Goku vs. Pyron

Originally posted by Endless Mike
I'm sorry, what?

What's that thing in the lower right corner?

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/457/bardockyl0.gif

Your entire argument is retarded. If you meant he couldn't find food and such in space, then how would that help Frieza? If they were both alive after the planet exploded, Goku would still kill Frieza. But Frieza says that Goku would die if it happened:

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/3748/gokubreathe2sv7.gif

Bringing Goku back to life at the scene of Namek's destruction would cause him to "just die again":

http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/1461/gokubreathe3oj1.gif

Even Goku says that he thought he was "dead for sure" until he found the Ginyu force's spaceship that he used to escape:

http://img389.imageshack.us/img389/3932/gokubreathe4yz8.gif

And here it shows he has to hold his breath underwater:

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/9752/gokubreathe6he4.jpg

He needs air to breathe. GTF over it.

If you're talking about food and water, he would still survive long enough to kill Frieza.

He spent a long enough time for Goku and Vegeta to freak out about it.

He was charging it when he was raising his hand. And 99% of the Goku vs. Frieza fight in the anime was filler anyway.

Normally teleportation isn't counted for that kind of thing. Or else people would say Nightcrawler is faster than Quicksilver, for example.

And said tactic only worked because Cell gave him time to power up the kamehameha first.

Except he has the speedforce to justify that... there's no handwavium explanation here.

I'd like you to prove he can fire them so quickly without needing to recharge.

I can name hundreds of characters that could run rings around everyone in DBZ combined. Try actually quantifying their speed.

Blatant lie. I accept that he has 100 ton lifting power, just not in base form. I believe he has over 100 tons of striking power in base form and over 100 tons of lifting power in the various SSJ forms.

What's hilarious is that when we last debated I completely owned you and you didn't post any scans or evidence to back up your claims while I did, all you did was make up excuses for why my scans didn't count.

Mike, you didnt own jack, I just gave up because once your mind is made up theres no changing it and by the way black hair goku>>100 tons and thats on panel proof. Goku during his 1st fight with vegeta was pulling off 100 ton strength hits/punches.

He just said that Goku can do over 100 tons in base form with punches. Not in lifting.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Pyron is stronger.

He is faster.

IIRC, he has busted far more with much less effort.

He is more durable.

He is bigger(duh).

He is smarter.

He is more versatile.

How does Goku win again?

Same way he's always done with guys tougher than him.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
He just said that Goku can do over 100 tons in base form with punches. Not in lifting.

WHAAAAAATTTTT!!!!!!!!!!.....................?

Originally posted by atv2
Same way he's always done with guys tougher than him.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Give up and ask his son to fight for him?

That's not a bad idea actually. I'm sure Gohan can pull him a trick or two. So long as Goku doesn't lose his confidence and starts getting scared like he did after fighting Cell and had to deal with the Cell Jrs.(That was uncalled for anyway, especially after Cell went back into his second) Goku's gotten much much stronger since then.

Gohan and Goku could double team Pyron and would still lose...

Originally posted by Endless Mike
I'm sorry, what?

What's that thing in the lower right corner?

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/457/bardockyl0.gif

Your entire argument is retarded. If you meant he couldn't find food and such in space, then how would that help Frieza? If they were both alive after the planet exploded, Goku would still kill Frieza. But Frieza says that Goku would die if it happened:

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/3748/gokubreathe2sv7.gif

Bringing Goku back to life at the scene of Namek's destruction would cause him to "just die again":

http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/1461/gokubreathe3oj1.gif

Even Goku says that he thought he was "dead for sure" until he found the Ginyu force's spaceship that he used to escape:

http://img389.imageshack.us/img389/3932/gokubreathe4yz8.gif

And here it shows he has to hold his breath underwater:

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/9752/gokubreathe6he4.jpg

He needs air to breathe. GTF over it.

If you're talking about food and water, he would still survive long enough to kill Frieza.

He spent a long enough time for Goku and Vegeta to freak out about it.

He was charging it when he was raising his hand. Except he has the speedforce to justify that... there's no handwavium explanation here.

🙄

I have the manga, I never said you couldn't see the planet, its barely visible, he's obviously in space.

My argument clearly makes sense to anyone who's mind is open and doesn't have some obsession with debating against dbz all over the net. Freeza still believed he could beat Goku, he wasn't even near fighting at 100% yet, he was trying to stack the deck against Goku. Even in that scan Freeza says "WHERE WILL YOU GO?" You refuse to see the obvious, not once does anyone say anything other than 'survive'. I backed up mine with the manga showing of Bardock, and the fact that they redundantly go out of the way to say survive and not the more obvious and direct 'you can't breathe in space' if thats what was meant. On every level of dragonball canon Saiyans are shown breathing in space, you won't find one example in any of it that says they can't.

