Illidan Stormrage Vs. Ganon

Originally posted by Darth Extecute
You got a friend with three level 70's? oh

I got friends with over 10-20 70's, but I fail to see how that helps any in this discussion..

Originally posted by Darth Extecute
The fight against Archimonde:

The players travel trough time to encounter the great Archimonde, in order to save the flow of time.. He was intended to go down in that fight and if he didn't it'd be the end of Azeroth.. So, the group of adventurers fight Archimonde.. After a while in the fight, the raid get buffed with a buff that represent the vast nature damage that slay Archimonde in Wc3.. This was in order to keep the plot solid, that Archimonde in fact was near unstoppable and that it was vast nature magic that slayed him..

Do you seriously think that 25 average characters can destroy the magician that can slay two full-grown dragons in a mere second by simply clenching his fist.. The man who can crumble cities effortless.. Who can turn buildings and people inside out by pointing a finger...
You seriously think 25 average soldiers, that have somewhat problems with mere demons before Archimonde would be able to slay him?

I tell you this....... NO! Archimonde is, like most other characters- weakend in WoW gameplay.. Archimonde is weakened.. Illidan is Weakened.. Nefarian is weakened.. Heck, even Thrall is weakened.. None of the characters in WoW is at their prime..

You act like WoW is the way of discussion when it comes to these people.. Do you play Wc3? In Wc3, Archimonde in the campaign could, along with a number undeads swipe trough a strong orcish, elven and human base effortless in less than an hour.. The only thing that held him back from destroying them entirely, was the plot.. He was waiting.. If he wanted to, which he would lore-wise, he'd crumble those bases before they got any chance to fight back..

((In the defense of these three bases was: Thrall, Jaina, Tyrande, Malfurion))

And YOU think that 25 members would be capable of defeating those four, along with three bases and armies?

> L O L <

Anyway, that's really a pathetic attempt to validateyour claims of it being PIS. Armys are usually canon fodder, they aren't the best of the best. look how frequently in games you play a character that can wade through armies. Hell look at comic books too while you're at it. Wolverine took on a ridiculous number of ninja. Jubilee made fools of the Hand.

And nothing you said justifies it being pis because after all:

"Both Archimonde and Illidan was killed by plot in WoW.. "

It still happened. Blizzard didn't have to make the event happen the way they did. Hell, if they had more recent events contradict what happened in previous games that's what's known as a retcon.

Don't like it? Tough beans. You're liking or not liking something doesn't effect the events of what happens.

Originally posted by Darth Extecute
And that was only Archimonde.. Wanna know why I consider Illidan PIS?

I alos find it deliciously ironic that you speak out against wow so much yet posted WOW pictures and videos in his respect thread. So appearently when WOW is inconvient to you because it doesn't support your fantasies over reality you like to try and dismiss it. It don't work like that buddy boy, you can't cherry pick in that fashion.

Face facts, It happened. You not liking it doesn't change that it did happen. Blizzard decided to have the character die in the fashions that they did. They didn't HAVE to put EITHER of them in WOW. No owner ever HAS TO write their character in a given fashion. They chose to have Archimonde and Illidan die in the manners they did. Archimonde would be out of Ganon's means, but not Illidan.

I have no love for either villian and what they did to the elves of their respective worlds. I'm also a bit miffed at the aliance for their treatment of the bloodelves... But what can you do?

Originally posted by Creshosk
On seperate servers? Or did you just confirm you're a liar? 313

Cant confirm.. If they are liars, then I guess so am I.. And seperate servers, of course.. If you didn't know, it's a 10 maximum per realm..

Originally posted by Creshosk
What was it you told me in the three brothers thread? That I was underestimating the player characters or something to that effect?

Anyway, that's really a pathetic attempt to validateyour claims of it being PIS. Armys are usually canon fodder, they aren't the best of the best. look how frequently in games you play a character that can wade through armies. Hell look at comic books too while you're at it. Wolverine took on a ridiculous number of ninja. Jubilee made fools of the Hand.

And nothing you said justifies it being pis because after all:

"Both Archimonde and Illidan was killed by plot in WoW.. "

It still happened. Blizzard didn't have to make the event happen the way they did. Hell, if they had more recent events contradict what happened in previous games that's what's known as a retcon.

Don't like it? Tough beans. You're liking or not liking something doesn't effect the events of what happens.

It still happened.. I guess you missed the point where I said that the WoW characters are weakened.. I can tell it again, and a bit more specific..

Archimonde, Illidan and more are GREATLY weakened in WoW AND Warcraft 3.. Sure, the 25 heroes killed Archimonde in CoT.. but Archimonde didn't use even a portion of his powers.. He didn't even pay them much attention trough the fight..

If you fail in the fight and he get too close to the well.. I know I shouldn't have to tell you this, since you already know it, since you got your level 70 mate and seem to know all about Archimonde and the others anyway.. but I'm saying it to those that doesn't know..

