Church vs Bible?

Now as we all know the books which make up the New Testament were written between say 30-40 years after Christs death. There was no real definitive Canon of Scripture until the 19th Century at the Council of Trent.

So, the Bible was made up by the Church! The Church wasn't made by the Bible...therefore does that not mean Christian Tradition has supremacy over Sola Scriptura?

Discuss further please.

(I've kept this one shorter than the last one)

Just for clarification on the two positions Wikipedia had this to say:

Sola scriptura (Latin ablative, "by scripture alone"😉 is the assertion that the Bible as God's written word is self-authenticating, clear (perspicuous) to the rational reader, its own interpreter ("Scripture interprets Scripture"😉, and sufficient of itself to be the final authority of Christian doctrine.

Sola scriptura may be contrasted with Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox teaching, in which doctrine is authentically taught by the legitimate teaching authority of the Church which draws on the Deposit of Faith which consists of Sacred Tradition, of which Sacred Scripture is a subset.

To me, it seems Luther and chums didn't like the rules in place...so tried a clean slate with making up all this Scripute Alone rubbish...but thats just me.

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
Now as we all know the books which make up the New Testament were written between say 30-40 years after Christs death. There was no real definitive Canon of Scripture until the 19th Century at the Council of Trent.

So, the Bible was made up by the Church! The Church wasn't made by the Bible...therefore does that not mean Christian Tradition has supremacy over Sola Scriptura?

Discuss further please.

(I've kept this one shorter than the last one)

Just for clarification on the two positions Wikipedia had this to say:

To me, it seems Luther and chums didn't like the rules in place...so tried a clean slate with making up all this Scripute Alone rubbish...but thats just me.

Yes, I would agree that Christian tradition is more important then the bible.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Yes, I would agree that Christian tradition is more important then the bible.

Indeed, for all intents and purposes the Bible is actually part of Tradition after all, Canon has and can change.

Besides you can't fit every message into one book, only the really important ones so it seems obvious that some things would be the teaching of Paul or Peter but not make it into Canon. I.e. Assumption of Mary or Primacy of Peter etc.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Yes, I would agree that Christian tradition is more important then the bible.

I concur.

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
Indeed, for all intents and purposes the Bible is actually part of Tradition after all, Canon has and can change.

Besides you can't fit every message into one book, only the really important ones so it seems obvious that some things would be the teaching of Paul or Peter but not make it into Canon. I.e. Assumption of Mary or Primacy of Peter etc.

The problem I have is when people take the bible out of context and come up with really strange and scary beliefs.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
The problem I have is when people take the bible out of context and come up with really strange and scary beliefs.

Like "God hates F A Gs?

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
Like "God hates ****"?

Or that God needs.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Or that God needs.

Ahh...the lonely creator...

Luther used to flog himself because of his guilt, poor man trying to please god. Of course the Mother Church wouldn't take kindly to his 95 Theses he posted to the door. The 6th along with others would make the Pope only a man and not the voice of god.

6. The pope cannot remit any guilt, except by declaring that it has been remitted by God and by assenting to God's remission; though, to be sure, he may grant remission in cases reserved to his judgment. If his right to grant remission in such cases were despised, the guilt would remain entirely unforgiven.

10. Ignorant and wicked are the doings of those priests who, in the case of the dying, reserve canonical penances for purgatory

Of course you could buy a pardon too...

42. Christians are to be taught that the pope does not intend the buying of pardons to be compared in any way to works of mercy.

http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/wittenberg/luther/web/ninetyfive.html

Originally posted by debbiejo
Luther used to flog himself because of his guilt, poor man trying to please god. Of course the Mother Church wouldn't take kindly to his 95 Theses he posted to the door. The 6th along with others would make the Pope only a man and not the voice of god.

6. The pope cannot remit any guilt, except by declaring that it has been remitted by God and by assenting to God's remission; though, to be sure, he may grant remission in cases reserved to his judgment. If his right to grant remission in such cases were despised, the guilt would remain entirely unforgiven.

10. Ignorant and wicked are the doings of those priests who, in the case of the dying, reserve canonical penances for purgatory

http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/wittenberg/luther/web/ninetyfive.html

*cough* Papal Supremacy

So we're to believe the people of earth that lived thousands of years ago, rather than the word of God?!

Some nice ideas, but the Bible is the only thing holding the facade together, the one coherent rallying point for organization among Christians...strip it of its importance and Christianity would become marginalized into obscurity in a hurry.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
So we're to believe the people of earth that lived thousands of years ago, rather than the word of God?!

Some nice ideas, but the Bible is the only thing holding the facade together, the one coherent rallying point for organization among Christians...strip it of its importance and Christianity would become marginalized into obscurity in a hurry.

if you look at the state of christianity its degenerating. factions just keep splitting. im waiting for it to collapse

Originally posted by DigiMark007
So we're to believe the people of earth that lived thousands of years ago, rather than the word of God?!

Some nice ideas, but the Bible is the only thing holding the facade together, the one coherent rallying point for organization among Christians...strip it of its importance and Christianity would become marginalized into obscurity in a hurry.

The Bible was compiled by the Church...Protestant Christianity would collapse yes, but the RCC and EOC would continue as it has...

If the Bible is the word of God it is only the word of God through the Church...which made it.

mis-post.

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
Well...considering there are more than ever now...

exactly. even the factions are splitting! mormonism haas so many diff sects its just funny now.

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
*cough* Papal Supremacy

Originally posted by debbiejo
Yeah, it was still corrupt. 😂

This is very true...

If I ignore you know who...will he just go away?

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
This is very true...

If I ignore you know who...will he just go away?

Jesus makes the Church......Church makes Bible....how can the Bible overtake the Church?

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
Now as we all know the books which make up the New Testament were written between say 30-40 years after Christs death. There was no real definitive Canon of Scripture until the 19th Century at the Council of Trent.

So, the Bible was made up by the Church! The Church wasn't made by the Bible...therefore does that not mean Christian Tradition has supremacy over Sola Scriptura?

Discuss further please.

(I've kept this one shorter than the last one)

Just for clarification on the two positions Wikipedia had this to say:

To me, it seems Luther and chums didn't like the rules in place...so tried a clean slate with making up all this Scripute Alone rubbish...but thats just me.

That reminds me, wasn't Jesus supposed to have said something along the lines of Church being redundant, as God is everywhere, and not in 4 walls...
I could be mistaken, although I recall being told about that.