Originally posted by seaapple
Batman?(He may be the world's greatest detective but honestly he is no cosmic schemer). If he can help here his foes should be been taken out long ago.
I dunno about that his prep seems to be useful in dealing with beings as powerful as Darkseid. I dont think Darkseid is as powerful as a Celestial but Bats is not a liability. Apparently Bats has outbribed Lex Luther and has hands on God tech. I think the scans show this but im not too sure, as far as I know God tech can affect time and space.
http://img104.imagevenue.com/view.php?loc=loc99&image=391_batubertoys1.jpg
Ermm just go here. Nuff said.
http://members.tripod.com/agent0x7/dkmind2.html
Basically Bats is the gadgetter for the JLA and that involves have to dealing with alien tech. Bats could be a cosmic schemer if he wanted to.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Furthermore I dont even think CIS has anything to do with it. The items that Doom obtained enbaled him to have enough power to beat G.
CIS has everything to do with it technically Doom should never be capable of using any technology against Galactus because of Galactus Cosmic Awarness.
Originally posted by Alfheim
I dont see what the problem is here. The scans show that Doom is smart enough to obtain these items...thats the point.
Yet we doesn't know the lenght of time he used to aquiere the said Items. Unless of cause that those who has them is just going to hand them over.
Yes I know he got them back, but the fact that Doom was able to take the power from a being more powerful than a Celestial means he is at least smart enough to use prep to beat at least 1 Celestial.[/B]
Yes he is smart enough to use prep all I'm pointing out is that so far no beings in the entire Universe has been capable of stopping the Celestials, and He could possibly use tech to take on down with a little luck seeing as how the Celestials normally struggle just to slay there own I would say he has to come up with somthing quiet extrodenary.
I think CIS is allowed in debates but even if that were included Doom hs outsmarted other powerful beings as well.[/B]
Okay didn't know that thought it was excluded from debates, again beings at Galactus levels that posesses omniscience shouldn't be fooled by Doom.
Well lets put it this way...is a watcher powerful enough to take on a Celestial, because if they are that means they should know a way to beat Celestals. Hell Uatu may not have told Reed how to beat the Celestials but looking at there powerset they should know how. Thats like saying that eventhough Cap can beat Spiderman he cant think of way how to beat him. Hell didnt the Celestials actually have to "power up" to beat the Watchers?[/B]
A single Watcher is probably powerful enough to engage a Celestial and also probably win some fights but basically I think a Celestial would take a 6/10 and possibly higher depending on which Celestial in question. If they knew how to beat them don't you think they would have done so already??? Exitar had to power up to eliminate all the watchers from the 616 Universe (don't know if they where gathered on the planet ore scattered) still a feat that Exitar quiet easily dispatched The One
I never said smarter than Doom its just some of them seem just as smart. The Master doesnt have prep showings as good as Doom but some of his showings are just as good as Doom and some of them seem better, same could be said for the others. Overall though Doom has the highest. [/B]
None argueing there Doom certainly has the upperhand in prep.
To be fair looking at how Doom defeat Big G in Secret Wars isnt anything that The Master, Batman, Promothues or Apoaclypse could do furthermore lets look at how Dr Doom beat Big G one time:[/B]
I have a hard time seeing as how any of the others could have gained access to Taa II and then use Klaw to draw Galactus energy to themselves, and Klaw could only be used because he had spend time on Taa II.
Cosmic cube. Didnt AIM create the cosmic cube. Whats stopping any of the other from obtaining a cosmic cube?[/B]
Well the LT's ruling for one.
Terrigen Mist. Whats stopping any of the others from gaining Terrigen mist. Hell didnt Apoc beat all of the Inhumans once?[/B]
Black Bolt perchance
Watchers tech. Hell Uatu is helping them.[/B]
And he still have his non inteferance restriction, I don't know who you meant that but I read it in such a way that he can help them with the prep analyse items and so forth if he gaved them the watchers tech that would be inteference wouldn't it.
No not if you have the others and Uatu helping you.[/B]
So if I have this team helping me I could use the SS powers to defeat Galactus is that what you are saying???
How are they undeaftable when Doom has beaten people more powerful than The Celestials? How are they undeaftable when Thanos has taken control of the whole uiniverse.[/B]
Maybe because that only two times in all of marvel history has a Celestial been killed and that was by the Heart of The Universe and by the people of earth in a far future. That alone along with the fact that a poor showing is a town in siberia for them pretty much makes them seems undeaftable to me.
Yes I know Thanos isnt on the team but something tells me that my team could beat Thanos.[/B]
So Team > Thanos > Celestials ????
