Ganon and Sephiroth v.s. Darth Nihilus and Darth Sion

*sigh*

Why some people think Sephiroth is just a guy with a sword?

Sephiroth vs Angeal and Genesis:

YouTube video

Sephiroth and Zack's fight in Crisis Core(unfortunately, it's not the original music):

YouTube video

You can see that Sephiroth is moving so fast sometimes, that it gives the impression he is teleporting. And by doing that, he is speedblitzing Zack. The same Zack that can dodge machine gun fire, easily.

The second part of the fight(without the original music again):

-oMkf_pz2AE&mode=related&search=

You can see that Sephiroth can throw a blue "line"(cut) against you. This is the same blue "line" that cut the Junon Cannon, in his fight against Genesis. And Sephiroth can do that many and many times, easily.

Important Detail: These three videos show Pre-Nibel Sephiroth fighting. But in his Post-Nibel form he is more powerful than that.

This is the Northern Crater's barrier(created by Sephiroth) being destroyed:

YouTube video

What destroyed it, was a shot of the Junon Cannon. But it wasn't a normal shot. They needed the power of all the reactors of Midgar to do that super shot.

This is a quote from Veld(leader of the Turks) when the old Avalanche's group seized the Junon Canon, in Before Crisis:

"Go there at once. If they fire the cannon, it’ll destroy Headquarters and Midgar city in one shot."

"It will destroy Midgar city in one shot" he said. This is the power of a normal shot of the cannon. But they needed much more than that, much more than a city-busting attack, to destroy the Northern Crater's barrier, that Sephiroth created with his own power.

An important moment in the original game:

Bugenhagen
"The planet's in a crisis..."

(He shakes his head.)

Bugenhagen
"A crisis beyond human power or endless time."
"It says, when the time comes, we must search for 'Holy'."

Cloud
"Holy?"

Bugenhagen
"Holy... the ultimate White Magic. Magic that might stand against Meteor. Perhaps our last hope to save the planet from Meteor."
"If a soul seeking Holy reaches the planet, it will appear."

(He bounces happily)

Bugenhagen
"Ho Ho Hoooo."
"Meteor, Weapon, everything will disappear."

(He leans conspiratorially toward them.)

Bugenhagen
"Perhaps, even ourselves."

Cloud
"Even us!?"

Bugenhagen
"It is up to the planet to decide."

Bugenhagen
"What is best for the planet. What is bad for the planet."
"All that is bad will disappear. That is all."

(He bounces)

Bugenhagen
"Ho Ho Hooo."
"I wonder which we humans are?"

This part tells us how powerful Holy really is.

And now:

Cloud
"Thank you... Aerith."
"Aerith's voice has already reached the Planet. Just look at the glow of the White Materia."
"But...... how about Holy? How come Holy isn't moving?"

(He shakes his head.)

Cloud
"Why?"

Bugenhagen
"Something's getting in its way."

Cloud
"......Him......"
"He's the only one that could do it."
"...Sephiroth. Where are you?"

And now, we know that Sephiroth is holding back Holy. His will is more powerful than a spell that can make the Weapons, all humanity, and etc, disappear. Very impressive IMO.

And it's important to remember he was doing that during ALL his battle against Avalanche in the end of the game. Fighting against 8 people with Limit Breaks and equipped with the most powerful Materias in the world, AND holding back Holy… All in the same time.

When Sephiroth appears in AC, he summon a dark substance that cover the sky. In the AC Director's Comentary of the japanese DVD, Kitase explain that this substance is composed of the souls of all people who died by Geostigma. It's basically a dark version of the Lifestream, under Sephiroth's controll.

This is the end of FFVII:

YouTube video

The Lifestream have the power to destroy Meteor, and is the magic and life source of FFVII. And Sephiroth have control over it. He can use it to literally destroy the surface of the world, and move the planet across the universe, as his vessel.

