Originally posted by Newjak
True but it does give you Thor's strength and a butt load of Magic something that Flash will not have.
The Surfer is already class 100 and can amp to incalculable levels.
And (almost) anything Thor can do with magic, the Surfer can do with the power cosmic - but even easier.
Originally posted by nimbus006
I dont see what advantages Mjolnir brings to Surfers powerset. He already has most of the abilities that Mjolnir would give him. Except maybe control of the weather, but in a fight like this weather won't be much of a factor.
You ever heard of The Keeper? Basically that's what kind of power stacking Surfer will do if he gets Mjolnir. You don't need extra abilities, just to have an "advantage". And control of the weather? wtf.
Originally posted by Evolve
And control of the weather? wtf.
Huh yes he can control weather,
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Thor/thortimecontrol.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/DieHulkDie08.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Thor/thorhurricane.jpg
Complements of Llagorak.
Surfer does not win without Mjolnir. People are underestimating what a GL ring brings to the table against anyone. I like Thor as much as the next person, but used by the best GLs, GL ring > Mjolnir in my opinion. The only question is whether or not Flash has the mental capacity to match the best GLs.
As for Surfer + Mjolnir, how exactly would the Odinforce amp him? It is not a demeaning remark. I am genuinely curious. If it augments the PC like the quantum bands did, then he would probably take the majority. Anything less, and a good argument can be made for Flash.
Originally posted by Ouallada
Surfer does not win without Mjolnir. People are underestimating what a GL ring brings to the table against anyone. I like Thor as much as the next person, but used by the best GLs, GL ring > Mjolnir in my opinion. The only question is whether or not Flash has the mental capacity to match the best GLs.As for Surfer + Mjolnir, how exactly would the Odinforce amp him? It is not a demeaning remark. I am genuinely curious. If it augments the PC like the quantum bands did, then he would probably take the majority. Anything less, and a good argument can be made for Flash.
I think Flash on his own can give surfer a hell of a fight. A GL ring in flash's hand would be insane. Millions if not trillions of creative constructs in seconds. Fight scenarios and machine able to wipe out any matter, send souls to heaven, ect. Entire squandrons of JLA members created from nothing. All while Flash is now flying at superluminal lvls.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I think Flash on his own can give surfer a hell of a fight. A GL ring in flash's hand would be insane. Millions if not trillions of creative constructs in seconds. Fight scenarios and machine able to wipe out any matter, send souls to heaven, ect. Entire squandrons of JLA members created from nothing. All while Flash is now flying at superluminal lvls.
I agree that Flash will give most herald levels a good fight and beat the lower level ones as well. Which is also why I said that people saying that surfer beats Flash without Mjolnir are blinkered, because it is not going to happen. However, based on what we have seen from the Keeper, it can be argued that if Mjolnir were to work the same way as the quantum bands, surfer + Mjolnir > keeper, because Mjolnir is likely> quantum bands.
Flash could hypothetically do all that you mentioned, but I'm not sure if he would be able to upkeep the constructs mentally, and some of those feats, like the creation of JLA members were performed by the top GLs, whose level Flash is likely not able to attain.
Originally posted by Ouallada
I agree that Flash will give most herald levels a good fight and beat the lower level ones as well. Which is also why I said that people saying that surfer beats Flash without Mjolnir are blinkered, because it is not going to happen. However, based on what we have seen from the Keeper, it can be argued that if Mjolnir were to work the same way as the quantum bands, surfer + Mjolnir > keeper, because Mjolnir is likely> quantum bands.Flash could hypothetically do all that you mentioned, but I'm not sure if he would be able to upkeep the constructs mentally, and some of those feats, like the creation of JLA members were performed by the top GLs, whose level Flash is likely not able to attain.
depends. Wally's will power seems to me as strong as any GL. he's ran out of the speed force before and raced against death and to save the planet. Plus he will have an infinite amount of time to learn to use the ring in two weeks.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
depends. Wally's will power seems to me as strong as any GL. he's ran out of the speed force before and raced against death and to save the planet. Plus he will have an infinite amount of time to learn to use the ring in two weeks.
Fair enough, but I'm not sure if those feats = willpower. I agree with the prep, but surfer can arguably do more with the two weeks, and a GL ring isn't something you learn to use in my opinion. It places more limits on one's mental capacities than Mjolnir.
Surfer can stop time himself, I assume that the weeks of prep don't include having yanky powers to give you more prep.
This battle is good, the ring may prevent Flash to get punked easily by destroying his spiritual self, his mind or any other cheap way out in which Surfer owns him 9/10. The problem is that I have not seen proof that Flash can make a good use of the ring, which can easily make him a crappy lantern and turn this to the benefit of the Surfer.
I'd actually still take Surfer. I find this whole "Surfer doesn't fight at that speed, he only travels that fast" argument severely flawed for the simple fact that even though Surfer hasn't been depicted throwing punches at light speed, he can still dodge, travel, and maneuver at warp speeds, and he's pin point accurate, meaning he can fly circles around his opponent without them harming him at top speed. So while he may not be depicted barraging characters with billions of punches, he could still dodge and maneuver around anything that could be thrown at him and blast the hell out of his target while doing so, as he has been depicted doing on panel.
Surfer wouldn't need Mjolnir.