How are they unddeaftable when they had to prep thousands of years to beat the Watchers? If you are powerful enough to make an opponent prep that means they are not invincible.[/B]
Eons, friend and we doesn't know how they measure time it could be like a minute for them.
G is more powerful than a Celestial. [/B]
Hell yearh 🤘
Originally posted by Utrigita
Yet we doesn't know the lenght of time he used to aquiere the said Items. Unless of cause that those who has them is just going to hand them over.
Well for starters Uatu is helping them, so yes Watcher tech is going to be handed over. It should be pretty easy from there to gain terrigen mist as for the cosmic cube that seems a little tricky because you said something later about the LT's ruling.
Originally posted by Utrigita
Yes he is smart enough to use prep all I'm pointing out is that so far no beings in the entire Universe has been capable of stopping the Celestials, and He could possibly use tech to take on down with a little luck seeing as how the Celestials normally struggle just to slay there own I would say he has to come up with somthing quiet extrodenary.
Again Big G and The Beyonder are more powerful than the Celestials if Doom can do that on his own he is bringing enough prep to at least beat 1 Celestial.
Originally posted by Utrigita
Okay didn't know that thought it was excluded from debates, again beings at Galactus levels that posesses omniscience shouldn't be fooled by Doom.
As far as I know its not unless the thread starters conditions change it.
Originally posted by Utrigita
A single Watcher is probably powerful enough to engage a Celestial and also probably win some fights but basically I think a Celestial would take a 6/10 and possibly higher depending on which Celestial in question. If they knew how to beat them don't you think they would have done so already???
Well you just stated that a Watcher could beat a Celestial, should I leave it at that? Furthermore were not talking about the whole Celestila race were talking about one-on-one and or the 4th Celestial host. Im sure one Watcher could beat or destory one Celestial but destroying the whole race is another matter entirely. Uatu is not engaging in the battle but im sure his prep skills are enough to beat at least 1 Celestial.
Originally posted by Utrigita
Exitar had to power up to eliminate all the watchers from the 616 Universe (don't know if they where gathered on the planet ore scattered) still a feat that Exitar quiet easily dispatched The One
Whoa what do you mean Exitar? Didnt Exitar have other Celestaisl helping him didnt he need several thousand years prep in order to beat The One?
Originally posted by Utrigita
I have a hard time seeing as how any of the others could have gained access to Taa II and then use Klaw to draw Galactus energy to themselves, and Klaw could only be used because he had spend time on Taa II.
Well it was ages ago so I cant remember everything.
Originally posted by Utrigita
Well the LT's ruling for one.
So how did Doom get hold of it then? At any rate if crummy AIM can create a cosmic cube then im pretty sure the whole of my team could
Originally posted by Utrigita
Black Bolt perchance
Well how did Apoc enslave the Inhumans? If he can do that he can get hold of terrigen mist, even if he cant my team can?
Originally posted by Utrigita
And he still have his non inteferance restriction, I don't know who you meant that but I read it in such a way that he can help them with the prep analyse items and so forth if he gaved them the watchers tech that would be inteference wouldn't it.
Er what non-intereferance restriction? He just cant actually engage in the actual battle but he helps with the prep. How would giving them watcher tech be interfereing? Didnt I say that he helps with the prep? Isnt giving them tech helping with the prep? Wouldnt Doom use his tech in the prep, wouldnt Apoc use his tech in the prep, why is it all of a sudden Uatu giving them Watcher tech intefering?
Originally posted by Utrigita
So if I have this team helping me I could use the SS powers to defeat Galactus is that what you are saying???
Sorry you dont get it. That is Celestial tech, regardless of how you look at it with enough intelligence you can gain insight on how the Celestials work. For example a person can gain military technology that person can analyse it see where it came from and how it got made etc and therefore can gain insight on the enemy. Apoc is not powerful enough to do this on his own but Uatu is.
Originally posted by Utrigita
Maybe because that only two times in all of marvel history has a Celestial been killed and that was by the Heart of The Universe and by the people of earth in a far future. That alone along with the fact that a poor showing is a town in siberia for them pretty much makes them seems undeaftable to me.
Again Big G is more powerful than the Celestials so is The Beyonder. Doom did that on his own. Hes got a team behind him an Uatu.
Originally posted by Utrigita
So Team > Thanos > Celestials ????
It means that the Celestials are not undeaftable.
Originally posted by Utrigita
Eons, friend and we doesn't know how they measure time it could be like a minute for them.
