pagan studies

Originally posted by Alfheim
As far as I know witch burning happened for a short period of time and relatively few "witches" got killed. It seems to me that this was blown all out of proportion.

Wicca was originally founded by Gerald Gardner most likely in the 1940s, first openly revealed in 1954. There' s a lot of information out there on wicca, in books and on the Internet. Not all of it is accurate. You need to separate the wheat from the chaff. If you ask any ten wiccans about their path, you will get at least fifteen different answers.

Wiccans might feel solidarity with the victims of the witch trials, but it' s not a rebellion against Christianity.

Originally posted by Storm
Wiccans might feel solidarity with the victims of the witch trials, but it' s not a rebellion against Christianity.

In some cases 😉

Alfheim is the man, he knows a lot about norse my inherit-age, it is good to see that the old ways dont fade away that people really care about history that concerned our past. Im pleased and proud to see that a Brit take consideration in his time to really study and believe in a way I really thought and considered soly as a scandnavian phenomena good work mate.......doesnt mean you are right though 😈 but even so on behalf of Scandinavians Im flattered

Originally posted by anaconda
Alfheim is the man, he knows a lot about norse my inherit-age, it is good to see that the old ways dont fade away that people really care about history that concerned our past. Im pleased and proud to see that a Brit take consideration in his time to really study and believe in a way I really thought and considered soly as a scandnavian phenomena good work mate.......

Well to be fair though The Saxons used to worship the same gods as well. Thunnur is Thor, Woden is Odin so they are part of heathenism as well. So being British and liking heathen lore is not illogical.

The thing is though both my parents are from W.Africa and my blood ancestors were muslim (not particularly interested in that and I know quite a bit about Islam as well). My tribe is Mandingo and some of my ancestors were portugese (nothing to do with slavery they inter-married). I intend to learn more about my African heritage but usually anything to do with Islam puts me right off, its just not for me. 😐

Originally posted by anaconda

doesnt mean you are right though 😈 but even so on behalf of Scandinavians Im flattered

Most of the time. 😈

Originally posted by Storm
Estimates range from 40,000 to 60,000 people killed across all Europe over an extended period of time.

Well ok where and what time? The burning time is concerned with England and the middle ages. As far as I know there where witch trials in Denmark and even the vikings killed witches.

Originally posted by Storm

Wicca was originally founded by Gerald Gardner most likely in the 1940s, first openly revealed in 1954. There' s a lot of information out there on wicca, in books and on the Internet. Not all of it is accurate. You need to separate the wheat from the chaff. If you ask any ten wiccans about their path, you will get at least fifteen different answers.

Wiccans might feel solidarity with the victims of the witch trials, but it' s not a rebellion against Christianity.

I hear what your saying but I just think your being PC. Heathens suck as well just differently. Basically humans in general suck but how they suck will depend on their faith etc etc.

Originally posted by inimalist
In some cases 😉

Originally posted by Alfheim
Well ok where and what time? The burning time is concerned with England and the middle ages. As far as I know there where witch trials in Denmark and even the vikings killed witches.

The trials were concentrated in central Europe, in Germany, Switzerland, and eastern France. The further you got away from that area, the lower the persecution generally got.

Originally posted by Alfheim
I hear what your saying but I just think your being PC. Heathens suck as well just differently. Basically humans in general suck but how they suck will depend on their faith etc etc.

There are sites floating around the Internet promoting Heathenism as white supremacism. I don' t think you' ll feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that there are people who would regard you as a racist or Neo-nazi. People should make informed decisions, based on multiple perspectives, rather than assume a degree of misinformed prejudice.

Originally posted by Storm

Witchcraft cases increased slowly but steadily from the 14th-15th century. What we think of as the "Burning Times" largely occurred in one century, from 1550-1650. In the 17th century, the great hunt passed, trials dropped sharply after 1650 and disappeared completely by the end of the 18th century.

The trials were concentrated in central Europe, in Germany, Switzerland, and eastern France. The further you got away from that area, the lower the persecution generally got.

