Kenpachi Zaraki vs. Kisame Hoshigaki

Originally posted by Warmonger
Sorry there was nothing remotley superior about his swordsmanship. IT is not a requiremnt to be a captain. Any kind of strength in enough quantity can qualify you. Like I said Ichigo is no master swordsman and he could beat most of the captains.His massive spiritual energy and his strength is what allowwed hi t kill the last cpain and take over. There relay is nothing special about his swordsmanship. Hell that ninja girl doesn't even use a sword and she is a captain.

This one.

Kay. So he was strong enough to drag his sword thru the ground. Kenny cut a building in half with a casual swing.

So? The ground itself would actually a be a mroe impressive, feat, as the earth itself is tightly packed always, were as buildings are mostly hollow.

Cutting the ground is not that impressive. Even lesser characters, like Kenshin, can cut the ground up and produce a wave from it. Nothing impressive.

How deep? I can also take one of the swords I have and shove it into the ground.

However, there's a difference between that, and shoving the ENTIRE sword just about into the ground, then moving at faster then walking speed.

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
How deep? I can also take one of the swords I have and shove it into the ground.

However, there's a difference between that, and shoving the ENTIRE sword just about into the ground, then moving at faster then walking speed.

The Douryusen allows Kenshin to shove about half of his sword into the ground, then move it forward and eventually out fast enough that it actually produces a wave of rock and gravel to go flying at his opponent as if it were a shockwave.

Half of his katana? Then it is certaitnly less impressive then Kisame's sword.

A Katana is half as thick, half as long, and much sharper. It'd take much more force to drag Kisame gigantic sword through the ground itself at such a speed. Also, Kisame's sword doesn't cut, it shaves. So it's not just cutting through the ground, it's actually forcing it's way through the ground via brute force. A much higher showing of strength then moving a katana through the ground, or slicing through a hollow building.

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
Half of his katana? Then it is certaitnly less impressive then Kisame's sword.

A Katana is half as thick, half as long, and much sharper. It'd take much more force to drag Kisame gigantic sword through the ground itself at such a speed. Also, Kisame's sword doesn't cut, it shaves. So it's not just cutting through the ground, it's actually forcing it's way through the ground via brute force. A much higher showing of strength then moving a katana through the ground, or slicing through a hollow building.

He uses REVERSE blade sword. He's using the BLUNT edge of his sword to perform the move, not the blade (which is on the inside arc) He's NOT cutting through the ground. He's forcing it, too. And, I'm supposed to be impressed by a guy who's vastly stronger than Kenshin, using a sword that actually has edges to do a similar feat? Try again.

And cutting through a hollow building with one nonchalant stroke is more impressive than moving a sword through the ground, especially considering the width of the building.

The width of the building is nothing impressive, if said person has a humongous ass sword.

And wither or not it's done by a weaker person is irrelevant, it's much easier to do with a skinny sword thats not all the way in the ground, like Kenshins, a opposed to Kisame's much larger sword. And again, using the blunt end is still irrelevant due to how skinny and deep the sword is in the ground. And Kisame's sword doesn't cut through things, it shaves, so in essence it's the equivalent of dragging a baseball by the handle through several feet of dirt, quite a hard thing to do, considering that this baseball is also more then half the size of the person himself, as opposed to kenshin's skinny, short Katana.

Cutting a building in half with a thin blade is all of a sudden not impressive? You must have some high standards, because in my book, that qualifies as retarded amounts of strength.

Shaving is a form of cutting. The edge of Kisame's hameda sword is serrated, much like a saw. Only, in it's case, the entire blade is like that of a saw. It's actually easier, considering his impressive strength, to drive a sword that has cutting edges all on it, then dragging it across the floor. The reverse blade is smaller, easier to handle, and lighter, but the fact that a weak man like Kenshin can shove it into the ground, similarly drag it forward and out with such speed that it produces a shockwave is just as hard, if not slightly less. Proportionately, Kenshin has to work harder here. He has less strength, NO edge, and moves it at a faster speed.