Yeah and if a eons where a minute that means they would have done it already! Therefore we can conclude that eventhough the Celestials may observe time in a different manner eons is still a long time. The whole purpose of teling us that it was eons was to indicate how powerful Watchers are, they are not just some threat that can be dealt with by waving their hands.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Well for starters Uatu is helping them, so yes Watcher tech is going to be handed over. It should be pretty easy from there to gain terrigen mist as for the cosmic cube that seems a little tricky because you said something later about the LT's ruling.
It just work against the noninterference and the fact that he can only help with the prep, and in my eyes giving a item to the team is helping them. Will get to LT later.
Again Big G and The Beyonder are more powerful than the Celestials if Doom can do that on his own he is bringing enough prep to at least beat 1 Celestial.[/B]
If he can get the power from Galactus it would help him yes but as mentioned before if this is a none CIS Galactus then that isn't gonna happen. And you know that getting the current Beyonders powers in as nothing to the Celestials.
As far as I know its not unless the thread starters conditions change it.[/B]
Okay what about the general forums rules???
Well you just stated that a Watcher could beat a Celestial, should I leave it at that? Furthermore were not talking about the whole Celestila race were talking about one-on-one and or the 4th Celestial host. Im sure one Watcher could beat or destory one Celestial but destroying the whole race is another matter entirely. Uatu is not engaging in the battle but im sure his prep skills are enough to beat at least 1 Celestial.[/B]
No I actually didn't read it again
A single Watcher is probably powerful enough to engage a Celestial and also probably win some fights but basically I think a Celestial would take a 6/10 and possibly higher depending on which Celestial in question. If they knew how to beat them don't you think they would have done so already
A Celestial win 6/10 so how did I just give the win to the watcher???
Whoa what do you mean Exitar? Didnt Exitar have other Celestaisl helping him didnt he need several thousand years prep in order to beat The One?[/B]
Exitar was getting ready to eliminate the entire race of watchers that's why it toke eons to build up the energy required. and he is a part of the fourth host now I come to think about it.
Well it was ages ago so I cant remember everything.[/B]
Read it again then. 😛
So how did Doom get hold of it then? At any rate if crummy AIM can create a cosmic cube then im pretty sure the whole of my team could[/B]
I have no idea but they wouldn't get it if LT's ruling is still function
http://img443.imageshack.us/my.php?image=39822545ho7.jpg
The power from the beyond is only getting in if the LT and other cosmic beings allow it.
Well how did Apoc enslave the Inhumans? If he can do that he can get hold of terrigen mist, even if he cant my team can?[/B]
I don't know who he did it I just find it strange that Black Bolt wasn't more efficient seeing as how he can easily compete with herald level Characters
Er what non-interference restriction? He just cant actually engage in the actual battle but he helps with the prep. How would giving them watcher tech be interfereing? Didnt I say that he helps with the prep? Isnt giving them tech helping with the prep? Wouldnt Doom use his tech in the prep, wouldnt Apoc use his tech in the prep, why is it all of a sudden Uatu giving them Watcher tech interfering?[/B]
Giving them tech is interfering ore have I misunderstood something entirely. When you said help with the prep I thought Strategy getting different items to function in unison and so forth I didn't think acquiring different items in under the non interference.
Sorry you dont get it. That is Celestial tech, regardless of how you look at it with enough intelligence you can gain insight on how the Celestials work. For example a person can gain military technology that person can analyse it see where it came from and how it got made etc and therefore can gain insight on the enemy. Apoc is not powerful enough to do this on his own but Uatu is.[/B]
I do know I just misunderstood you previous post.
Again Big G is more powerful than the Celestials so is The Beyonder. Doom did that on his own. Hes got a team behind him an Uatu.[/B]
with Galactus tech and klaws body and he only got Beyonders power because he previously had analysed Beyonders powers.
It means that the Celestials are not undeaftable.[/B]
Actually they are unless you start looking at some crazy artifacts they haven't been defeated nor driven off in the 616, and it was a question to you. Again
team>Thanos>Celestials??? answer please.
Yeah and if a eons where a minute that means they would have done it already! Therefore we can conclude that eventhough the Celestials may observe time in a different manner eons is still a long time.[/B]
I said that what may have felt like eons to us humans may only be what they feel like a couple of minutes time is a different factor, imagine intelligent life on Jupiter would they look at time like we do???
The whole purpose of teling us that it was eons was to indicate how powerful Watchers are, they are not just some threat that can be dealt with by waving their hands. [/B]
Not the entire race but a single one watcher is no problem, Uatu was powerless to stop monolith even if he wanted to.
