anothers favor for the x-men to lose. just deal with it. debate it along the guidlines laid out.

and on the subject of force field, its ruled out being up beforehand, but can she raise one during the conflict?

Originally posted by SevenShackles
looks like a team from the weapon X arc, in which jeans powers weren't to the level as they are in the current comics. that is the jean he is using more or less. thats that. pretty much he just sculpted this to actually be a real fight.

Jesus Christ, that storyline was six years ago. None of you have even bothered to keep up with the book.

All the X-Men have grown more powerful and more experienced with age.

Originally posted by SevenShackles
and on the subject of force field, its ruled out being up beforehand, but can she raise one during the conflict?

Sure. While Kitty phases her.

I'm not arguing with the stipulations so much the stupidity of them.

I bring up forcefields.

OP says no forcefields.

I bring up phasing.

OP says no phasing.

😬

Originally posted by Draco69
She's been using this amount of power for oh, 80 issues.

Repeat, there is no "Classic Jean".

Jean has always been Phoenix. She simply got more skilled with her powers.

That's what prep is. Prep specifically means they can strategize, plan their assaults and bolster their defenses prior to the battle.

A simple strategy, which you won't approve because it isn't "fair", everyone holds hands with Kitty Pryde.

The opening salvo goes right through them and Jean has more than enough time to erect a forcefield and begin her mental assault.

Kitty apparently can't hold hands with Jean....?

I gave you My prep. Not all prep is the same you know.

Not when it means the entire opposite teams immobilized. I gave you the stipulations of the 55 minutes more prep they got, that means no preparing they're defenses. It happens during the match. When will you listen?

Originally posted by Hyperion 07
Hell yes, as soon as it beginnings. But QS is to fast. Then its up to the rest.

*sigh*

Kitty holds hands with Jean and the rest of the X-Men.

Quicksilver passes through a gaggle of ghosts.

Jean erects a forcefield for added protection.

Jean begins mentally assaulting the other team.

It's really that simple.