Well anyway pagans killed witches and Christians persecuted other Christian sects, so all that proves is that humans like to oppress other humans that they fear or who do not conform to their sense of values. Hell some of the people that got burnt werent even witches.

Originally posted by Storm

No, it bothers me that you claim to have done "a lot of research" on the subject while you can' t separate the wheat from the chaff.

Yeah I can because I know some wiccans have even said that the burning times were blown out of proportion so some wiccans do know their stuff.

Originally posted by Storm

There are sites floating around the Internet promoting Heathenism as white supremacism. I don' t think you' ll feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that there are people who would regard you as a racist or Neo-nazi. People should make informed decisions, based on multiple perspectives, rather than assume a degree of misinformed prejudice.

I dont know any black neo-nazis crylaugh Anyway I get your point 😐 ...but heathens suck as well even the non neo-nazis are racist they're called folkists and believe that people who have germanic blood are more suited to heathenism. One heathen had to actually create a forum because I couldnt find any forums were racist heathens were not allowed....so what now?

Are all heathens racist...no. Are alot of heathens racist....from my experience yes....hell if a guy has to actually go to the extent to create a forum because they're are so many racist forums what does that tell you? I suppose I should just be naive and expect that all heathens are beautfiul human beings.....or should I be realistic and when I meet a heathen ask him questions so I can deduce wether hes racist or not? 😐

Anyway in terms of people killed as witches seems I could be wrong about that also ive heard differently from wiccans themselves. Still not changing my opinion on them as a whole but i'll keep an open mind.

*["When I first stopped being a christian..."]

***You NEVER were a Christian.

Marchello

Proof, evidence? Oh that's right you have nothing once again. Plus, you accomplish nothing with antics such as that. You don't help or insult anyone. You are very insecure to make such assertions and use such rhetoric. You should try doing what the Bible tells you instead of trying to justify your insecurities with theology (which you aren't very good at anyways, though you have arrogantly proven your delusions of grandeur in the matter before).

Originally posted by Marchello
[B]*["When I first stopped being a christian..."]

***You NEVER were a Christian.

Marchello [/B]

well, thank you 🙂

I don't really think so either

Originally posted by Nellinator
Proof, evidence? Oh that's right you have nothing once again. Plus, you accomplish nothing with antics such as that. You don't help or insult anyone. You are very insecure to make such assertions and use such rhetoric. You should try doing what the Bible tells you instead of trying to justify your insecurities with theology (which you aren't very good at anyways, though you have arrogantly proven your delusions of grandeur in the matter before).

***"They went OUT from us, but they were NOT OF us; for if they had been OF US, they would NO DOUBT have CONTINUED with us: but they WENT OUT, that they might be made MANIFEST that they were NOT ALL OF us. But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and YE KNOW ALL THINGS." [1 John 2:19-20].

Marchello

That verse twould only be relevant if one took it out of its context, ie. who was being specifically address (hint: it's not just antichrists either, but specific type).

*["That verse twould only be relevant if one took it out of its context, ie. who was being specifically address (hint: it's not just antichrists either, but specific type)."]

***False teachers are also false believers...and the ONLY difference between them and false congregational believers is that they are in positions of authority but unbelievers nonetheless. These false teachers...anti-christs and their followers [who are ALSO anti-christs who have adhered to their teachings] left...proving that they NEVER really belonged among the Christians in the first place...they were NEVER true believers. If they had been true believers, John stated, "they would have stayed"...but they left.

John faced the false believers head-on by telling the true believers that the Holy Spirit has come upon them and they know the truth. The Holy Spirit has been given to believers by the Father and the Son and promised by Jesus [John 14:16-17;15:26]. When a person becomes a Christian, he/she receives the Holy Spirit [2 Corinthians 1:21-22]. What John is doing here is comparing the believers with the ones [i.e., unbelievers...who are anti-christs] who had left the fellowship...thus proving that they NEVER belonged there. They did not receive Jesus Christ as Saviour...so they did not receive the Holy Spirit...they were not "born again" [John 3].