Originally posted by Utrigita
It just work against the noninterference and the fact that he can only help with the prep, and in my eyes giving a item to the team is helping them. Will get to LT later.
There is no nonintereference I stated that he helps thelm with prep. Isnt giving them an item helping them with prep?? 🤨
Originally posted by Utrigita
If he can get the power from Galactus it would help him yes but as mentioned before if this is a none CIS Galactus then that isn't gonna happen.
1. CIS is allowed.
2. Even if CIS wasnt allowed Doom is still able to get at least watchers tech and terrigan mist
Originally posted by Utrigita
And you know that getting the current Beyonders powers in as nothing to the Celestials.
Was I refering to current Beyonder?
Originally posted by Utrigita
Okay what about the general forums rules???
What about them?
Originally posted by UtrigitaA single Watcher is probably powerful enough to engage a Celestial and also probably win some fights but basically I think a Celestial would take a 6/10 and possibly higher depending on which Celestial in question. If they knew how to beat them don't you think they would have done so already
You are talking about the whole race thats not what were talkjing about here.
Originally posted by Utrigita
Exitar was getting ready to eliminate the entire race of watchers that's why it toke eons to build up the energy required. and he is a part of the fourth host now I come to think about it.
Actually I think he was getting ready to kill the One not the whole entire race. Anyway they didnt and if an eon was just a minute they would have killed the watchers ages ago.
Originally posted by Utrigita
Read it again then. 😛
Dont make a difference Doom had already found a way to beat Doom before Secret Wars.
Originally posted by Utrigita
I have no idea but they wouldn't get it if LT's ruling is still functionhttp://img443.imageshack.us/my.php?image=39822545ho7.jpg
The power from the beyond is only getting in if the LT and other cosmic beings allow it.
They dont have to get the cosmic cube infinity gems for example. Hell im pretty sure the godess found powerful cosmic artifacts that werent even the infinity gems of the cosmic cubes.
Originally posted by Utrigita
I don't know who he did it I just find it strange that Black Bolt wasn't more efficient seeing as how he can easily compete with herald level Characters
Well he lost in the end but Apoc took BB's whisper and the combined assault from X-factor and other inhumans. Hell Apoc could get the terrigan mist himself.
Originally posted by Utrigita
Giving them tech is interfering ore have I misunderstood something entirely. When you said help with the prep I thought Strategy getting different items to function in unison and so forth I didn't think acquiring different items in under the non interference.
Well what does the word help mean? It doesnt matter if in the comics he can only help in a limited capacity I have stated in this thread that he can help and handing over tech is part of that. If I state at the beginning of the thread that Uatu has a full head of hair Uatu has a full head of hair.
Originally posted by Utrigita
I do know I just misunderstood you previous post.
Ok.
Originally posted by Utrigita
with Galactus tech and klaws body and he only got Beyonders power because he previously had analysed Beyonders powers.
and now he has Celestial tech, Watcher tech, can gain terrigen mist in one second flat most likely (Uatu gets it)....all they need to do is get an item like the cosmic cube. Hell Uatu help Reed get the ultimate nullifer once.
Originally posted by Utrigita
Actually they are unless you start looking at some crazy artifacts they haven't been defeated nor driven off in the 616, and it was a question to you. Againteam>Thanos>Celestials??? answer please.
Basically in terms of prep yes.
Doom: Has temporarily beaten beings more powerful than the Celestials. Thanos has Doom under surveillance because he fears Doom.
Apoc: Tough enough to fight High Evoulutinary (who is sub-skyfather), took the combined effort of X-factor and Inhumans including BB's whisper to beat him and he kept on coming. Already has Celestial tech.
Uatu: Arguably as powerful as a Celestial and has helped Reed Richards beat a being more powerful than the Celestials and has the moist advanced tech.
Kang: Temporarily conquered the earth, something not even Doom has done and has more advanced tech than Doom. Hell conquering earth is arguably more difficult than conquering the Kree or Skrulls when you consider the superheroes and superhuman races thay have on earth including the Eternals.
The Master: Its his tech that saved the earth from Kang and has also been able to gain access to beings that were so dangerous that they were seperated from reality.
Batman: Has tricked Darkseid who has superhuman intelligence and is comparable to Thanos. Can easily modify advanced alien tech.
Promotheus: Almost beat the JLA
My team in 1 year beat the 4th Celestial host and utterly stomp Thanos.
Originally posted by Utrigita
I said that what may have felt like eons to us humans may only be what they feel like a couple of minutes time is a different factor, imagine intelligent life on Jupiter would they look at time like we do???