One of Sephiroth’s many powers, is telekinesis:

(Cloud falls in slow-motion through blackness. The only light is from a glowing white sphere in the center of the screen. It pulsates with energy as though it were a beating heart. Cloud continues to fall toward it.)

Li......ght......
A light........
Is this.......
Is this light...... Holy?

(He falls into the light. The scene abruptly changes. The core of the Planet. In the undulating green glow is a round, red stone structure. It forms tendrils, almost but not quite concealing what is inside- a pulsating white sphere. The structure is surrounded by many smaller stone platforms. The entire party rests unconscious on these. After a moment, Barret stands.)

Barret
"Oww... damn, man!"

(Cloud gets to his feet.)

Cloud
"Barret!?"

(The rest of the party comes to.)

Barret
"What...? So everyone's together again...?"

(Suddenly, a ring of white fire shoots from the center of the sphere. The party is levitated, struggling, into the air.)

"Uuuugh...!!"

(Sephiroth's face flashes in front of the camera for a split second. His theme begins to play as he vanishes, only to reappear, materializing from the center of the sphere.)

Cloud
"...Sephiroth!!"

(Another ring of white fire emanates from the sphere, driving the party further from Sephiroth.)

Barret
"Ugh...! Is this...... the true power of Sephiroth?"

Cid
"My... my body... I can't control my body...... Uuugh!?"

(Sephiroth draws the party nearer with his mental powers, only to torment them with another fire ring.)

Red XIII
"My front legs...... my hind legs...... my tail's about to tear
off!!"

Cait Sith
"This is definitely not good...... He's way outta our league..."

Yuffie
"I, I don't know if I can... go on..."

(The screen flashes and the party spins in the air like toys.)

Tifa
"Cloud... Cloud..."

Cloud
"Ugh... ugh..."

And in Advent Children, Sephiroth destroyed the top of the Shinra building with his TK.

Excluding these powers, there are other abilities he have:
- Many different types of magic spells(probably all of them) that he can cast, without using Materia.
- Create illusions
- Intangibility
- Flight
- A body made 100% of J-cells(don't need to breathe, sleep, or eat, because of that)
- Create monsters and warriors by using the Lifestream(source of life in FFVII) to help him(created Yazoo, Loz, Kadaj, and the Shadow Creepers, for example), and create objects.
- Other things I forgot at the moment

Sephiroth never revealed his true potential(real power), but from what we know:

Tetsuya Nomura: "Kitase said that Sephiroth's existence and will is extremely powerful. There is nothing stronger, nothing above him."

Tetsuya Nomura: "Producer Kitase decided that they couldn’t make any other character stronger than Sephiroth in the world of FFVII."

And that put him in the same level of Goddess Minerva, the living will of the planet, responsible for the creation of the Weapons, Zirconiade, Holy, Omega, Chaos, etc.

Sephiroth is a god(by FF standards) with power over the planet, and can use it to travel the universe and destroy other planets if he wants.

He is a destroyer of worlds.

^ Doesnt change the fact he cant out run the force nor contend with an omnipotent being

Originally posted by Manslayer
Considering the fact that there is nothing which states sephs sword is unbreakable, the LS will slice through it
Really? Apparantly i will tear this assertion of yours to pieces.

Firstly though sephiroth moves extremely fast we still are able to follow his movements in AC.

Secondly powerful force users have an ability which allows them to move faster than the eye can see

How can i back this up? The DE audio book states that the lightsaber duel between luke and the emperor in Dark empire is so intence and so great that they were moving so fast that even leia couldnt see either of them, it appeared as if both became invisible and the fight is so great that they sent enough evergy to kill nearby storm troopers.

Secondly mace has also been described to move faster than light such that he has been described as invisible in his duel with kar vastor during the clone wars.

Darth vader whom also used this ability to evade a blaster bolt [b] after it was fired.

And force speed is a basic core force ability as the source books states

And nihilus hasnt displayed any good dueling skills either so hence forth sephiroth wins but oops i forgot, nihilus uses a lightsaber which cuts through everything save for cortosis , metal enhanced by sith alchemy and orbalisks.