Goku barely even knew about Sayains, and he'd never been in space what else would he say. King Kai says himself that no one can "survive" in space except Freeza. Do you really think no other race but Freeza's can breathe in space in the dbzverse?

I don't know why you are so butthurt but once again water is not space. A fish can breathe in water but it can't breathe in space. Actually Goku isn't holding his breath in that. Bulma gave him a breathing apparatus like any human would to someone else they thought was human. Show me on panel (or not) a Saiyan not being able to breathe in space or "GTF over it".

Buu raised his hand in a mini panel, and in the next the blast was there, thats not charging. When they charge in can take pages, and its clear they are charging.

How many times have we seen characters in all the mediums do that same sort of thing without the speedforce. We see fast characters all the time pulling this and sometimes we even see characters that aren't fast going into monologues when the time should not permit it. That isn't limited to speedforce wielders, its comics, it happens, like breathing/talking in space.

Originally posted by carver9
Mike, you didnt own jack, I just gave up because once your mind is made up theres no changing it and by the way black hair goku>>100 tons and thats on panel proof. Goku during his 1st fight with vegeta was pulling off 100 ton strength hits/punches.

Prove it then.... I'd like to see some actual quantification instead of just claims.

Same way he's always done with guys tougher than him.

You mean like Cell?

Oh wait.... 😆

I have the manga, I never said you couldn't see the planet, its barely visible, he's obviously in space.

Or in the very upper atmosphere. Or holding his breath.

My argument clearly makes sense to anyone who's mind is open and doesn't have some obsession with debating against dbz all over the net.

Appeal to motive fallacy. I'll have you know that I actually debate in favor of DBZ when it's a match they have a good chance of winning. For example I'm currently conducting a PM debate where I'm arguing Goku could beat Enel from One Piece.

Freeza still believed he could beat Goku, he wasn't even near fighting at 100% yet, he was trying to stack the deck against Goku.

Which would have been pointless if Goku could breathe in space.

Even in that scan Freeza says "WHERE WILL YOU GO?"

Where would Frieza go? Works both ways. He was just mocking him.

" You refuse to see the obvious, not once does anyone say anything other than 'survive'.

Because the implications are obvious. But if you insist, survive means "stay alive", therefore he dies in space. Same thing.

I backed up mine with the manga showing of Bardock, and the fact that they redundantly go out of the way to say survive and not the more obvious and direct 'you can't breathe in space' if thats what was meant.

How is the latter more obvious and direct. It's more specific, which a normal person would classify as "less obvious and direct".

If someone with a gun says "I'm going to kill you", do you assume he's going to strangle you because he didn't say "I'm going to shoot you"?

On every level of dragonball canon Saiyans are shown breathing in space, you won't find one example in any of it that says they can't.

Except they weren't, and I posted a bunch of scans that said just that.

Goku barely even knew about Sayains, and he'd never been in space what else would he say

He would know that he needed to breathe if he had ever tried to hold his breath. Don't be an idiot.

King Kai says himself that no one can "survive" in space except Freeza. Do you really think no other race but Freeza's can breathe in space in the dbzverse?

You just contradicted yourself there. He said only Frieza could, not only Frieza's race could. So he was obviously just referring to this specific situation, not everyone everywhere, or he would have mentioned Frieza's race in general.

I don't know why you are so butthurt but once again water is not space. A fish can breathe in water but it can't breathe in space.

So you're suggesting Goku has some kind of "space gills"? Ad you accuse me of reaching. 👇

You have no idea what you're talking about whatsoever. The point is that he needs air to breathe. There is no air in space. Ergo, he cannot breathe in space.

Actually Goku isn't holding his breath in that. Bulma gave him a breathing apparatus like any human would to someone else they thought was human. Show me on panel (or not) a Saiyan not being able to breathe in space or "GTF over it".

I've already provided enough evidence for anyone to conclude it beyond a reasonable doubt. Stop being obtuse.

Buu raised his hand in a mini panel, and in the next the blast was there, thats not charging. When they charge in can take pages, and its clear they are charging.

You're forgetting the panel where Goku and Vegeta are freaking out about it before it's fired.

How many times have we seen characters in all the mediums do that same sort of thing without the speedforce. We see fast characters all the time pulling this and sometimes we even see characters that aren't fast going into monologues when the time should not permit it.

Only applicable when we actually know the time.

That isn't limited to speedforce wielders, its comics, it happens, like breathing/talking in space.

Called PIS - not applicable if it happens consistently.

You got the size part in with Pyron but how far do you think he can go with it? Goku's no pushover even at the magnitude you claim Pyron to be. Goku's instant transmission is a powerful technique.