..and you missed the point. If Doom needed a minute to gain enough power to defeat the fantastic four he would have done it already therefore even Celestial terms an eon is a long time.
Originally posted by Utrigita
Not the entire race but a single one watcher is no problem, Uatu was powerless to stop monolith even if he wanted to.
But still managed to help Reed get the nullifer to stop Galactus. 😬
Last time Alfheim I think we both have made oure points.
Originally posted by Alfheim
There is no nonintereference I stated that he helps thelm with prep. Isnt giving them an item helping them with prep?? 🤨
Then I have misunderstood the term Prep completely. In prep it is always stated that you cannot get that and you cannot get this then I assumed it was the same here that they couldn't just go out and arquire it but they had to rely on the ressources they had at there disposal.
1. CIS is allowed.
2. Even if CIS wasnt allowed Doom is still able to get at least watchers tech and terrigan mist
Okay I didn't read it properly but PIS on the other hand isn't and that is what Galactus is using on a regular basis.
Was I refering to current Beyonder?
Wasn't you??? because I would love to watch how he plans no getting the power of the Pre Retcon Beyonder
You are talking about the whole race thats not what were talkjing about here.
No I'm talking about a single Watcher against a Single Celestial where I believe that A Celestial would win 6/10 possibly higher depending on the Celestial and possibly lower if it was the one.
Actually I think he was getting ready to kill the One not the whole entire race. Anyway they didnt and if an eon was just a minute they would have killed the watchers ages ago.
No Uatu said he had amased enough energi to wipe the Watchers from that reality, they where gathered on a Planet but still a impressive show of power.
Dont make a difference Doom had already found a way to beat Doom before Secret Wars.
Doom had found a way to beat Doom???
They dont have to get the cosmic cube infinity gems for example. Hell im pretty sure the godess found powerful cosmic artifacts that werent even the infinity gems of the cosmic cubes.
Where does the Infinity Gems come from are we talking about they could also get the HOTU???
Well he lost in the end but Apoc took BB's whisper and the combined assault from X-factor and other inhumans. Hell Apoc could get the terrigan mist himself.
I'm just finding it weird when another time Apoc was blow far far far away (possibly destroyed)
Well what does the word help mean? It doesnt matter if in the comics he can only help in a limited capacity I have stated in this thread that he can help and handing over tech is part of that. If I state at the beginning of the thread that Uatu has a full head of hair Uatu has a full head of hair.
Okay as mentioned before that wasn't the way I looked at prep.
and now he has Celestial tech, Watcher tech, can gain terrigen mist in one second flat most likely (Uatu gets it)....all they need to do is get an item like the cosmic cube. Hell Uatu help Reed get the ultimate nullifer once.
So why don't they just go get that instead do you see how large this is you give them a year where they can get every artifact in the entire Universe of cause under these conditions they can defeat the 4th Host.
Basically in terms of prep yes.
We have never seen the Celestials prep anything so you assesment is a little of.
Doom: Has temporarily beaten beings more powerful than the Celestials. Thanos has Doom under surveillance because he fears Doom.
Apoc: Tough enough to fight High Evoulutinary (who is sub-skyfather), took the combined effort of X-factor and Inhumans including BB's whisper to beat him and he kept on coming. Already has Celestial tech.
Uatu: Arguably as powerful as a Celestial and has helped Reed Richards beat a being more powerful than the Celestials and has the moist advanced tech.
Kang: Temporarily conquered the earth, something not even Doom has done and has more advanced tech than Doom. Hell conquering earth is arguably more difficult than conquering the Kree or Skrulls when you consider the superheroes and superhuman races thay have on earth including the Eternals.
The Master: Its his tech that saved the earth from Kang and has also been able to gain access to beings that were so dangerous that they were seperated from reality.
Batman: Has tricked Darkseid who has superhuman intelligence and is comparable to Thanos. Can easily modify advanced alien tech.
Promotheus: Almost beat the JLA
I know about them all, It's just now I see what you mean with prep VERY different from my definition.
My team in 1 year beat the 4th Celestial host and utterly stomp Thanos.
Of cause they stomp Thanos, if they can stomp the Host Thanos is nothing to the host.
..and you missed the point. If Doom needed a minute to gain enough power to defeat the fantastic four he would have done it already therefore even Celestial terms an eon is a long time.
I just mention that time is not the same for all beings, again what we see as thousands of years could be like what we would experience like a couple of seconds, time is a variable factor.
But still managed to help Reed get the nullifer to stop Galactus. 😬
A different situation.