In terms for dueling skills, sephiroth beats nihilus by a far margin but when nihilus uses the force? Sephiroth has absolutely no chances seeing that force grip and force crush have shown to kill non force users instantly [/B]

Oh dear, i think you got the wrong impression

Let me remind you how tough the crowd your dealing with really is

Firstly AC was the classic toying around Sephiroth, we do not know the full extend of his powers.

He however was offically announced as the strongest FF7 character. Wiess and Chaos's you can't see them either.

So if you want the specifics on Sephiroth....Sephiroth can also only be hurt by jenova infected matter. As stated also offically, which is why only Cloud can kill him, and why no other attacks even faze him. So lightsabers.....force powers.....can go to hell

And just to finish off Sephiroth sword is not metal, it's made of lifesteam essence, thus you cannot possibly know what would happen if a lightsaber touch it.

Oh yeah, and he can make his sword again, like he did in AC

The Force does not make people all-powerful. And Force users can be killed by non-Force users, the movies make this pretty clear.

Just to clear that up.

Alot of irelevant points, but dont worry, ill destroy them one by one

You can see that Sephiroth is moving so fast sometimes, that it gives the impression he is teleporting. And by doing that, he is speedblitzing Zack. The same Zack that can dodge machine gun fire, easily.

Uh ok, force users themselves can move that fast, prehaps even faster than sephiroth seeing that they have been described to move so fast it rivals the speed of light, or being described as invisible along with that nihilus has his percognitive abilities which will alert him all of sephiroths next moves

You can see that Sephiroth can throw a blue "line"(cut) against you. This is the same blue "line" that cut the Junon Cannon, in his fight against Genesis. And Sephiroth can do that many and many times, easily.

A lightsaber cuts through anything better than what sephiroths masamune can do

What destroyed it, was a shot of the Junon Cannon. But it wasn't a normal shot. They needed the power of all the reactors of Midgar to do that super shot.

This is a quote from Veld(leader of the Turks) when the old Avalanche's group seized the Junon Canon, in Before Crisis:

"Go there at once. If they fire the cannon, it’ll destroy Headquarters and Midgar city in one shot."

"It will destroy Midgar city in one shot" he said. This is the power of a normal shot of the cannon. But they needed much more than that, much more than a city-busting attack, to destroy the Northern Crater's barrier, that Sephiroth created with his own power.

Irrelevant

An important moment in the original game:

Bugenhagen
"The planet's in a crisis..."

(He shakes his head.)

Bugenhagen
"A crisis beyond human power or endless time."
"It says, when the time comes, we must search for 'Holy'."

Cloud
"Holy?"

Bugenhagen
"Holy... the ultimate White Magic. Magic that might stand against Meteor. Perhaps our last hope to save the planet from Meteor."
"If a soul seeking Holy reaches the planet, it will appear."

(He bounces happily)

Bugenhagen
"Ho Ho Hoooo."
"Meteor, Weapon, everything will disappear."

(He leans conspiratorially toward them.)

Bugenhagen
"Perhaps, even ourselves."

Cloud
"Even us!?"

Bugenhagen
"It is up to the planet to decide."

Bugenhagen
"What is best for the planet. What is bad for the planet."
"All that is bad will disappear. That is all."

(He bounces)

Bugenhagen
"Ho Ho Hooo."
"I wonder which we humans are?"

This part tells us how powerful Holy really is.

point?

And now:

Cloud
"Thank you... Aerith."
"Aerith's voice has already reached the Planet. Just look at the glow of the White Materia."
"But...... how about Holy? How come Holy isn't moving?"

(He shakes his head.)

Cloud
"Why?"

Bugenhagen
"Something's getting in its way."

Cloud
"......Him......"
"He's the only one that could do it."
"...Sephiroth. Where are you?"

And now, we know that Sephiroth is holding back Holy. His will is more powerful than a spell that can make the Weapons, all humanity, and etc, disappear. Very impressive IMO.