Marchello

So close at the beginning, but it is dealing only with false teachers. Those that came amongst the Christians for credibility, but went out because they disagreed, not because they changed their minds, hence they were "never of us" because they were never in line in the first place.

There are many children that accept Jesus as their Saviour and later change their mind and reject the Holy Spirit that they had received.

This is why John says:

"But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him." - 1 John 2:5

This something we can see in many believers that have been led astray, which is evidence, though not proof.

"Those who guide this people mislead them, and those who are guided are led astray." - Isaiah 9:16

"Among the prophets of Samaria I saw this repulsive thing: They prophesied by Baal and led my people Israel astray." - Jeremiah 23:13

These makes clear the difference between the two. Those led astray were clearly still saved, but in error as evidenced by Barnabas (Galatians 2:13) and Eve (2 Corinthians 11:3). Being led astray as many are is very very different from not ever being a Christian.

This is why John says:

"But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him." - 1 John 2:5

This something we can see in many believers that have been led astray, which is evidence, though not proof.

Hey this is a thread about paganism......

Originally posted by Alfheim
Hey this is a thread about paganism......

I've always been interested in the various Scandinavian mythologies, probably J.R.R. Tolkien that got me on that train.

Wicca is a religion I'll never understand though. It seems to me that it's a very watered down and rather muddled belief system. Why the people that follow it don't look deeper is beyond my understanding.

Originally posted by Nellinator
True enough.

I've always been interested in the various Scandinavian mythologies, probably J.R.R. Tolkien that got me on that train.

Wicca is a religion I'll never understand though. It seems to me that it's a very watered down and rather muddled belief system. Why the people that follow it don't look deeper is beyond my understanding.

Anyway, from what I've read, Wicca is like "OMG paganism except for the 21st century. Also, we get to talk about the 'Goddess.'"

Or, as our good buddy TheAmazingAtheist said: "Paganism is a religion for people who are literally too stupid for Christianity."

Originally posted by Nellinator

Wicca is a religion I'll never understand though. It seems to me that it's a very watered down and rather muddled belief system. Why the people that follow it don't look deeper is beyond my understanding.

Yeah but when a religon is a mixture of everything it becomes hard to do even if you wanted to. All religons have "foreign" elements to it but you can at least make a good effort in tracing back the roots.

Aflemmmm.......give it a break.

You don't understand the dynamics of progressions in relation to believes. If, however, you are studying a certain believe to the core, because you want to be genuine, then it's best, as with all believe to study it back to its roots. If not, then you are ingaging in the flattery's of New Believes.........Nothing really wrong with that, but YOU need to except that you are not entirely a TRUE worshipper of the original religions. If this is so, then you must ask yourself, ...WHY... why did you reject all the aspects of your old religion....

Originally posted by debbiejo
Aflemmmm.......give it a break.

Awww bless.

Originally posted by debbiejo

You don't understand the dynamics of progressions in relation to believes.

Well as I said every religon has aspects of other religons in them for example Islam has judaism and Chrisanity.

Originally posted by debbiejo

If, however, you are studying a certain believe to the core, because you want to be genuine, then it's best, as with all believe to study it back to its roots.

Which is what im doing.......... 😕

Originally posted by debbiejo

If not, then you are ingaging in the flattery's of New Believes.........Nothing really wrong with that, but YOU need to except that you are not entirely a TRUE worshipper of the original religions.

not sure what you're getting at here I could say that the Vikings were not the true worshippers of the original relgion because they're religon was different from how it was portrayed in the rig vedas.

Originally posted by debbiejo

If this is so, then you must ask yourself, ...WHY... why did you reject all the aspects of your old religion....

Well what do you mean by my old relgion? Chrisanity, Islam, Paganism? My parents are Christian, my ancestors were muslim and before that they were pagans....so which one is my true religon?

Anyway monotheism doesnt appeal to me neither does Arabic culture.