Cutting a building like a hot knife through butter is far more impressive than dragging a sword through the ground. That's not even taking into consideration the type of soil the ground was composed of.

The thing I find most impressive about Kenny's building-cutting feat is that his sword hardly if ever, touched the building at all. All he did was awing his sword in that direction and some shockwave or other caused the building to split.

if kenpachi is the strongest captain and can beat kisame now when kenpachi achieves shotai and bankai he will be unbeatable

What you guys are saying doesn't evne make sense. The sword isn't just under the ground. He is too. He is borignthrough the ground almost faster than most people cna run and his sword is effortlessly carvign through packed earth like cheesecloth.

I wouldn't go so far as saying that Kenpachi cutting a buildign in half isn't impressive but this shit aobut it beign more impressive than what Kisame is just screams serious bias.

Don't evne try to drag some quasi-physics gibberish into this, both of these feats are ridiculous. From where I'm standing what Kisame is doing is much more impressive but considering that Kenpachi's sword isn't evne long enough to acutally cut through the building its still hell impressive to do it with a simple backhand stroke like he did.

I love both these guys but I'm backing Kisame on this cause he is stronger, faster and just as ruthless. Kenpachi's main advantage is that his damage soak is ridicoulous and it might take Kisame seeral tries to actually damage him. Could go either way but I'll bet on Kismae 7/10.

Actually, to be honest, I like Kisame. I like his "I just wanna chew some bubble gum or kick some ass, and I'm all outta bubble gum" attitude. And when he wtfpwned Naruto when he was trying to summon Kyuubi chakra, he came one of my favourites.

I like both, they are probably my fave characters in their respective shows, and they are also very alike in ways. Also, one thing people fail at realizing, Kenny's sword isn't even SHARP. It's all cracked and broken looking. He casually cut a building in half with a swing(That as Accel pointed out, barely, if at all, touched it) with said broken sword, and was knocking buildings over with his reitsu as well. Also, is there really any surprise that Kisame, who is the second strongest in the show in terms of physical strength, could do that? Oh, and before I forget, Naruto did almost the same thing against Neji, is Naruto stronger than Kenny as well? Kenny kicked Tosen thru a building, cut one in half, and with one hand grabbed Ichigo's sword by the blade with one hand, and pulled him in to try and stab him(Ichigo by this point had a great degree of physical might as well, as shown when he blocked the giant's axe). Also, I agree, they may be about equal in brutality. Kenny IMO is stronger tho, he is quick enough to block attacks from Kisame, MUCH more durable and has much greater damage soak. I say Kenny from what we have seen, tho in water, Kisame will of course win.

the biggest problem here is that people are UNDERESTIMATING kenshin.

kenpachi uses reitsu channeled through his blade to cut. he doesnt FORCE the blunt edge to rip apart things considering how clean his cuts can be. as for the building, its no huge feat at all. consider, a width of a large katana{so we can eevn disreguard blunt or not} is about 3/4th of a centimetre at max. and the fact that the building has kargely empty non structural areas with few structural and dense materials{e.g. concret/steel} if compacted together, the cross section of even the twin towers wudnt look more than the width of an average person's 4 bedroom house. tha is basically what kenpachi cut through. the length andf width of a 3-4 bedroom house and the height of less than a centimetre. also it is easier to cut through{in the real world} because it has structural uniformity and rigidity as opposed to softness. it also is not overall as hard or strong as earthen rocks. now, kisame not only RIPPED THROUGH a long length of the earth. but the width and height f the ripping was hisbodt and the frontal durface area of his samehada{which is larger than an average man}. plus samehada has a chark skin texture which wud act as a deterrant to slicing, and hinder him. plus he wasnt using reitsu{maybe chakra but we cant be positive}. so we have th cutting of the volume of the length x width of a house x the height of less than a centimetre, all ctructurally uniform more or less and rigid enough to be CUT in crystalline angles. plus kenpachi is using reitsu. vs. the bashing/cuttiong of the volume of height of kisame+samehada x width of kisame+samehada x length of the rather large distance he travelled and forced underground, through non uniform/strong /non uniform/very dense rocks which can not be CUT in crystalline clean slices and the fact that samehada isnt a cutter and that he wasdnt using straight out chakra to do it{poossibly}. put limits and extremely generous estimates in favour of kenpachi, but still., kisame's feat can be easily calculated and seen to be much more impressive than kenny. plus the speed of his 30% clone who was much weakers than 30% in chakra and sendurance etc can be seen to be greater than kenpachi against gai etc after shippuden. same with strength. i personally like zaraki more, but kisame is cool too and currently he wins.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
the biggest problem here is that people are UNDERESTIMATING kenshin.