Is this relevant to a fight? Because will power cant kill an opponent in a duel

And it's important to remember he was doing that during ALL his battle against Avalanche in the end of the game. Fighting against 8 people with Limit Breaks and equipped with the most powerful Materias in the world, AND holding back Holy… All in the same time.

Any evidence to back up all 8 of them had the best materia? Thats all purely gameplay mechanic which are not canon thus cannot be taken into consideration

When Sephiroth appears in AC, he summon a dark substance that cover the sky. In the AC Director's Comentary of the japanese DVD, Kitase explain that this substance is composed of the souls of all people who died by Geostigma. It's basically a dark version of the Lifestream, under Sephiroth's controll. And?

The Lifestream have the power to destroy Meteor, and is the magic and life source of FFVII. And Sephiroth have control over it. He can use it to literally destroy the surface of the world, and move the planet across the universe, as his vessel.

Calling upon the life stream to choke that planet is impressive as i played both the game and watched the movie, but how is it relevant to a fight?

One of Sephiroth’s many powers, is telekinesis:
He never demonstrates it in battle

(Cloud falls in slow-motion through blackness. The only light is from a glowing white sphere in the center of the screen. It pulsates with energy as though it were a beating heart. Cloud continues to fall toward it.)

Li......ght......
A light........
Is this.......
Is this light...... Holy?

(He falls into the light. The scene abruptly changes. The core of the Planet. In the undulating green glow is a round, red stone structure. It forms tendrils, almost but not quite concealing what is inside- a pulsating white sphere. The structure is surrounded by many smaller stone platforms. The entire party rests unconscious on these. After a moment, Barret stands.)

Barret
"Oww... damn, man!"

(Cloud gets to his feet.)

Cloud
"Barret!?"

(The rest of the party comes to.)

Barret
"What...? So everyone's together again...?"

(Suddenly, a ring of white fire shoots from the center of the sphere. The party is levitated, struggling, into the air.)

"Uuuugh...!!"

(Sephiroth's face flashes in front of the camera for a split second. His theme begins to play as he vanishes, only to reappear, materializing from the center of the sphere.)

Cloud
"...Sephiroth!!"

(Another ring of white fire emanates from the sphere, driving the party further from Sephiroth.)

Barret
"Ugh...! Is this...... the true power of Sephiroth?"

Cid
"My... my body... I can't control my body...... Uuugh!?"

(Sephiroth draws the party nearer with his mental powers, only to torment them with another fire ring.)

Red XIII
"My front legs...... my hind legs...... my tail's about to tear
off!!"

Cait Sith
"This is definitely not good...... He's way outta our league..."

Yuffie
"I, I don't know if I can... go on..."

(The screen flashes and the party spins in the air like toys.)

And he does that while being empowered by the earths mako energy, not something he did on his own

And in Advent Children, Sephiroth destroyed the top of the Shinra building with his TK. The building was already greatly damaged in FF7, sephiroth merely could have shifted part of the structure apart and could be due to the fact he has already weakened it after he slices part of it

Excluding these powers, there are other abilities he have:
- Many different types of magic spells(probably all of them) that he can cast, without using Materia.
- Create illusions
- Intangibility
- Flight
- A body made 100% of J-cells(don't need to breathe, sleep, or eat, because of that)
- Create monsters and warriors by using the Lifestream(source of life in FFVII) to help him(created Yazoo, Loz, Kadaj, and the Shadow

Right the force counters all of that, precognition

Tetsuya Nomura: Kitase said that Sephiroth's existence and will is extremely powerful. There is nothing stronger, nothing above him. He is referring to sephiroth in ff7, not beings from other worlds such as marvel, star wars, DC.

Tetsuya Nomura: Producer Kitase decided that they couldn’t make any other character stronger than Sephiroth in the world of FFVII.