If he get too close to the well, he instantly destroys the 25 heroes.. he raises his hand and uses an ability that players call "hand of death" *poof* and all 25 members are dead in one single spell.. that's an areal effect of his instant kill ability known as "finger of death"

Originally posted by Creshosk
What was it you told me in the three brothers thread? That I was underestimating the player characters or something to that effect?

Anyway, that's really a pathetic attempt to validateyour claims of it being PIS. Armys are usually canon fodder, they aren't the best of the best. look how frequently in games you play a character that can wade through armies. Hell look at comic books too while you're at it. Wolverine took on a ridiculous number of ninja. Jubilee made fools of the Hand.

And nothing you said justifies it being pis because after all:

"Both Archimonde and Illidan was killed by plot in WoW.. "

It still happened. Blizzard didn't have to make the event happen the way they did. Hell, if they had more recent events contradict what happened in previous games that's what's known as a retcon.

Don't like it? Tough beans. You're liking or not liking something doesn't effect the events of what happens.

It did happen.. *then points at previous sentance*

Archimonde, Illidan and more are GREATLY weakened in WoW AND Warcraft 3

Originally posted by Darth Extecute
Cant confirm.. If they are liars, then I guess so am I.. And seperate servers, of course.. If you didn't know, it's a 10 maximum per realm..

Originally posted by Darth Extecute
It still happened.. I guess you missed the point where I said that the WoW characters are weakened.. I can tell it again, and a bit more specific..

Originally posted by Darth Extecute
Archimonde, Illidan and more are GREATLY weakened in WoW AND Warcraft 3.. Sure, the 25 heroes killed Archimonde in CoT.. but Archimonde didn't use even a portion of his powers.. He didn't even pay them much attention trough the fight..

If you fail in the fight and he get too close to the well.. I know I shouldn't have to tell you this, since you already know it, since you got your level 70 mate and seem to know all about Archimonde and the others anyway.. but I'm saying it to those that doesn't know..

If he get too close to the well, he instantly destroys the 25 heroes.. he raises his hand and uses an ability that players call "hand of death" *poof* and all 25 members are dead in one single spell.. that's an areal effect of his instant kill ability known as "finger of death"

We know the things they do because the players succeed in the various games. We even know what the hell happens if you fail against him because people have succeeded in getting to him. If players sucking was a factor, its possible that you'd never have anything beyond the young wolves in Northshire for the humans for example.

Originally posted by Darth Extecute
It did happen.. *then points at previous sentance*

Originally posted by Creshosk
Yeah, I didn't know, that's why I even bothered mentioning it instead of just buying that they had 20 level 70s. sly

You can try, but without a direct statement you really only have speculation.. which is just guess work, nothing concrete.

Well sucking at a game has never been a factor in these fights.

We know the things they do because the players succeed in the various games. We even know what the hell happens if you fail against him because people have succeeded in getting to him. If players sucking was a factor, its possible that you'd never have anything beyond the young wolves in Northshire for the humans for example.

Them being weakened is speculation. Other than CIS which is still admisible in the KMC debates, you don't have any evidence. hell you even get powered up via a buff to have the WOW players beable to do anything to Archie. That doesn't say "depowered" to me.

I'm sorry, but it isn't speculations.. look at him in the books, in Wc3 and in WoW at his abilities.. Forget the defeat of his and just think for a moment.. He can do "hand of death" anytime he wishes, but he doesn't because the players are supposed to have a chance.. if he did it when they enter, there wouldn't be much of a fight.. but he doesnt.. He can, but he doesnt, because if he did they would be lost..

Originally posted by Darth Extecute
I'm sorry, but it isn't speculations.. look at him in the books, in Wc3 and in WoW at his abilities.. Forget the defeat of his and just think for a moment.. He can do "hand of death" anytime he wishes, but he doesn't because the players are supposed to have a chance.. if he did it when they enter, there wouldn't be much of a fight.. but he doesnt.. He can, but he doesnt, because if he did they would be lost..

Jubilee could detonate matter on a sub-atomic level, so why didn't she just blow up her enemies?

Cause she chose not to.

CIS not PIS

Originally posted by Creshosk
That's character induced stupidity. Not Plot induced stupidity.

Jubilee could detonate matter on a sub-atomic level, so why didn't she just blow up her enemies?

Cause she chose not to.

CIS not PIS

Trust me.. it is plot.. not character.. or.. well, maybe a bit of both..

Originally posted by Darth Extecute
Trust me.. it is plot.. not character.. or.. well, maybe a bit of both..

Different forms of CIS, but still CIS.

Now, Spiderman beating firelord by punching him... that's an example of PIS, Bone claw Wolverine slashing thanos, also PIS.

Alright.. I didn't know there was something called "CIS", so I can agree with the fact that it is due "CIS" that they live it trough, and not "PIS", but I still believe the real reason he dies is "PIS"

Originally posted by Darth Extecute
Alright.. I didn't know there was something called "CIS", so I can agree with the fact that it is due "CIS" that they live it trough, and not "PIS", but I still believe the real reason he dies is "PIS"

I love that trinket.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Plot devices aren't PIS. unless it is something stupid... Like a carrot that increase speed...