kenpachi uses reitsu channeled through his blade to cut. he doesnt FORCE the blunt edge to rip apart things considering how clean his cuts can be. as for the building, its no huge feat at all. consider, a width of a large katana{so we can eevn disreguard blunt or not} is about 3/4th of a centimetre at max. and the fact that the building has kargely empty non structural areas with few structural and dense materials{e.g. concret/steel} if compacted together, the cross section of even the twin towers wudnt look more than the width of an average person's 4 bedroom house. tha is basically what kenpachi cut through. the length andf width of a 3-4 bedroom house and the height of less than a centimetre. also it is easier to cut through{in the real world} because it has structural uniformity and rigidity as opposed to softness. it also is not overall as hard or strong as earthen rocks. now, kisame not only RIPPED THROUGH a long length of the earth. but the width and height f the ripping was hisbodt and the frontal durface area of his samehada{which is larger than an average man}. plus samehada has a chark skin texture which wud act as a deterrant to slicing, and hinder him. plus he wasnt using reitsu{maybe chakra but we cant be positive}. so we have th cutting of the volume of the length x width of a house x the height of less than a centimetre, all ctructurally uniform more or less and rigid enough to be CUT in crystalline angles. plus kenpachi is using reitsu. vs. the bashing/cuttiong of the volume of height of kisame+samehada x width of kisame+samehada x length of the rather large distance he travelled and forced underground, through non uniform/strong /non uniform/very dense rocks which can not be CUT in crystalline clean slices and the fact that samehada isnt a cutter and that he wasdnt using straight out chakra to do it{poossibly}. put limits and extremely generous estimates in favour of kenpachi, but still., kisame's feat can be easily calculated and seen to be much more impressive than kenny. plus the speed of his 30% clone who was much weakers than 30% in chakra and sendurance etc can be seen to be greater than kenpachi against gai etc after shippuden. same with strength. i personally like zaraki more, but kisame is cool too and currently he wins.

When did Kenpachi use reiatsu to cut that building? He performed that move as a showcase of his strength. He didn't use reiatsu until later on in the fight. Eh, show me a site where I can some Bleach scans... I dunno how to refer to it otherwise.

it is a well known fact that kenpachi can cut in spite of the blunt edge because of his absolutely enormous amount of reitsu.

What about Kenny's other strength feats? Oh, and reitsu amps strength as well btw. When Kenny had the eyepatch on, he was able to grab Ichigo's sword and jerk Ichigo towards him to stab him, a weaker Ichigo than this stopped a 30-50 foot giant's axe with one hand. Kenny also kicked Tosen thru a building. 😄 Also, why did you type a huge all but unreadable word quilt? I hurt my eyes reading that shit. Also, Kenny's running speed can't compare with Kisame's, but striking speed is about even. Also, Kenny's durability and damage soak is MUCH higher than Kisame's. His reitsu is larger than Kisame's chakra too. Also, Kenny has displayed more strategic fighting than Kisame when he wants to.

On a side note, I think that if Kenny learned his sword's name, and mastered his bankai, he would be the strongest character in the series, if he learned how to use kido and shyunpo, he would be overpowered.

He would be virtually omnipotent.

Originally posted by Sol Valentine
He would be virtually omnipotent.