Key word, in the world of ffvii

[b]
Sephiroth is a god(by FF standards) with power over the planet, and can use it to travel the universe and destroy other planets if he wants.[/i] Prove he "could destroy other planets if he wants"

His goal was to find other planets, not destroy them

Originally posted by Remindme

Firstly AC was the classic toying around Sephiroth, we do not know the full extend of his powers.

Originally posted by Remindme

He however was offically announced as the strongest FF7 character. Wiess and Chaos's you can't see them either.

Key word strongest FFVII character

Originally posted by Remindme

So if you want the specifics on Sephiroth....Sephiroth can also only be hurt by jenova infected matter. As stated also offically, which is why only Cloud can kill him, and why no other attacks even faze him. So lightsabers.....force powers.....can go to hell

Source?

Quote?

Because clouds AC buster sword isnt coated with jenova cells yet it was the one who killed sephiroth when cloud performed his new omnislash

Originally posted by Lana
The Force does not make people all-powerful. And Force users can be killed by non-Force users, the movies make this pretty clear.

Just to clear that up.

And lucasfils gave the EU the lfl stamp meaning it has achieved the canon status

Originally posted by Remindme

And just to finish off Sephiroth sword is not metal, it's made of lifesteam essence, thus you cannot possibly know what would happen if a lightsaber touch it.

Oh yeah, and he can make his sword again, like he did in AC

Or nihilus disarms him with his TK and then at the same time chokes him

I imagine Sephiroth in bloodlust mode, like this:

First, he turns intangible with just a thought(like he did two times in FFVII). Then he creates a barrier(in one second or two) to protect himself(like he did in the Northern Crater). And like I showed before, you need an attack more powerful than city-busting to destroy it.
He would have two defenses: His intangibility, and his barrier.

Then after that, he summons the entire Lifestream in one second or two(like he did in AC), and attack the enemy with all the power of the planet. Or he just attack the planet itself, killing everyone in it(including his adversary, if he/she/it cannot leave the planet). After that, he use the planet as a vessel to travel the universe(and use it as a weapon to destroy other planets, "like Jenova did a long time ago"😉.

Can a powerful Jedi survive that? I don't have any idea. But what I know, is that Sephiroth is powerful as hell.

Originally posted by SHM
I imagine Sephiroth in bloodlust mode, like this:

Your speculating without proof, The burden of proof is on you
[/B][/QUOTE]

Originally posted by SHM

First, he turns intangible with just a thought(like he did two times in FFVII).

Originally posted by SHM

Then he creates a barrier(in one second or two) to protect himself(like he did in the Northern Crater). And like I showed before, you need an attack more powerful than city-busting to destroy it.
He would have two defenses: His intangibility, and his barrier.

Originally posted by SHM

Then after that, he summons the entire Lifestream in one second or two(like he did in AC), and attack the enemy with all the power of the planet.

Just because he does A in situation B, Ergo, it means he can do it anywhere.

Great analogy friend, he summoned the stream for the sole purpose to choke the planet, not for the purpose in a 1v1 battle

Originally posted by SHM

Or he just attack the planet itself, killing everyone in it(including his adversary, if he/she/it cannot leave the planet). After that, he use the planet as a vessel to travel the universe(and use it as a weapon to destroy other planets, "like Jenova did a long time ago"😉.

Originally posted by SHM

Can a powerful Jedi survive that? I don't have any idea. But what I know, is that Sephiroth is powerful as hell.

Or we have the fact that vader can instantly kill his victims without even being there using the force.

Or palpatine who can create a vortex which has the potential to devour an entire planet and destroy a rebel armada consisting of thousands of war ships whom a few of them can easily destroy the ffvii world seeing that they have no planatery intergalactic defences

For me this is hard to decide.

At first I wanted to give my vote to the Darths. Not so sure now though.

Shin gear to be honest id give it to sephiroth, i think the fact that he is a better dueler with an unbreakable sword makes it clear while on the other hand nihilus does jack with the saber.