Endless mike, I want you to show me a 100 tonner punching someone through two mountains like goku did against vegeta. I also want you to show me someone in the 100 ton range pulling off the kick that he hit frieza with tha had the entire area shaking for miles when he kicked frieza through a mountain, then namoks core into another small mountain.

Hell vegeta and the pretty boy that he fought that turned into a monster was ripping namoks core during there fight and there was no display of ki during the time that this was happening, it was pure strength.

You say that they can lift nothing but 10 tons, can you show me spiderman throwing someone like vegeta did to recooom.

Originally posted by carver9
Endless mike, I want you to show me a 100 tonner punching someone through two mountains like goku did against vegeta. I also want you to show me someone in the 100 ton range pulling off the kick that he hit frieza with tha had the entire area shaking for miles when he kicked frieza through a mountain, then namoks core into another small mountain.

Hell vegeta and the pretty boy that he fought that turned into a monster was ripping namoks core during there fight and there was no display of ki during the time that this was happening, it was pure strength.

You say that they can lift nothing but 10 tons, can you show me spiderman throwing someone like vegeta did to recooom.

Originally posted by Jugglenaut
Yeah, Goku barely lifts 40 tons in his base form, and you expect us to believe that pre SS Goku has 100 ton striking power?

Pis to the eight degree since he has feats proving this. Again show me rogue who is a 50 tonner pulling off feats that goku pulled. Goku pulled off feats above any 100 tonner with his striking power.

Originally posted by carver9
Endless mike, I want you to show me a 100 tonner punching someone through two mountains like goku did against vegeta. I also want you to show me someone in the 100 ton range pulling off the kick that he hit frieza with tha had the entire area shaking for miles when he kicked frieza through a mountain, then namoks core into another small mountain.

Hell vegeta and the pretty boy that he fought that turned into a monster was ripping namoks core during there fight and there was no display of ki during the time that this was happening, it was pure strength.

You say that they can lift nothing but 10 tons, can you show me spiderman throwing someone like vegeta did to recooom.

Originally posted by Kento
Gokou never punched Vegeta through two mountains. And Vegeta and Zarbon never shook anything in their fight. Also when did Freeza ever get kicked through Namek's core? Vegeta also didn't throw Recoome that far.

I don't remember any of these things happening at all.

Originally posted by carver9
Endless mike, I want you to show me a 100 tonner punching someone through two mountains like goku did against vegeta. I also want you to show me someone in the 100 ton range pulling off the kick that he hit frieza with tha had the entire area shaking for miles when he kicked frieza through a mountain, then namoks core into another small mountain.

Hell vegeta and the pretty boy that he fought that turned into a monster was ripping namoks core during there fight and there was no display of ki during the time that this was happening, it was pure strength.

You say that they can lift nothing but 10 tons, can you show me spiderman throwing someone like vegeta did to recooom.

These are some similar to what you are talking about

Vegeta throwing Nappa with one hand without being amped
http://s4.tinypic.com/2ustr0m.jpg
http://s4.tinypic.com/30kc1t3.jpg
http://s4.tinypic.com/cnzr.jpg

Goku hitting Freeza
http://s4.tinypic.com/2wecvns.jpg
http://s4.tinypic.com/24xjvgz.jpg
http://s4.tinypic.com/nlsxdv.jpg
http://s4.tinypic.com/o9e35g.jpg
http://s4.tinypic.com/14xceow.jpg

Originally posted by carver9
Pis to the eight degree since he has feats proving this. Again show me rogue who is a 50 tonner pulling off feats that goku pulled. Goku pulled off feats above any 100 tonner with his striking power.

ya but gokus physical strength duznt need striking power

Originally posted by TheBadguy
These are some similar to what you are talking about

Vegeta throwing Nappa with one hand without being amped
http://s4.tinypic.com/2ustr0m.jpg
http://s4.tinypic.com/30kc1t3.jpg
http://s4.tinypic.com/cnzr.jpg

Goku hitting Freeza
http://s4.tinypic.com/2wecvns.jpg
http://s4.tinypic.com/24xjvgz.jpg
http://s4.tinypic.com/nlsxdv.jpg
http://s4.tinypic.com/o9e35g.jpg
http://s4.tinypic.com/14xceow.jpg

Over a 100 tonner hit and by the way thats another speed feat, goku beat a blast up that made it out of orbit.He threw the blast and beat it out of the water. Damn hes fast.

Can you do me a favor, can you put up the scan where goku kick vegeta during the sayain saga when he was powered up with the red glow (forgot what to call it). He kicked vegeta threw two mountains. This was before the galac gun and kamehameha exchange.

k im on it