I love that trinket.

It's a neat trinket..

I do think it's stupid.. Sure, I can accept the fact that he is destroyed when Malfurion call for the forces of nature.. but when 25 heroes recieve a buff that is supposed to represent that, I find it stupid..

what does CIS stand for? ^^'

A carrot.....what the hell?

Originally posted by Remindme
what does CIS stand for? ^^'

A carrot.....what the hell?

Just learnt it myself..

Character Included Stupidity..

Originally posted by Darth Extecute
It's a neat trinket..

I do think it's stupid.. Sure, I can accept the fact that he is destroyed when Malfurion call for the forces of nature.. but when 25 heroes recieve a buff that is supposed to represent that, I find it stupid..

Originally posted by Remindme
what does CIS stand for? ^^'

A carrot.....what the hell?

[Carrot on a Stick] is a quest reward that increases mounted movement speed by 3%...

The quest is in a dungeon full of Elite Trolls however.

I want to get the [Riding Crop] though... free up the space that's taken by a pair of gloves, a pair of boots and that carrot as I hear it doesn't stack with the other gear. v.v Which is a shame... I'd love to go flying with all the mounted speed increases... Crusader aura included...

Ganon's defeat is more PIS than Illidan's. 😐 Does Zelda really expect me to believe that in a real fight Ganon, who surpasses Link in strength, speed(damn straight), power, durability, swordskill, magic skill, and experience would lose to a kid with a suped up sword? Yeah um bullshit.

anyway Illidan ftw and why the hell are we argueing about something as stupid as wether Illidan dieing in WoW is canon or not, or Archimonde, anything beaten by just players is uncanon in warcraft, in reality the characters dont excist in the warcraft lore.

To the point, I do believe Illidan wins..

Originally posted by Burning thought
anyway Illidan ftw and why the hell are we argueing about something as stupid as wether Illidan dieing in WoW is canon or not, or Archimonde, anything beaten by just players is uncanon in warcraft, in reality the characters dont excist in the warcraft lore.

"why the hell are we argueing about something as stupid as wether Illidan dieing in WoW is canon or not"
"anything beaten by just players is uncanon in warcraft"

I don't like it therefore it didn't happen.

Deal with it bucko. It happened wether you like it or not.

Unless you have concrete proof saying that the events of wow are not canon?

Which you don't, all you have is speculation. WOW follows the events of the previous games and nothing stated by blizzard sets the game in another universe.

It's canon, the characters died and Illidan's death is well within the reach of Ganon's abilities So quit whining

"Buuutt its noooot canon!!!!!11!!!!!1!!!elevetntyone!!!!"

Get over it. It's canon, the events happened. Illidan was slain.

Originally posted by Darth Extecute
To the point, I do believe Illidan wins..

Originally posted by Creshosk
Do you even listen to yourself or do you randomly pound out words that seem to have cohesion?

"why the hell are we argueing about something as stupid as wether Illidan dieing in WoW is canon or not"
"anything beaten by just players is uncanon in warcraft"

I don't like it therefore it didn't happen.

Deal with it bucko. It happened wether you like it or not.

Unless you have concrete proof saying that the events of wow are not canon?

Which you don't, all you have is speculation. WOW follows the events of the previous games and nothing stated by blizzard sets the game in another universe.

It's canon, the characters died and Illidan's death is well within the reach of Ganon's abilities So quit whining

"Buuutt its noooot canon!!!!!11!!!!!1!!!elevetntyone!!!!"

Get over it. It's canon, the events happened. Illidan was slain.

He was weakend.. that's what keeping my mood up when we're going to fight Ner'Zhul in the next expansion..

Originally posted by Creshosk
Do you even listen to yourself or do you randomly pound out words that seem to have cohesion?

"why the hell are we argueing about something as stupid as wether Illidan dieing in WoW is canon or not"
"anything beaten by just players is uncanon in warcraft"

I don't like it therefore it didn't happen.

Deal with it bucko. It happened wether you like it or not.

Unless you have concrete proof saying that the events of wow are not canon?

Which you don't, all you have is speculation. WOW follows the events of the previous games and nothing stated by blizzard sets the game in another universe.

It's canon, the characters died and Illidan's death is well within the reach of Ganon's abilities So quit whining

"Buuutt its noooot canon!!!!!11!!!!!1!!!elevetntyone!!!!"

Get over it. It's canon, the events happened. Illidan was slain.

nothing to do with not likeing altho i agree is stupid, but none of the characters in Warcraft such as players are not canon, when Blizzard sit down and write the lore their not as ive used as an example before going to put "(insert guild here) defeat illidan)" the characters of warcraft who the players play as do not excist in the lore, do you disagree, can you find your own character in the lore of warcraft from an official page on the lore with your character taking part? no....

are you going to try and debate how canon it is that creatures thought dead respawn? hell why are we debating this, Illidan respawns tomorrow, hes not really dead!! 🙄