Yes while nihilus may use force speed to out speed sephiroth, he doesnt have the skills to actually break through sephiroths defences and we know nothing about the way nihilus fights and we have enough evidence to put sephiroth above nihilus by a very far margin in terms of dueling skills

^ this is just for sword play.

Nihilus resorting to the force is a completely different story

, im sure he would beat sephiroth after a hard fight seeing what he has done with the force but some of these forum members have made absolutely ridiculous claims which arent backed up by any source, not even wikipedia and all they do is speculate "sephiroth is immune to the force"

So who gets my vote? Final decision

Dueling Sephiroth wins- in a pure dueling match where nihilus doesnt use his force abilities

Unrestricted fight, then nihilus wins as he can use the force to over power sephiroth

Indeed, Sephiroth is not immune to the force. 🤨

Then again, I don't know what is. 😬

Originally posted by shin_gear
Indeed, Sephiroth is not immune to the force. 🤨

Then again, I don't know what is. 😬

This is off topic but the yuuzhan vong are not directly effected by the force in the new jedi order as in precognitive abilities or draining abilites dont work, except TK based attacks

Anyways my decision is final, sephiroth beats nihilus is swordplay

I have not that much knowledge about the SW universe. Never really got into it.

Thats no problem we all have our own tastes and likes, Good night, its 3 am now, didnt realise that till now

First, everything I said he can do, was presented in the game, movie, books, or by the creators themselves. Intangibility, barrier, controlling Lifestream, etc. It's all there, he can do all of that. Nothing is speculation.

Second: If we are using Seph in his most powerful form, the Lifestream IS part of himself. He absorbed it during 5 years before the game started, and absorbed it during the game too. Then he corrupted it with his/Jenova's dark "essence", forming the Negative Lifestream, that he can controll without any difficulty.

The Lifestream is, like Jenova cells, just an extension of himself, of his will, of his power.

I'm not saying he can win of any Jedi or Sith(because I have poor knowledge of SW). I'm just showing how powerful Sephiroth can be, if he is not toying around. Because he can do EVERYTHING I said. I already proved that in my first post of this thread.

PS: Isn't the Lifestream like the Force? The source of power and life in the universe?

I never denied sephiroth is powerful.

Anyways this debate is over, just read the few posts i made before you made this recent post,

I think we can agree on that

However i didnt like the part where you speculate that he would do a feat for combat when he never does the feat for combat purposes nor is it relevant to combat prowess

I believe all that was just stated of Sephiroth. I hear it stated in several places, plus he does have control over the negative lifestream as he summoned it during the battle against Cloud in Advent Children. That doesn't matter much in terms of a battle, in my opinon however.

And yes, Seifer Sephiroth is Sephiroth merged with Jenova and the lifestream. 😮‍💨

What I'm doing here, is presenting Sephiroth' feats, to help people judge who would win this fight.

Because many people look at Sephiroth as "the guy with a big sword", instead of looking at him as what he really is: A guy that practically merged together with an alien parasite destroyer of worlds, and that have control over all the power and life source of the planet, and with power enough to travell the universe and use it to destroy other planets(exactly like Jenova did in the past).

Sephiroth =/= The guy with a big sword.

Sephiroth = A destroyer of worlds.

True, but while this is true it's not like it would factor much in a fight considering how he supposedly would pull it off. It's something he can do, no doubt, and this ability makes others pale without a question indeed.

However in terms of a fight, we should discuss his magical abilities in his Seraphic form and his displayed skills against Zack and Genesis. ✅

Originally posted by shin_gear
True, but while this is true it's not like it would factor much in a fight considering how he supposedly would pull it off. It's something he can do, no doubt, and this ability makes others pale without a question indeed.

However in terms of a fight, we should discuss his magical abilities in his Seraphic form and his displayed skills against Zack and Genesis. ✅

But in a bloodlust fight, a character can use all of his/her powers if necessary to win the battle, right?

Then my example still stands. If Seph think this is necessary to win, he will destroy the planet. Or use magic, or intangibility, or telekinesis, or etc.